Ultimate Counterpets

[Zaelo]

Just for fun (and out of boredom), I've been trying to find THE "Champion" pet to send against each specific pet families, or as I like to call them, the Ultimate Counterpets.

I haven't gone all that far in my research yet, but I believe I do have a few awesome nominees for some of the Ultimate Counterpet titles.

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Ultimate CRITTER Counterpet
(In other words, the best possible pet to send against a Critter)

This title goes to, in my opinion, the Flayer Youngling.
Being from the Humanoid family, he receives less damage from critters.
On top of his always fun ability Reflection, the Flayer Youngling may use two high damage Beast abilities, perfect for destroying critters; Triple Snap and Rampage.

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Ultimate MECHANICAL Counterpet

Countering Mechanical pets is easy, since Elemental pets both receive less damage from them AND deal more damage to them.
Because of that, almost all Elementals could be nominated here, but since I'm trying to find one true Champion for each category, I will go with the Fel Flame for this one, simply because of his tremendous damage output.
Of course, he'd have to be using the abilities Burn, Immolate and Conflagrate, which would all deal extra damage to Mechanicals.

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Ultimate FLYING Counterpet

The Sprite Darter Hatchling is my nominee for this one.
Being Dragonkin, he receives less damage from Flying abilities.
On top of that, his Moonfire and Arcane Blast abilities are Magic, dealing extra damage to Flying pets.

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Ultimate HUMANOID Counterpet

For this one, I will nominate the Molten Hatchling (or any spider using the same abilities).
There might be a Beast pet out there that can deal more Undead damage, but I have yet to find which one.
For now, the Molten Hatchling makes a good nomine because he receives less damage from Humanoid, and can use Leech Life every other round, which deals extra damage to Humanoids.

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Ultimate MAGIC Counterpet

Maybe not the true Champion here, but the Mechanical Pandaren Dragonling deserves a nomination at least.
For one, he's of course Mechanical, so receives less damage from Magic abilities.
And for two, his Breath ability is Dragonkin and therefor deals extra damage to Magic pets.
It's his only Dragonkin ability though, but I have yet to find a pet better suited for countering Magic pets.

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Ultimate UNDEAD Counterpet

For this one, I nominate any frog/toad pet. To be specific, and just because I prefer his lizard looks, I'll nominate the Horny Toad.
He of course is Aquatic, so takes less damage from Undeads.
His Frog Kiss ability is fun, but to maximize Critter damage, the Horny Toad can go to battle with a heal topped with two Critter offensive abilities, of course dealing extra damage to Undeads.

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Ultimate BEAST Counterpet

Still working on that one, the ultimate choice would be: Flying with Mechanical Abilities

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Ultimate AQUATIC Counterpet

Still working on that one, the ultimate choice would be: Magic with Flying Abilities

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Ultimate ELEMENTAL Counterpet

Still working on that one, the ultimate choice would be: Critter with Aquatic Abilities
(Maybe a snail?)

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Ultimate DRAGONKIN Counterpet

Still working on that one, the ultimate choice would be: Undead with Humanoid Abilities

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So please, share your thoughts and your own nominees if you're interested

[Poofah]

There was a discussion [url=http://www.warcraftpets.com/community/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=828]here[/url], with the conclusions mostly the same. In addition, Jade Owl is a magic pet with flying attacks; Scourged Whelpling is an undead with a humanoid attack (Call Darkness, which is not spammable but is a sizeable nuke).

Beast is the toughest in my opinion: there's no Flyer with a mechanical attack. I think some good options are Darkmoon Zeppelin/Baby Ape/Grunty.

Another interesting question is how to counter popular pets that have cross-over abilities. For example how do you counter [url=http://petbattlearena.com/pet.php?pet=35]Blighthawk[/url]? He's undead, so presumably an aquatic would be good, but Blighthawk also has two flying-type attacks that are strong vs aquatic. You could choose a dragonkin to take less damage from the flying attacks, but dragon damage is weak against undead, and the Blighthawk still has Ghostly Bite that does full damage. This is a toughy.

