Against new class hall pets!!

[Quintessence]

For the sake of proper discussion and keeping this community open and friendly, let's avoid using the terms "whining/moaning/complaining" and other similar words to describe responses about the DK/Monk pets. Using words with such negative connotation serves no purpose in furthering the conversation.

Every user has the right an opinion and their own personal reaction to these new pets, and they may express it in however manner they wish (so long as it follows User Guidelines and remains civil). If you do not agree, simply move on.

Badpathing, your responses to certain posters have been quite aggressive and combative in tone so please tone it down. (This goes for everyone that's very passionate about their point of view concerning these pets. Please keep it friendly.)

[Quintessence]

Further update on numbers.

Wowhead has a table for AK for the new PTR build

7.2 PTR Build 23623 Artifact Knowledge Scaling, Infinite Artifact Traits, New Emissary Cache Mounts

This brings the AK back closer to the familiar exponential scaling, and increases the factor for AK40 to about 23 from 16.

This leads us to about 17 hours per pet, rather than 21 or 12.

... assuming of course that the AP totals haven't changes as well ...

I'm slightly confused here. 17 hours or days per pet?

And this isn't taking into consideration going from AK 25 to AK 40, which takes time to "learn" from the trainer. Would there be a way to factor that in as well?

There was a point made on Twitter, those not very active on alts will start with AK 20, not 25. So this estimate would mainly apply to an ideal situation where the alt toon starts at AK 25. For characters under AK 25, it'll take (possibly significantly?) longer.

[Gráinne]

17 hours /played per pet.

That assumes, of course, that numbers stay as they are.

I have a fairly light WoW schedule compared to many, so I take it that I will be able to average one hour per day on these alts, hence 17 calendar days to get each of the pets.

Yes, that does not take into account the time waiting to AK40. I now have my DK, at 110, waiting for three or four more AK levels to complete to get him to 25. I'll have to pull my now-74 Monk off Crysa duty and get him to 110. Not looking forward to that. Then they can both wait in the class halls until AK40. I'll send them care packages of OR from Bloods so that I don't have to do anything with them.

At AK40, they can come out and do 6 or 8 World Quests a day, taking an hour per day, to get each pet in 2-3 weeks.

Of course, more time-intensive players may want to get the whole thing done in a couple of days with Maw runs or whatever the new unit will be after the dungeon changes.

[Digem]

You keep digging your heels in here and most of time spouting bad to flat out wrong information. Yes getting to 34 like you said isn't that rough but getting to 43 or maybe higher is.
Have you taken a weapon past 34? Each point takes millions to get and takes more and more each point.
Add in on an alt I don't have time for Lfr. Between real life , wanting to work on my main raiding and running mythic+'s.
Between wait time and actually running Lfr can take an hour or more.
Please try to see this and not just keep spouting off nonsense

Actually, yes, I have two characters at 54, how about you?

And I'm digging my heels in because of comments like yours, constantly trying to shove irrational thinking and whining down throats. What I posted above was never meant to be a complete picture, that was obvious and I'm sorry you missed it. What it DOES however illustrate is that the AP grind currently isn't terrible. And with new AK, etc, it might be a bit worse, or not, but again...not terrible. Stop with the gloom and doom nonsense. The achievement for "all traits unlocked" is NOT earned at 54...

And as for your time; see my earlier comments about the fact that this game isn't made for you. Or me. It's made for everyone. If you don't have time, that's your issue and nothing was signed assuring you that all pet content would fit your world view.

If you read any of my posts you would see I don't even have one weapon to 54 yet. Even on my main it's best spec is only 49. I play at least on average 4 or more hours a day and still it isn't 54. I raid and do mythic +'s and it still isn't. I am 10/10 normal nighthold and 4/10 heroic yet it still isn't. I have over 900 ilevel yet it still isn't. It is a grind add in I keep my off spec near even and alt a druid healed that is 890+ ilevel. I also like to achievement hunt and pet collect as I have over 860 unique pets all max level.
See how the time to max out an Alts weapon on all 3 specs might be rough now?
Also we still don't know what they mean by max out do we? Is it 34? Is it 54? Is it more as new traits and levels are coming in 7.2.
Can you see now how this is daunting?

