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Victory and Frustrating teams

Discuss pet battles, strategy and theorycrafting.
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Aerozia
 
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Victory and Frustrating teams

Postby Aerozia » June 17th, 2013, 11:24 pm

Well, i just encountered a team with a spectral porcupette, a magical crawdad and a anubisiath idol.

the guy just kept attacking with the spectral porcupette and switching out and making a wish with the crawdad then switching back, after a few rounds and no headway due to the fact that wish is THE most op move, 3 round cd and restores 50% of the CURRENT pets health, i said screw it and went whole hog, usually a battle is just a leisure fight, have fun, but this D-bag wasnt about to let me have fun.

my pets:
Unborn Val'kyr
Stitched Pup
Son of Animus

his pets:
Spectral porcupette
magical crawdad
Anubisiath idol

Used Curse of doom, then haunt, then summoned stitched pup, did howl, and Diseased Bite, between all this i FINALLY killed his spectral porcupette(he even switched it out trying to save it!)

my valk stayed dead, i brought out my son of animus and he proceeded to switch back and forth with crawdad and the idol, wishing every time it was up,then going back to the idol, eventually he killed my animus, even with wishing i managed to kill his idol with my stitched pup and he finally fled, was quite a long battle.


anyways, are there any teams that stack moves that just are not fair like this? or just moves in general that need to be nerfed with longer cds? or changed? just looking to discuss this, hear other peoples stories.

gonna start frapsing my pet battles from now on

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Spary
 
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Re: Victory and Frustrating teams

Postby Spary » June 17th, 2013, 11:56 pm

Wish has more then 3 rounds cd (5?) and is extremly vulnerable to any forced petswap - try it ^^

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Aerozia
 
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Re: Victory and Frustrating teams

Postby Aerozia » June 17th, 2013, 11:58 pm

i typically dislike forced pet swap teams, too cheap really, i guess you could say that about any teams, but it doesnt matter, wish always heals 50% health, reguardless of which pet it hits, its gonna heal them

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Spary
 
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Re: Victory and Frustrating teams

Postby Spary » June 18th, 2013, 12:42 am

Aerozia wrote:i typically dislike forced pet swap teams, too cheap really, i guess you could say that about any teams, but it doesnt matter, wish always heals 50% health, reguardless of which pet it hits, its gonna heal them


No it doesn't (at least with forced petswap) ;)

Example: I often play with the Broom (Idol/Stinker/Broom) - you can heal your team more than moderate (Stinker double heal+Sandstorm). If there is any crawdad in an enemy team You just take the Idol and focus on the Crawdad (sooner or later he HAS to switch it in - just to heal any of the other Pets or itself). You now can estimate the Wish and switch over to the Broom - and sweep of his wish. (Sweep always forces the highest health pet - so the wish is completely wasted, worst case is he now has 2 lowhealth pets in the back and the unused in Front - mostly a pet that he didn't use because its weak to any or most of your pets).

However: there is one drawback:

The Enemy may see it coming and switches in his highest Health pet - and gets his second highest fully healed. But the pressure is always on him, since anyway: I never let him heal his lowest health pet, and it may die - sooner or later - I can outlast him with my Team - he can't. The fight may last a while though ;)

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Tuatha
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Re: Victory and Frustrating teams

Postby Tuatha » June 18th, 2013, 1:29 am

Bah. Wish has several problems, not the least of which is that darkness teams are prevalent (due in a large part to wish). Dots tick during that wish turn, and you get to hit that uber-bad 2-round-stun inducing ability before wish fulfills, and a dead pet gets no healing. Then there's the simple idea that doing 150% more damage every 5 turns due to wish is easy enough when the opponent only does 25% of your damage.

Crawdad: OP until someone doesn't forfeit. Then it's just annoying.