Another example is the snails -- these are great vs elementals as you suggested, because they're critters and have an aquatic attack (and also an undead attack). Flayer Youngling is great against most critters, but it would actually have a tough time with a snail, since the snail has a shield to drastically mitigate Triple Snap, and it can do undead damage that also heals it back up.

[Zaelo]

Ooh Im sorry I missed that convo, lots of awesome information in both that convo and your reply though thank you!

[Zaelo]

Alright, based on my personnal observations and on other similar conversations, I've got my "Champion's List" completed!

CRITTER: Flayer Youngling
MECHANICAL: Fel Flame
FLYING: Sprite Darter Hatchling
HUMANOID: Molten Hatchling
UNDEAD: Horny Toad
AQUATIC: Jade Owl
ELEMENTAL: Silkbead Snail
DRAGONKIN: Scourged Whelpling
BEAST: Luyu Moth or Clockwork Gnome

For the last one, there's no perfect pet (Flying with Mechanical abilities) to counter beasts, so Im offering 2 different approaches for that one.. Luyu Moth will take less damage from beast abilities, but the Clockwork Gnome will deal more damage against beasts and both have high survivability.

[Ryazan]

Personal World Destroyer is also good against Beasts. He is breed ID leans to power so he will ram most beasts in three turns (Metal Fist - Supercharge - Metal Fist). Supercharge is also a nice ability since it stays until you hit something so you won't lose the buff if your attack gets missed/dodged. He has also self heal but then you can't get Supercharge.
The one big downside is that he is uncommon but that can be fixed in 5.1.

[Quintessence]

In patch 5.1, here are more possible counters:

Flying: Nexus Whelpling, Chrominius (both dragonkin with magic attacks)

Critter: Kun-Lai Runt, Stunted Yeti (both humanoid with beast attacks)

[Hellomynameis]

I used [site] to do a few searches (edit: lol, it's not allowed to link to a competitors useful search engine? Oh well, I guess the secret is safe with me then, since the link gets auto-changed)

Undead with Humanoid Abilities:
-Scourged Whelpling

Critter with Aquatic Abilitires:
-Golden Civet
-Golden Civet Kitten
-Mr Chilly
-Pengu
-Rapana Whelk
-Scooter the Snail
-Shimmershell Snail
-Sifang Otter
-Sifang Otter Pup
-Silkbead Snail

Magic with Flying Abilities:
-Enchanted Broom
-Jade Owl

Flying with Mechanical Abilities:
Doesn't exist

Aquatic with Critter Abilities(I recommend a breed #5 pet with Tongue Lash):
-Biletoad
-Darkmoon Turtle
-Emerald Turtle
-Frog
-Garden Frog
-Horny Toad
-Huge Toad
-Jubling
-Jungle Darter
-Leopard Tree Frog
-Mac Frog
-Mojo
-Rusty Snail
-Small Frog
-Softshell Snapling
-Speedy
-Spiny Terrapin
-Spotted Bell Frog
-Toad
-Tree Frog
-Turquoise Turtle
-Wood Frog
-Yellow-Bellied Bullfrog

... I could go on, but its really easy to search for on the site I linked.

[Sesamee]

Another interesting question is how to counter popular pets that have cross-over abilities. For example how do you counter [url=http://a%20competing%20website.com/pet.php?pet=35]Blighthawk[/url]? He's undead, so presumably an aquatic would be good, but Blighthawk also has two flying-type attacks that are strong vs aquatic. You could choose a dragonkin to take less damage from the flying attacks, but dragon damage is weak against undead, and the Blighthawk still has Ghostly Bite that does full damage. This is a toughy.

Blighthawks are nasty!! I'd say if any pet is in the running for OP they are. They are beatable though and I've beaten them with several team set ups. I've always had to sacrifice a pet to them though. Whittle down, try to dodge the Ghostly Bite and Lift Off (or hope it misses), then when they come back in the fight use a heavy hitter against them. You'll have to swap pets out, a rabbit is good due to all the dodge and they can slowly whittle them down.

