Less trivial: two literally OP new pets

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Gráinne
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Less trivial: two literally OP new pets

Post by Gráinne » August 30th, 2018, 4:54 am

Pets' final stats are calculated from their Base Stats and their Breeds. Some may have a little more Base Speed, for example, which gives Rabbits a natural advantage in that even before the effects of Breed are added. However, when something is added to one of a pet's Base Stats, the same is taken away from another, keeping a form of balance in basic power.

Most pets have standard base stats close to 8, 8, 8, so all pets have a total of 24 Base Stats. Except a few exceptions like the Plushie and Zoom and the Peddlefeet Campaign that I posted about a while ago. viewtopic.php?f=3&t=17623

And now two others.

And these are less amusing, less of a curiosity, and more real.

The new [pet]Boghopper[/pet] and [pet]Hermit Crab[/pet] have base stats of 8, 8.75, 8.75 for a total of 25.5 instead of 24.0.

I do not believe this is an oversight by the devs, so I assume it is intended.

Do these two pets make a huge difference to the overall game? Probably not, although I can see them becoming the preferred options in a couple of cases.

I do wonder, though, whether the devs are sliding in a new way to introduce a power creep to favour new pets over old ones, and that makes me a bit concerned.

I wonder what you all think? Is it a one-off? or the start of something else? I don't think the numbers are all in on several other of the BfA pets. It will be interesting to keep an eye on this.

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Lolfixheal
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Re: Less trivial: two literally OP new pets

Post by Lolfixheal » August 30th, 2018, 9:16 am

On a side note, those two are also the only singlebreeds of the 27 new Wild pets from BFA. Has anyone actually found either as a rare spawn? Been plowing my way through Hermit Crabs myself, never rare, Wowhead comment suggest the same.

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Re: Less trivial: two literally OP new pets

Post by Missbitt » August 31st, 2018, 12:45 am

I believe my Hermit Crab was a rare when I caught it, but not my Boghopper. That being said, it took me a very long time to find a spawned Hermit Crab.

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Rosqo
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Re: Less trivial: two literally OP new pets

Post by Rosqo » August 31st, 2018, 1:42 am

Didn’t I post the same thing on EU forums?

The probably solution would be just changing base stats to a reason level.

Just look at this one of many battle oversights

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Harpooha
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Re: Less trivial: two literally OP new pets

Post by Harpooha » September 17th, 2018, 5:32 am

I am not sure it matters much with the Boghopper. Unless you get lucky with Frog Kiss, it will still be an average pet.

OTOH, the Hermit Crab is a very useful pet. The Shell Armor/Dive combo makes it similar to a Rabbit. If you have the speed advantage, you will take minimal to no damage on 3 of 5 turns. To me, it is as if they designed it to be a nemesis pewt for Wicked Soul. And that is a good thing.

Off topic, I am curious how you determine the base stats for a pet. Not sure I see the formula here.

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Gráinne
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Re: Less trivial: two literally OP new pets

Post by Gráinne » September 17th, 2018, 1:49 pm

The formulae for the stats of a given pet are:

Health = ((BaseHealth + (HealthPts / 10)) * 5 * Level * Quality) + 100
Power = (BasePower + (PowerPts / 10)) * Level * Quality
Speed = (BaseSpeed + (SpeedPts / 10)) * Level * Quality

Where Quality values are:
Quality Name Colour Multiplier
1 Poor Grey 1.0
2 Common White 1.1
3 Uncommon Green 1.2
4 Rare Blue 1.3
5 Epic Purple 1.4
6 Legendary Orange 1.5

For a Blue 25, Level is 25 and Quality is 1.3, so Level * Quality = 25*1.3 = 32.5

PowerPts and SpeedPts and HealthPts are the values from Breed. An S/S gets 20 SpeedPts and 0 PowerPts, 0 Healthpts. See https://www.warcraftpets.com/wow-pet-battles/breeds/ for table.

A 25 Blue [pet]Hermit Crab[/pet] has stats 1400 / 284 / 349

So

BaseHealth = 1400 => ((BaseHealth) * 5 * 32.5) + 100 = 1300 / 162.5 = 8
BasePower = 284 => (BasePower)) * 32.5 = 284/32.5 = 8.738
BaseSpeed = 349 => (BaseSpeed + 2) * 32.5 = 349 / 32.5 - 2 = 10.738 - 2 = 8.738

There's rounding involved here, and stats are displayed as integers.