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Aerozia
 
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Re: Victory and Frustrating teams

Postby Aerozia » June 18th, 2013, 2:53 am

they should really, fix wish tho, give it a longer cd OR it only affects the crawdad,

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Index
 
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Re: Victory and Frustrating teams

Postby Index » June 18th, 2013, 5:27 am

I agree and disagree. Wish is powerful, yes. But if your opponent is decent they will know how to counter it with swap tricks etc. I personally ran with "Team Annoying" due to someone using 2 idols and a runt, my team was a P/P slime / Crawdad with wish and Emp crab P/P so I'd dot, swap and heal.

This quickly got dull, so I only ran with it for about 10-15 fights, as they went on so long it wasn't effective in gaining wins and having been on the receiving end, I walked away as I knew what I was in for ;)

My team that got me 250 wins was lethal though, a little RNG heavy but when the Gods smiled, they chewed through almost any setup :twisted:

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Grifter
 
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Re: Victory and Frustrating teams

Postby Grifter » June 18th, 2013, 7:04 am

Index wrote:My team that got me 250 wins was lethal though, a little RNG heavy but when the Gods smiled, they chewed through almost any setup :twisted:


And what team would that be? ;)

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Teacake
 
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Re: Victory and Frustrating teams

Postby Teacake » June 18th, 2013, 7:54 am

TBH I forfeit the second I see a stall team, because boringboring.

That said, Crawdads can be beaten. As has been mentioned, swapping him using a highest-health-pet swap works wonders, as does using a fast swapper who can get rid of him before he can cast wish (requires good prediction of when he'll be brought in so you're ready with the swap), or just rooting him up front until he's dead. He can be torn down even despite Wish... eventually.

But it can take an agonizingly long time, especially if he's paired with an Idol. I've lost to those teams plenty, but I find it painful and annoying even to win against them, so I rarely bother.

I don't think Wish is unfair. It's powerful, especially when used wisely, but it doesn't make the pet invincible.

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Poofah
 
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Re: Victory and Frustrating teams

Postby Poofah » June 18th, 2013, 9:55 am

Teacake wrote:TBH I forfeit the second I see a stall team, because boringboring.


Unfortunately this is the best use of your time: it's just not worth 10+ minutes for a single victory. But under the old forfeit rules, this is exactly what a stall team wanted -- a free win. The new forfeit rules (match must go 1 minute for anyone to get a victory from a forfeit) have indirectly made stall teams much worse. I've seen very very few Crawdad teams in the past few days, which I assume is related.

On one hand, I think tanking/healing should be a viable strategy. But the current scorekeeping system just isn't compatible with such a team. We are trying to optimize wins per time, not win percentage, so a team that wins all of its matches in 10 minutes each is much worse than a team that wins 50% of its matches in 3 minutes each.

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Teacake
 
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Re: Victory and Frustrating teams

Postby Teacake » June 18th, 2013, 10:16 am

Poofah wrote:The new forfeit rules (match must go 1 minute for anyone to get a victory from a forfeit)


The forfeit issue was fixed last week. You once again get a victory no matter when your opponent forfeits. During the bad week I gave those teams a minute before I forfeit, because I agree they should be able to use a tanky team if they want to. I just don't want to play with them. :D

You do not get player xp unless the match lasts more than 1 minute.


Edit: there are complaints on the o-boards all the time about forfeiting. I do not get it now that the "bug" was fixed. I'll continue to bow out to save both of us some time when it becomes clear I can't win. I consider it good manners, not bad.

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Cat666
 
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Re: Victory and Frustrating teams

Postby Cat666 » June 18th, 2013, 10:45 am

I'm having some success against such teams with a Apocalypse build. The trouble is in order for it to work, you need have a tankyish team yourself so your just as bad as they are.

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Violetfemme
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Re: Victory and Frustrating teams

Postby Violetfemme » June 18th, 2013, 12:44 pm

I only just started pet battling seriously and have not come across the crawdad yet...and apparently I hope not to, unless to gain one of my own.

