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Anti undead strategy?

Discuss pet battles, strategy and theorycrafting.
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Sembiance
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Anti undead strategy?

Postby Sembiance » July 3rd, 2017, 3:39 pm

Nearly EVERY team I encounter has at least 1 Undead pet with Haunt. Usually a Wicked Soul or a Ghastly Kid.

What sort of team can I build that will just destroy these Undead pets?

I don't care if I lose every single other matchup, I just want to be able to win every battle against teams with Haunt pets.

I get very frustrated and bored fighting against S/S Wicked Soul and Ghastly Kids all the time. I feel like it's certainly the most OP ability and pet type in the game right now and I'm looking to bring them some pain for a change.

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Flow
 
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Re: Anti undead strategy?

Postby Flow » July 3rd, 2017, 5:18 pm

I think you can use a pet who removes buffs and debuffs from you, such as Sear Magic. Not sure if that will kill the Haunt pet or just dispel it. You can also use a pet which does damage to the next pet to swap into battle, the true power of Haunt is the free swap. Or use an aqua pet, one with a shield will take very little damage. You can also use a fast pet with dodge, Haunt will never land, and if it's a critter it will do bonus damage to the undead.

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Re: Anti undead strategy?

Postby Sile9 » July 4th, 2017, 4:55 am

Due to the free swap there really isn't an all-purpose Haunt counter.

Defensive aquatics are excellent soakers, but having to swap them out will put you at the mercy of burst/Black Claw combo pets such as Bone Serpents and Zandalari raptors and at a sizable disadvantage against Consume Corpse.

Sear/Consume Magic can be effective assuming you are provided the opportunity. CC pets such as Fiendish Imps and Scalded Basilisk Hatchlings can delay a cast to the point of uselessness. It is possible to dispel Haunt on the first turn, though this is risky; if they do a basic attack or Ethereal instead, the counter is lost.

A haunter of your own can clear Haunt, but it needs to connect making for some frustrating mind games against people with evasive pets. A clever opponent will just basic attack your haunt pet below half before haunting into their rabbit or Teroclaw to dodge out the remainder of the health.

You could go with a counterhaunt team. The Ghastly Kid has two Haunt counters as well as Hoof and a high health pool to force Valks and Wicked Souls to Haunt first. Then you just have two pets geared to dispatch the usual suspects: Teroclaws, imps, rabbits, etc.

Haunt will do little against your standard Sunlight team if you have a lot of time on your hands.

Heavy shielding will neutralize most damage sources from your conventional haunt team: DoT ticks and multiattacks. The Anubisath Idol has proven sturdy enough to tank a S/S Wicked Soul's melee and soak the Haunt provided Sandstorm isn't countered. Most Ghastly Kids tend to run Hoof instead of Infected Bite. The Direbeak Hatchling has shielding, speed, and pressure all on its side.

I personally enjoy using a darkness team. S/S Frostfur Rat can Flurry the Wicked Soul before the Haunt and mitigate the damage with Crouch. Call Darkness will minimize any backline healing as well as allow you to segue into a Nocturnal Strike from your power-based flyer against anything faster than the rat.

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Re: Anti undead strategy?

Postby Gráinne » July 4th, 2017, 5:13 am

LOL I sympathise. :)

During the reign of terror Graves and the Evil Undead (feat. MPD), a lot of the time it was more important to me to give them pain than to win. :)

Flow has given you some good tips. [Edit: and oh I see Sile9 has got in before me as well.] Sear Magic, or Cleanse, just dispels the haunter - sends it back to life.

The power of the Haunt is indeed the free swap. It allows your opponent to choose which match-up he wants against your pet.

Any Aquatic will take weak damage. A P/P Emperor Crab can get in a Surge before the Haunt, then take the Haunt, put up its heal and shield, and laugh at it. Or a Crawdad can just nullify the whole thing with a Wish at the end. But Aquatics are very vulnerable to Bone Serpent's Nocturnal Strike, so beware of that.