[Digem]

17 hours /played per pet.

That assumes, of course, that numbers stay as they are.

I have a fairly light WoW schedule compared to many, so I take it that I will be able to average one hour per day on these alts, hence 17 calendar days to get each of the pets.

Yes, that does not take into account the time waiting to AK40. I now have my DK, at 110, waiting for three or four more AK levels to complete to get him to 25. I'll have to pull my now-74 Monk off Crysa duty and get him to 110. Not looking forward to that. Then they can both wait in the class halls until AK40. I'll send them care packages of OR from Bloods so that I don't have to do anything with them.

At AK40, they can come out and do 6 or 8 World Quests a day, taking an hour per day, to get each pet in 2-3 weeks.

Of course, more time-intensive players may want to get the whole thing done in a couple of days with Maw runs or whatever the new unit will be after the dungeon changes.

Maw runs will offer less AP come 7.2 and longer mythics and mythics plus more.
Also higher level mythic plus's will give more AP.
So maw runs won't be as easy to find or as frequently done.
Add in for most these classes will be lower geared Alts and finding runs won't be easy

[Sweetdr0ps]

I also really hate it, they should be cageable, with a limit to buy one per character like the raven etc....

[Gráinne]

Maw runs will offer less AP come 7.2 and longer mythics and mythics plus more.
Also higher level mythic plus's will give more AP.
So maw runs won't be as easy to find or as frequently done.
Add in for most these classes will be lower geared Alts and finding runs won't be easy

This is true. Of course, different people have different levels of resources. Some people have guilds that will happily boost them through their first runs until they have gear enough to stand on their own two feet. Some people play these as main classes, and will be viable by the time we see AK40.

However, I have no special resources with these classes, so I won't get in done in a few days; it will take me 17 hours of dailies. Or 12, or 21, or whatever the numbers turn up.

It could be worse. It is worse, with the PvP pets. It was worse, way worse, unimaginably worse, with Graves, but I didn't see any revolts then.

[Kiella]

I am angry about these new class hall pets in 7.2. I don't want to roll a Monk, Death Knight or a rogue just to get the class hall pets. I rolled a druid, demon hunter and a shaman just to get the pets and hated playing them all. Now I read that they are adding more hall pets in 7.2 to force pet collectors to play yet more classes. I sent a message to blizzard that they need to get rid of these new hall pets or just make them tradable.
One voice wont do any good but if several of us complain about having to play classes we have no interest in maybe they will listen. Its bad enough having to play on the ally side to get the prestige pets but this just stinks having to play classes we have no interest in.
I would like to see all the hall pets tradable and when you get the horde prestige pet you should get the ally one also. If you feel the same way complain to blizzard maybe there is a 1 in a100 chance they will listen if many of us pet collectors stand together.

For the sake of proper discussion and keeping this community open and friendly, let's avoid using the terms "whining/moaning/complaining" and other similar words to describe responses about the DK/Monk pets. Using words with such negative connotation serves no purpose in furthering the conversation.

I understand you have good intentions, Quintessence, but the original poster literally asks people to complain.

[Quintessence]

It could be worse. It is worse, with the PvP pets. It was worse, way worse, unimaginably worse, with Graves, but I didn't see any revolts then.

I think there are a few differences between when Graves was released compared to when/how these new class pets are. (Not that it makes much difference, but just for perspective.)

Graves was implemented during WoD when content wasn't exactly high. There also wasn't a precedence set by another Heroes of the Storm pet; there were no real expectations for that games' rewards.

Collectors are no strangers to having to purchase other Blizzard titles for WoW pets, and I think if Graves had been obtainable by simply purchasing Heroes of the Storm there wouldn't be as big a dislike for Graves (also if this pet wasn't massively overpowered on release....but that's another discussion *cough* >_>)

In Legion, we have a relative over-saturation of content with heavy gating, RNG, grinds, etc. That in itself is probably already wearing some collectors' patience quite thin.

Also the pets that preceded the DK/Monk pets that pretty much set the status quo for class pets. I think it's fair to say no one really expected the next set of class pets to have such requirements, and it took everyone by surprise. Like I noted in another thread, it's only natural for some to have such an extreme response to such an unexpected change.