Plug in 8.75 and you get

Speed = (BaseSpeed + (SpeedPts / 10)) * Level * Quality
Speed = (8.75 + 2) * 32.5
Speed = 349.375 - rounds to 349

Apologies for any remaining typo above. I've caught three, but may have left more.

And yes Rosqo, you did post about it on EU. Here: https://eu.battle.net/forums/en/wow/top ... 203#post-1 I originally did it in my head, and was wrong; I said 8.7 and Remte corrected me. But I had seen it mentioned before on the Discord, with you and Brawler and someone else talking about it, and the forum post went completely out of my mind. Blame my advancing age.

Anyway, I thought it deserved a less transient note than Discord.

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Rosqo
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Re: Less trivial: two literally OP new pets

Post by Rosqo » September 17th, 2018, 3:44 pm

The mechanical prairie dog is another pet with inflated stats. I can only imagine this is an artificial way that the Devs are ensuring power creep. Gotta have an incentive to play the newest pets.

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Re: Less trivial: two literally OP new pets

Post by Lordy » September 18th, 2018, 2:12 am

I think the Hermit crab possibly was intended to be a little overstated rather than a mistake.

In PvP he seems to go some way to countering some of more overpowered pets in the game without himself being game breaking. He also might help with some of the tougher achievement battles where you need a full team of Aquatics. Aquatics generally offer some of the weaker pets to battle with and this crab probably actually provides a much needed boost for the family.

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Re: Less trivial: two literally OP new pets

Post by Gráinne » September 22nd, 2018, 10:27 am

Rosqo wrote:I can only imagine this is an artificial way that the Devs are ensuring power creep. Gotta have an incentive to play the newest pets.
Yeah, that's what worries me. They have established a precedent for breaking the basic structures of the game, with no protest from the players, and will now feel free to continue along those lines.
Lordy wrote:Aquatics generally offer some of the weaker pets to battle with and this crab probably actually provides a much needed boost for the family.
I get the idea that some families could use a boost. That was highlighted by the various Family achievements. But they could have done that within the framework of the game, by creating pets with different stat and moveset distributions, without blanket-adding 6% extra power to a couple of new pets.

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Rosqo
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Re: Less trivial: two literally OP new pets

Post by Rosqo » September 22nd, 2018, 2:04 pm

I wouldn’t say it’s without protest I’ve reported every new broken ability or pet. I know there’s other players who have done the same. Blizzard are just too arrogant when it comes to pet battles and won’t admit a mistake (I am glad they fixed Moth Balls shame it wasn’t shared in hotfixes like they’ve swept it under the carpet.)

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Re: Less trivial: two literally OP new pets

Post by Gráinne » November 7th, 2019, 11:02 pm

I've just noticed a new deliberately overpowered pet.

The Slimy Darkhunter, like the Hermit Crab and the Boghopper, has basic stats 6.25& above standard.

If the devs are going to keep doing this, they really need to address it, and why we should respect the game when they are tilting the table.

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Re: Less trivial: two literally OP new pets

Post by Rosqo » November 8th, 2019, 6:36 am

It's a lazy lazy way of making new pets relevant. Within the dev team they don't have an understanding of what would make a pet good or bad.

For aquatics outside of Emperor Crab, Purple Puffer (TCG) and Magical Crawdad (noob friendly) the rest of the family doesn't stand out and has been around for a long time. So instead of knowing what would make a Aquatic pet strong they just buff the base stats. I'd look at better versions of Leviathan Hatchling, Bleed + Blood in the Water with a forced swap, Barrage style attack, more non aquatic pets with Healing Stream.

Its weird that the Darkhunter has buffed stats when there is a fair amount of strong humanoid pets but again I'd imagine they are frustrated by the lack of newer humanoids being used frequently. Only Wrymy (ironically has an overbudget ability) or Rebellious Imp (almost a copy of a top humanoid pet) are really being used alot from the newer pets. I'd imagine in pve only the noob idol ever really gets used.

I think that they have done the same with Dragonkin with Twilight Meteorite but just putting like a minefield or giving pets decent base stats (Scaley) on this family would be a big buff. With Dragonkin it's also one of the least represented families and most use a similar moveset anyway so it's no surprise there are less strong pets without breaking the game.

I would expect that the Hermit Crab will be nerfed next expansion along with Twilight Meteorite and hopefully Jar of Smelly Liquid but would be surprised if other broken pets get looked at.

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Re: Less trivial: two literally OP new pets

Post by Harpooha » November 16th, 2019, 1:40 am

You will get your wish. One of the things listed on upcoming pet battle changes was "Hermit Crab".

Maybe they can take the nerf bat to the Fiendish Imp while they're at it.

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