Any 325 Fox with Flurry, Crouch, Dazzling Dance can take a lot, then speed your team up and do a lot of damage against undead while exhausting the Haunt. Some people prefer a 289 speed P/S Fox, since you're going to Dance your way to speed anyhow.

A 357 Rabbit Flurry, Dodge, Burrow can play mind games all day, while shredding undead.

Like a Crab, a Teroclaw can pretty much nullify the Haunt with its heal, as well as being faster so that the Dodge mind-game gives the haunter a problem.

Those are probably the most straightforward counters to use against Haunters.

I'd suggest you watch some videos from
who face Haunt teams all the time (and sometimes run them too!)

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Vakeetah
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Re: Anti undead strategy?

Postby Vakeetah » July 4th, 2017, 9:22 am

As suicidal as it may sound to soak it with a Humanoid, for some time I've been running my Fiendish Imp with a non-standard moveset.

Usually, you'd run it with Burn/Immolation/Nether Gate (more frontloaded damage, and the ability to gain health in the backline); but you can also run it with Sear Magic/Flamethrower/Nether Gate. Not quite as effective in the rest of circumstances, but forcing swaps, and then dispelling Haunt and Curse of Doom is sweet.
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Re: Anti undead strategy?

Postby Rosqo » July 4th, 2017, 6:32 pm

To counter haunt specifically the wicked soul you can use:
Faster pets with dodge, faster pets with blinds, most aquatics, faster pets with critter damage, faster pets with dots, minefields, to lesser extent ethereal/deflection/feign death and shields/damage reduction
If you want a specific pet I'd use s/s rabbit or teroclaw.
Most of the time when someone plays haunt teams they then either swap you out with an imp or use a pet such a the teroclaw to dodge and tank. It's good to consider that when countering these teams i.e. Have the pet in the top slot do strong damage to an imp.
You are right in that haunt is strong but Bone Serpents, Traps, Teroclaws and Vengeful Porcupettes are all much worse in the current meta.

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Re: Anti undead strategy?

Postby Flow » July 4th, 2017, 6:34 pm

Sile9 wrote:Sear/Consume Magic can be effective assuming you are provided the opportunity. CC pets such as Fiendish Imps and Scalded Basilisk Hatchlings can delay a cast to the point of uselessness. It is possible to dispel Haunt on the first turn, though this is risky; if they do a basic attack or Ethereal instead, the counter is lost.


I would assume you can always dispel because dispel is cast on yourself and not your opponent. In theory it's dispellable in the same round it lands when you are slower, but there are no pets slower than the val'kyr that can do that. An opponent who brings in a faster pet after the Haunt and forces you to swap will counter it.

_

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Re: Anti undead strategy?

Postby Drudatz » July 9th, 2017, 4:56 pm

Have you tried countering them with a Ghastly Kid? (Talents 1, 1, 2)
This way its STRONG against undead and after the Haunt you kick them out with Cosume Magic.

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Re: Anti undead strategy?

Postby Rosqo » July 9th, 2017, 5:44 pm

The kid is definitely one of the best anti haunt pets with that set up. It doesn't work as well if the opponent runs with an imp though because it will port you before the consume magic. You can try and head game it with the preemptive consume magic or predict the swap but it's all pretty risky.

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Re: Anti undead strategy?

Postby Drudatz » July 9th, 2017, 9:02 pm

Rospo wrote:The kid is definitely one of the best anti haunt pets with that set up. It doesn't work as well if the opponent runs with an imp though because it will port you before the consume magic.
Thats why its important to know your team WELL so that you know exactly which pet you switch to so that his port brings back in the kid.

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Re: Anti undead strategy?

Postby Rosqo » July 10th, 2017, 1:12 am

Assuming they go for the port and don't predict the swap. It's why it's a bit more risky than other strategies but it's still viable I mean I've done it lots of times before and it's paid off with only a few times it hasn't.

