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Undead racial

Discuss pet battles, strategy and theorycrafting.
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Rosqo
 
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Undead racial

Postby Rosqo » January 4th, 2018, 7:33 am

So as most people know the undead racial is by far the most overpowered of all the families. Immortal for 1 round whilst doing 75% damage.

How could this be brought into line whilst still retaining its current design/flavour?

It’s been mentioned by a few people would a 50% stat reduction be more appropriate?

Just wondered what other people thought.

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Spinning
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Re: Undead racial

Postby Spinning » January 4th, 2018, 1:00 pm

Flat -50% damage nerf

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Sile9
 
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Re: Undead racial

Postby Sile9 » January 4th, 2018, 11:42 pm

Not sure. Further penalized damage might reduce Bone Serpent spam, but as a family the undead are probably the least affected by reduced damage on their final turn out of all.

Many would remain just as powerful simply for the utility/dots they can toss out while debuffed: Plagued Blood, Cyclone, Unholy Ascension, Death and Decay, Haunting Song, Corpse Explosion, Curse of Doom, Stampede, etc. are not meaningfully affected by a single turn of nerfed damage. If Immortal left a permanent debuff it would at least impact long dots as well instead of just basically Ghostly Bite, Darkness combo, and AoE.

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FuxieDK
 
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Re: Undead racial

Postby FuxieDK » January 5th, 2018, 5:29 am

25% damage reduction is already a huge penalty... No need to ruin an entire family..

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Lordy
 
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Re: Undead racial

Postby Lordy » January 5th, 2018, 10:09 am

Is the Undead Racial that overpowered? True its probably the best racial but other than Bone Serpents it doesn't feel that bad going up against undead enemy pets.

Maybe rather than Nerf the undead racial Blizzard should give a buff to some of the weaker racials instead? I would vote for example to double the effectiveness of the aquatic racial to make it more noticeable an effect. Or how about changing the magic racial to be a fixed maximum damage rather than based upon stamina so H/H magic pets actually have a racial ability? That kind of thing

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Rosqo
 
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Re: Undead racial

Postby Rosqo » January 5th, 2018, 10:53 am

It’s a pretty overpowered racial, basically you or your opponent can sometimes get off two extra hits they wouldn’t usually albeit at 75%.

I kinda feel that a stat nerf would be better that the flat damage nerf as this would affect a wider range of abilities.

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Spinning
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Re: Undead racial

Postby Spinning » January 5th, 2018, 8:32 pm

FuxieDK wrote:25% damage reduction is already a huge penalty... No need to ruin an entire family..

My avatar eats your avatar for breakfast. And 25% is not enough. If we do a poll about the best racial, undeads would STILL win.

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Gráinne
 
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Re: Undead racial

Postby Gráinne » January 5th, 2018, 10:41 pm

I remember posted about this at the time, in the Blue thread. I remember it wasn't clear to me at the time from the suggested wording whether the reduction took place on the round the Undead went to zero as well as on the Damned round proper.

The typical sequence, for a slow undead (and most of them are slow) went:

1. Undead brought to zero
2. Undead goes second: uses Attack 1
3. Undead enters Damned round
4. Undead uses Attack 2

So the Undead gets off two extra attacks.

As it stands, the Undead gets 2 attacks @75% = 150% of an extra round.

I say now, as I said then, that 50% is the appropriate reduction, not 25%. That means that the Undead still gets an extra 100% of a round as its racial, plus whatever bonus benefit might apply from a CD like Unholy Ascension.

Having said that:

1. Where the Bone Serpent specifically is concerned, the relatively small potential nerf from a change to the Undead racial is not enough for it. I say we take off and nuke the entire Serpent from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.

2. I have some sympathy with Lordy's view that a buff to some of the weaker racials would do more good overall than a nerf to Undead.

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Biscuit
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Re: Undead racial

Postby Biscuit » January 6th, 2018, 6:23 pm

My proposed racial changes

Humans: Perfectly fine IMO. No changes needed.

Dragonkin: Reflect Beasts. 25% Damage increase once you bring your opponent sub 50% HP. Dragons, for the most part, are slow. (Only six[?] unique Dragons have 325 speed or higher) This mean that, if faster, you can often times choose to evade a Dragon’s racial. If 25% isn’t enough, tweak that number to something more impactful i.e. 30%, 35%, etc.

OR...alternatively, don’t touch their racial, but instead tack on a Bloodfang or Ravage effect, enabling them to recover X amount of health after felling an enemy pet.

Fliers: Perfect. Leave them be.

Undead: Flat 50% damage reduction OR stat loss upon reaching zero HP.

Critter: As well as shrugging off stuns, make these elusive buggers also immune to being swapped out to the back line.

Magic: Simple number change...lower the maximum amount of damage a magic pet can take in a single blow down to 30% rather than 35%.

Elemental: Fine as well. However, I wouldn’t lose sleep if they added abilities like Mana Surge or similar to the list of “harmful weather effects” and subsequently negating them.

Beasts: Tiny bump of 30% extra damage below half health.

Aquatic: Taking half DoT damage is arguably the worst racial in the game. Possible solution? Add field effects (DoTs that persist through pet swaps). Plus, just like during Cleansing Rain, reduce the duration of said DoTs as well.

Mechanical: Good right where it’s at.

Edit: Changed Magic from 25% to 30% after realizing how much of a PITA the Hyjal Wisp would become.

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Rosqo
 
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Re: Undead racial

Postby Rosqo » January 6th, 2018, 7:11 pm

They are some cool ideas for adjusting the racials Brawler. I don’t think a massive overhaul is needed just a few minor changes

I think a couple could be different though:

Humanoid: Agreed except healing effect reduce by half whilst on backline

Dragonkin: I really like your idea but feel it might be overpowered.

Fliers: Agree

Undead: 50% stat loss, it reduces the effectiveness of more abilities

Critter: Agree

Magic: 33% seems like a good number to me

Elemental: Agree I think a few things need to be added to not affect them such as surge of light stunning then under darkness and the arcane winds abilities

Beasts: Agree

Aquatic: What if every debuff was halved slows, dmg increases, power reductions? Might be a bit op though thinking about it.

Mechanicals: Agree


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