When I use mine, believe it or not, he's my sacrificed pet more often then not. I use him to take out the heavy hitter first. And they can since Ghostly Bite is so powerful. Or at least it severely weakens them that a fast pet (and you should have at least one super fast pet on your team) can finish them off.

[Cheeser]

I would just like to call some attention to the Rapana Whelk, I mean 5 diffrent schools on 1 pet!!
That's sick!

[Ryazan]

I would just like to call some attention to the Rapana Whelk, I mean 5 diffrent schools on 1 pet!!
That's sick!

Fledgling Nether Ray: 6 different schools - check mate.

Then again, no avoidance skill nor heal...

[Cheeser]

DAmn cool, his skills just damage though, so I guess he's mostly usefull against countering trainers...

[Poofah]

a rabbit is good due to all the dodge and they can slowly whittle them down.

Totally agree, I think a rabbit is the ideal counter for a blighthawk. I'd be happier running them if they weren't so gosh darned weak. Even with the bonus vs undead, it takes a rabbit 4+ Flurries to kill a Blighthawk (unless you get lucky or run a slower/stronger version of the rabbit). That's a lot of turns that you have to avoid a Ghostly Bite, which hits for more than half your health if it lands. It's especially hard considering that you'll face 2 extra attacks from their rez.

Also, how fast is 'super fast', in your opinion? I find that even the slowest rabbit (293 speed) is faster than almost any popular pet, aside from flyers, which I can't beat on speed anyway (slowest flyer is 366, if you include the racial--the fastest rabbit is 358). There's a handful of dangerous breedID 5s that people use, but I want the rabbit up against their hitter, not their speedy pet. Obviously rabbits are completely awful if they have to go 2nd, so guaranteeing that you go first is pretty important: but it's a big stat tradeoff for the 358 speed. I'm taking a calculated risk and leveling a breedID 7 (only 293 speed, but 30 extra power and 150 extra health).

[Sesamee]

a rabbit is good due to all the dodge and they can slowly whittle them down.

Totally agree, I think a rabbit is the ideal counter for a blighthawk. I'd be happier running them if they weren't so gosh darned weak. Even with the bonus vs undead, it takes a rabbit 4+ Flurries to kill a Blighthawk (unless you get lucky or run a slower/stronger version of the rabbit). That's a lot of turns that you have to avoid a Ghostly Bite, which hits for more than half your health if it lands. It's especially hard considering that you'll face 2 extra attacks from their rez.

Also, how fast is 'super fast', in your opinion? I find that even the slowest rabbit (293 speed) is faster than almost any popular pet, aside from flyers, which I can't beat on speed anyway (slowest flyer is 366, if you include the racial--the fastest rabbit is 358). There's a handful of dangerous breedID 5s that people use, but I want the rabbit up against their hitter, not their speedy pet. Obviously rabbits are completely awful if they have to go 2nd, so guaranteeing that you go first is pretty important: but it's a big stat tradeoff for the 358 speed. I'm taking a calculated risk and leveling a breedID 7 (only 293 speed, but 30 extra power and 150 extra health).

This is a good point and I've thought about the speed vs health and power. But when I look at all my fast pets there are so many that are so much faster than a breed 7 rabbit so I opted to go with a 5. I should probably level a 7 just to have though. My first rabbit was a breed 12 though and I thought he was awesome before I even knew about breeds.

[Hellomynameis]

Also, how fast is 'super fast', in your opinion? I find that even the slowest rabbit (293 speed) is faster than almost any popular pet, aside from flyers, which I can't beat on speed anyway (slowest flyer is 366, if you include the racial--the fastest rabbit is 358). There's a handful of dangerous breedID 5s that people use, but I want the rabbit up against their hitter, not their speedy pet. Obviously rabbits are completely awful if they have to go 2nd, so guaranteeing that you go first is pretty important: but it's a big stat tradeoff for the 358 speed. I'm taking a calculated risk and leveling a breedID 7 (only 293 speed, but 30 extra power and 150 extra health).