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Re: Anti undead strategy?

Postby Regnever » August 8th, 2017, 5:42 pm

ss rabbits all day long for anti undead fun.

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Re: Anti undead strategy?

Postby Biscuit » August 8th, 2017, 8:25 pm

When the most recommended method of beating Haunt is to USE Haunt, that just proves it requires tuning.

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Re: Anti undead strategy?

Postby Rosqo » August 9th, 2017, 10:51 am

Brawler haunt is good against haunts simply due to how it interacts with it. I.e. When you haunt it removes the dot.

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Re: Anti undead strategy?

Postby Biscuit » August 9th, 2017, 5:11 pm

Rosqo wrote:Brawler haunt is good against haunts simply due to how it interacts with it. I.e. When you haunt it removes the dot.


Haha Rosqoe, I know why Haunt is good. You're not talking to someone who just started pet battling yesterday.

My point is a larger one:
If you have to use XYZ to beat XYZ, there's a problem with XYZ.

Haunt and Darkness are at the top of the food chain right now.
And when we tell people to use Haunt and Darkness pets of their own to beat those teams, we're only making things worse.
Just my two cents.

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Re: Anti undead strategy?

Postby Rosqo » August 10th, 2017, 3:39 am

Haunt isn't the best way to counter haunt though.

Ghastly kid is strong against haunters because of its dispel/ethereal and critter damage.

Most haunt teams use haunt followed by an imp, dodge or other stall tactic which prevents or delays getting a counter haunt off.

Darkness is soo strong predominantly due to the bone serpent but the weather effect on its on is a top level ability your right there.

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Re: Anti undead strategy?

Postby Biscuit » August 10th, 2017, 8:23 am

Rosqo wrote:Haunt isn't the best way to counter haunt though.

I don't agree and I'm not sure how you can say that yourself.
Firstly, it's too broad a statement.
If we both have 337 Wicked Souls and I bait you into using Haunt first, you're saying Haunt isn't the best choice of action afterwards?
I know that's a specific case, but you were the one who started adding on stipulations like nether gate, stall, dodge, etc.
We've all seen Haunt and stall teams before - they're not new.
My point is that Haunting out of a Haunt is the most ideal situation without having to guess what your opponent is doing.
-Free swap for you
-Clears a DoT
-Puts a DoT on your opponent
-Puts one of their strongest CDs on a 5 round timer
How is that not ideal?
And by your own logic, dispel is worthless if they follow up with an Imp.

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Re: Anti undead strategy?

Postby Rosqo » August 10th, 2017, 11:52 am

The tactic you're suggesting relies on winning head games/rng then being able to land your haunt in the subsequent round. It's just not reliable enough for me I hate the rng of two haunters especially the same speed going head to head but if it works for you it's all good

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Re: Anti undead strategy?

Postby Digem » August 10th, 2017, 12:43 pm

Frogs are the best counter. Aqua take less damage from undead but frogs have a few moves that are super effective like tongue lash and a nice dot in swarm of flies. A couple frogs even have bubble that can negate haunt. Frogs are always my go to.

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Re: Anti undead strategy?

Postby Lordy » August 18th, 2017, 7:20 am

If you are running into multiple Haunt and stall teams just switch to a counter team.

My favourite at the moment is

P/P Emperor Crab 2/2/1 (To Soak the haunt) The valk haunt will do no damage once its shield is up and any damage it does take in the first couple of turns can be easily healed before you pop a darkness)
P/S Northern Hawk Owl 1/1/1 (To take care of their Teroclaw and synergise with the rat)
P/P Blind Rat 1/1/2 (Crouch with the Darkness/Sneak attack combo will make short work of whatever 3rd pet they run. Fiendish imps dont last long against this punchy little critter once their pet swap is used and it can obliterate Bone serpents)

Although a counter team it can hold its own against a lot of other popular pet combo's like those super anoying Porcupette teams.


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