All of this kind of boiled over with the DK/Monk pets resulting in the outcry we have now. It's not unusual for some to dislike the way a pet is implemented. What's unique about this situation is the severity of dislike as well as the divisiveness.

I think the DK/Monk pets were the final nail in the coffin for some collectors, and rather than accepting that these pets will just require a long grind and/or will be excluded from their collection, they're much more vocal about their dissatisfaction and disagreement.

Which is ok IMO. I'm not expecting to change anyone's mind or have my mind changed. But I'm open to it and won't ignore a valid point. Many of the discussions have been constructive, sharing points of view, and brainstorming suggestions that might be acceptable. And sometimes people just need to express their personal take on it, which may not always be constructive and more just a strong opinion.

We do need to realize though, that despite all of this, it's possible that nothing will change. It's Blizzard's game, it's their decision. All collectors can do is voice their feedback, hope that Blizzard at least hears it, and then move on either in the game or not (if quitting).

[Quintessence]

I understand you have good intentions, Quintessence, but the original poster literally asks people to complain.

And not speaking up about avoiding complaining to Blizzard is an error on my part. I should have noted earlier on in the thread that complaining will not achieve anything, other than getting ignored.

Constructive criticism, feedback, and civil discussion is the direction we should be taking.

If the OP would kindly update their post to reflect this, that would be great. Thanks!

[Paladance]

Hm.

Currently I'm at the starting (not so) Final Ability stage on main, with AP 25, and get on average 1 trait per day as long as I do some dungeons/raiding/50k+ WQs while not forcing myself to anything, but that requires some time in a day actually. That of course will be slower each next 0.5%. I expect it getting 4? 5? days for the last ones. Still a bit if we assume that the new traits and AK 40 have similar proportions, but only slightly above my personal tolerance.

Maybe the AP itself won't be such difficult indeed. I'm not sure, will be there Artifact Research Compendia up to level 35? Can't find a link to these. Then it'd be worth to unlock them first, and think not too much about alts yet.

But what about the other stuff, quests, gating these quests behind OH missions et cetera. The campaign itself for a third relic takes circa two weeks if I recall correctly? Or is it a bit different for each class?

If one could get a Pathfinder on PTR (for insight on how easier things get then), I may consider installing the client.

And thank you Gráinne for being above the emotional parts of this thread and just providing some research. I hope you have the Battle.net status notifications turned off, otherwise sorry for all these dad jokes and mixed expressions.

(I'm a bit confused that there appear more and more threads, and it's all the same… Not asking for merging them because the chronology could make it a complete mess )

[Digem]

Maw runs will offer less AP come 7.2 and longer mythics and mythics plus more.
Also higher level mythic plus's will give more AP.
So maw runs won't be as easy to find or as frequently done.
Add in for most these classes will be lower geared Alts and finding runs won't be easy

This is true. Of course, different people have different levels of resources. Some people have guilds that will happily boost them through their first runs until they have gear enough to stand on their own two feet. Some people play these as main classes, and will be viable by the time we see AK40.

However, I have no special resources with these classes, so I won't get in done in a few days; it will take me 17 hours of dailies. Or 12, or 21, or whatever the numbers turn up.

It could be worse. It is worse, with the PvP pets. It was worse, way worse, unimaginably worse, with Graves, but I didn't see any revolts then.

Agreed I am not a fan of the pvp pets either but I thought graves was a cake walk to get. Now my opinion might be jaded by wod and the utter lack of content so doing hots for graves seemed like something to do.
That might be what my biggest problem is with the new class hall and pvp pets is due to the fact in legion we now have so much to do adding this makes it seem so daunting. In legion every time I do something like WQ's,dungeons,raids etc... and it isn't done on my main I feel I am holding back my main. As all those things add AP and chances at legendaries. Since my main still needs AP and I still am hoping for the better legendaries doing stuff like this on Alts seems like work taken away from my main.
Add in these are classes I had no plans to level until the end of the expansion and it seems like more of waste.

[Nelaphim]

I am fine with the Rogue pet, I guess. Same with the monk.

But having to max three DK weapons for pets is a bit much.