My Flayer Youngling #5 with 325 speed are also kinda horrible if it doesnt go first, and I am like you, I would preferably pair it with their heavy hitter instead of competing with their most speedy pet. But I still prefer #5 though. Gl with your wabbit

[Sesamee]

I finally found a Flayer #5! I had a decent breed before but this is a pet that going first is so important. He absolutely tears up other Flayers by going first. I wouldn't call Flayers horrible if they go second but the difference between going first or last is huge.

[Sesamee]

Ultimate BEAST Counterpet

Still working on that one, the ultimate choice would be: Flying with Mechanical Abilities

To counter beasts more often lately I've been choosing hard hitting flyers. They are guaranteed to go first at least when they are above 50% health due to gaining 50% more speed and if they hit hard most of the time a beast can't even get them below 50%. I know it's not a perfect hard/soft counter but it works really well! My flyer choices so far are a Pterrordax Hatchling (one of the best all around pets, IMO), Moth (underestimated pet, I've been very impressed with mine), Brilliant Kaliri (can do some serious damage and Reckless Strike is so good). A nether faerie dragon is really good against other flyers due to the magic damage it can dish out! It's dodge makes it good against everything else, lol!

[Poofah]

I randomly have 4 lvl 25 moths, since they were so good vs trainers. The flying innate ability is especially nasty with a strong/slow breed, since +50% speed basically guarantees you go first even with bottom-of-the-line 244 speed, and they get a lot of benefit from going first (Alpha Strike/Cocoon Strike/Moth Dust moveset). Yellow Moth is the only one that has a breedID 4 (1400 health/341 power/244 speed, once I can stone it up to rare--36 more power than the next best), but it's 50s from a vendor and you can just keep buying and caging until you get a good one. Either this or Gilnean Raven is going to get my first Flyer battle stone.

So basically, yes, I like moths.

Nether Faerie Dragon is another flyer that really gets good mileage from the +50% speed: 341 power on the breedID 4, but still gets 2 turns from his dodge against almost any opponent, while Moonfire hits for 450 followed by Arcane Blast ramping up to 600 (with the +10% from Moonfire).

[Letifa]

Well I don't know about countering, but I find that my Diablo utterly destroys flying pets with call darkness+blast of hatred... shame his HP is so low though

[Darkshroud]

Flyers meet chrominius... Howl on 2 to double damage and surge of power on 3. He's also a dragonkin so he takes reduced damage from what ever flying abilities they have.

[Aquilus]

I am going to have to counter your choice for best flyer counter. Although, Nether Faerie Dragon seems like a great choice 1 on 1, same with chrominium. I am going to have to put my vote for emerald whelpling or emerald proto whelp. These guys will not end a battle as quickly as the previous 2 but can literally solo an endless string of flyers and still be at 90-100% health when done.

Don't believe me? I soloed the Pandaren Air Spirit with my emerald whelpling and he was 90% health at the end. Really long and painful fights but still very powerful nonetheless. There are probably a couple of flyers out there with less multi attacks and a few strong attacks (such as Gilnean Raven/Crow) that would be better countered by nether faerie dragon or chrominium, but the majority are best countered by emerald whelpling or emerald proto whelp. Try it and you will become a believer.

I will also give a tip of the hat to baneling as a powerful critter killer. I wouldn't necessarily say he is better than the flayer youngling, but his combo is quite nasty and tears critters up (and isn't weak against critters with undead attacks). First round you use centrifugal hooks to double your speed for the next 2 rounds. Then you use thrash for 2-3 hits (beast type) and then you use burrow, which in most cases means dodging the next 2 rounds from your opponent (first round because of your speed boost you go first and opponent misses you, then speed boost fades and opponent goes first and misses you then you hit him with burrow). Great combo of attacks (he is magic type for those that are curious).