But I have to comment on the fights that go on and on because of healing or avoidance. I have had a few of these fights and when it is clear that I am not going to win, I tend not to forfeit because I feel like that is exactly what the person is hoping I'll do. And in fact, one such battle was going bad until about halfway through my last pet (Darkmoon Zeppelin), but somehow, Zeppy critted a couple times and managed to kill the opponents second pet. (It took both my first pets to take out the opponents first one). On his (or her) last pet, the opponent missed a couple times, and then my decoy CD was up again. Used a final Bombing Run, Decoy, a few missiles (died once and resurrected with mechanical ability during the missiles) and all of a sudden I won the battle. So, I almost never forfeit now, unless I am down to one pet and the opponent still has 3 at full health. I wish I could remember what that team was, because it was pretty OP and I only won because I got lucky.

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Poofah
 
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Re: Victory and Frustrating teams

Postby Poofah » June 18th, 2013, 1:21 pm

Teacake wrote:The forfeit issue was fixed last week. You once again get a victory no matter when your opponent forfeits. During the bad week I gave those teams a minute before I forfeit, because I agree they should be able to use a tanky team if they want to. I just don't want to play with them. :D


Hmm, I didn't realize that was the case: I'm not sure how I feel about that.

Tanky teams are a valid strategy, but it's hard to tell the difference between a team that is using a tanking strategy to try to win, versus a team that is just trying to stall the game forever (in the hopes that you will forfeit, or just to troll).

Violetfemme wrote:But I have to comment on the fights that go on and on because of healing or avoidance. I have had a few of these fights and when it is clear that I am not going to win, I tend not to forfeit because I feel like that is exactly what the person is hoping I'll do.


I agree, and I almost always play these matches out too, even though it's not good for me from a wins-per-time perspective. If these kinds of teams are successful, it will just encourage people to play them even more.

Just to be clear though: I would have no problem with tanking strategies in a tournament setting. But with the current scorekeeping system, tanking is a bad strategy (for both the tank player and the opponent--unless the opponent forfeits quickly, in which case it's a good strategy for the tank player). The only way to discourage it is to make sure they don't win, or at least that they don't win quickly.

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Aerozia
 
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Re: Victory and Frustrating teams

Postby Aerozia » June 19th, 2013, 1:25 am

the thing is, saying wish is easy to beat with a swap team does nothing really, you cant see your opponents before hand, so you dont know what they are going to use. i stick with my one team for now, pvp pet battles is only for the achieves for me right now, i get too strung up on it, i will pet duel anyone that initiates it, but i dont actively go looking for pvp pet battles.

pets that have swap moves should all be put on cd when one pet uses the swap move, or they should remove the damage part of the attack, OR they should allow the swapped pet to go first the next round, its not fair that a person can override anothers turn with a single attack, if they're going to continue that they should bring back reflection!

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Blackorange
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Re: Victory and Frustrating teams

Postby Blackorange » June 19th, 2013, 1:52 am

I have had a problem with the crawdad team only because i would have a low dps team. once i get some heavy hitters the crawdad is dead.

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Snowwie
 
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Re: Victory and Frustrating teams

Postby Snowwie » June 19th, 2013, 2:05 am

you never know what team will pop up with the looking for battle system, but if you get the crawdad team to much in a row, use a pet then with "Call Darkness" OP healing solved :)

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Darkalucard
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Re: Victory and Frustrating teams

Postby Darkalucard » June 19th, 2013, 5:28 am

Blind darkness team:

Mini Diablo, Brilliant Kaliri, Pandaren Monk!

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Graven
 
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Re: Victory and Frustrating teams

Postby Graven » June 19th, 2013, 2:47 pm

I kept getting matched with a guy using a wish/sunlight team last night, and it was extremely frustrating. He was using no offensive moves at all, just Apocalypse (which btw stiil hits Anubisath even if he has Deflection active, and hits Ragnaros even if he is submerged with Sons of Flame) and then heal heal heal.

Eventually beat him because he forgot to switch in his beetle to take an apocalypse, but wow, what an annoying opponent.


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