[Digem]

I am fine with the Rogue pet, I guess. Same with the monk.

But having to max three DK weapons for pets is a bit much.

Why they didn't do something similar as they did for shaman, druid, and warlock/demon hunter pets is stupid. One didn't even need to be max level to get those around 105 and it took like five minutes of work a day on the warlock/DH pet. Took like a few minutes every 2 to 3 days of herbing on a druid and took no time on a shaman. Why the drastic work needed to be done for these new ones is beyond me

[Gráinne]

Also the pets that preceded the DK/Monk pets that pretty much set the status quo for class pets. I think it's fair to say no one really expected the next set of class pets to have such requirements, and it took everyone by surprise.

I can understand that. Violated expectations.

I think I burned out the cells in my brain devoted to pet outrage with Graves, and I no longer expect the devs to act as if they considered the game to have any integrity, so I have a degree of immunity to having expectations violated.

However, as I say, exponentials are not intuitive, and perhaps people are panicking prematurely. Maxing a weapon from scratch, starting with AP tokens worth 100 or 400 AP, is a very, very heavy grind. But that's not how this is going to work. Waiting for AK40 and picking up a pet in two or three weeks doing regular dailies is much less extreme (always subject to numbers changes, of course).

These are out of line with existing class pets, but I find the levelling of disliked classes - in my case, Monk - more annoying than the AP. Bring on the Mage or Paladin pets, though.

[Noel]

Just saw this on the Q&A today:

Yes. There will be Artifact Knowledge 30 and 35 tomes.

So your new DK will start at 35 AK, 75 days after 7.2, and 25 days later will have max AK.

Lessens the load by a lot IMO

[Badpathing]

Just saw this on the Q&A today:

Yes. There will be Artifact Knowledge 30 and 35 tomes.

So your new DK will start at 35 AK, 75 days after 7.2, and 25 days later will have max AK.

Lessens the load by a lot IMO

And this is exactly why I gave the example of grinding my hunter from 0-30 in a single LFR evening. With the AK multipliers, it's not bad.

What people seem to be ignoring is the difference between "getting all traits" and "maxing your weapon out". Blizz didn't treat the getting all your traits part as including the 20 points in the 4th dragon; and THAT was the grind, not the 35 points.

[Moppet]

Since you guys seem okay with grinding out ap for the new pets, what about the other point I raised? What about priests, paladins, mages, hunters and warriors? They don't get unique pets?

Why is it fair for DKs/Monks/Rogues etcetc to get fun new pets, what about the rest of the classes?
I main a priest, I only like playing priests. I actually have my main priest, then 2 other alt priests that I'm slowly leveling up (they're both 100+). In past expansions, when my guild required an alt, I prepared a priest alt.

Why don't priests get our own pet? How is that fair?

[Digem]

Since you guys seem okay with grinding out ap for the new pets, what about the other point I raised? What about priests, paladins, mages, hunters and warriors? They don't get unique pets?

Why is it fair for DKs/Monks/Rogues etcetc to get fun new pets, what about the rest of the classes?
I main a priest, I only like playing priests. I actually have my main priest, then 2 other alt priests that I'm slowly leveling up (they're both 100+). In past expansions, when my guild required an alt, I prepared a priest alt.

Why don't priests get our own pet? How is that fair?

Yet another in the list of problems with this. At least with near all other pets up to this point I could collect them on the toon i wanted to collect it on.

[Noel]

So I did a tiny bit of math now that the ptr wowhead trait calculator has been updated. To update your weapon to 51 traits (which is all but paragon) you're going to need ~1 billion AP. 40 AK gives 1165100% or nearly 6 million per emmisary (I'm assuming many casual players will do an average of one of these a day).

So it will take ~170 days to max out one spec, and triple this for the DK pets. Which means you're going to have to do other activities on your DK to have a hope in finishing this. PVP emblems every 3 levels give you another 6 million (I get one or two of these a week...but getting burned out so let's go with 1). No way I'm running dungeons or mythics or raids with my alt so we're still talking bout 450 days of caches to get the DK pets. The good news is you can be sure you'll have your 2 pvp pets on the faction your dk is on...gotta grind anyway so whats 20 prestige?

I hope they adjust the numbers!