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No wonder nobody pvps

Discuss pet battles, strategy and theorycrafting.
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Chaminade
 
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No wonder nobody pvps

Postby Chaminade » July 3rd, 2017, 7:50 pm

I got my 10 pvp wins for the quest in Org, but other that that is not worth pvping. There is no reward. People retreat when they know that they're losing the battle, so it takes forever to get the achievements done. At least stay in the game so the other one gets the credit. It doesn't even bother me that people use the same team over and over; I like to adjust and try something new. But this is just a waste of time.

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Gráinne
 
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Re: No wonder nobody pvps

Postby Gráinne » July 4th, 2017, 4:20 am

I agree that the PvP system is very lacking. From what I've read, it was sort of thrown in as a rushed afterthought, outside the game's main code framework, and has never been updated, not even the rewards, which would be very easy to update. I started a thread about it just recently viewtopic.php?f=3&t=17053

So no argument on that point.

However, I don't understand you saying "People retreat when they know that they're losing the battle, so it takes forever to get the achievements done". When someone resigns, you DO get credit for the win, even if they forfeit instantly.

There is a bug in the scenario ending where sometimes you get a downbeat "Battle Finished" message instead of "You Won!" even when you did win, but despite the wrong message your PvP win is credited to you. This has happened to me many times, and I've never failed to get the win credit. It is misleading if you don't know about it though. Check your quest score to see for yourself.

I can understand people people forfeiting immediately when they are completely countered. If I was running an all-mech team, and ran into all-elementals, I'd just save us both some time and concede instantly too.

One feature people sometimes dislike is this: if you're PvP battling on a lowbie character for character XP, and the battle lasts less than a minute, you don't get character XP. That, however, is intended, and I can understand it.

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Chaminade
 
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Re: No wonder nobody pvps

Postby Chaminade » July 4th, 2017, 7:16 am

That is strange. My count for the achievement didn't go up after the opposing party left. A bug then maybe? I will try again after the maintenance today.

But even if I know I am going to lose the battle, I will stay in. I am learning how the other party is using their pets, and how mine are performing. I understand that some people don't want to waste their time, but it isn't a waste to me. So let's hope I am wrong and I indeed get the credit, and it was either a bug, or I got the numbers wrong.

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Nagini
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Re: No wonder nobody pvps

Postby Nagini » July 4th, 2017, 12:30 pm

To avoid wintrading, I think blizzard implemented a minimum amount of time for a battle to be ongoing before you can get achievementcredit. Don't think this applies to the quests, though.
The rewards from the PetPvP system stem from a pre-endWoD time where getting petsupplies could still be quite a hassle, and stones were this rare and special thing. So the satchel was actually one of the few good ways to get upgrade stones. Nowadays ofcourse, you can easily buy them. Not trying to defend the system, but rather thats why it is the way it is.

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Gráinne
 
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Re: No wonder nobody pvps

Postby Gráinne » July 4th, 2017, 2:35 pm

Nagini wrote:The rewards from the PetPvP system stem from a pre-endWoD time where getting petsupplies could still be quite a hassle, and stones were this rare and special thing. So the satchel was actually one of the few good ways to get upgrade stones. Nowadays ofcourse, you can easily buy them. Not trying to defend the system, but rather thats why it is the way it is.

I agree, and I said that in my post.

You could also get a Burger from your weekly Celestial Tournament. The Burger was rare and precious, and you would make sure to use EVERY MINUTE of it. :)

10 PvP wins gave you a reward equivalent to a "raid clear", the highest weekly PvE achievement in the game at the time.

There is no equivalent to the CT in Legion. Family Familiar would qualify, but that was a one-time thing. The dungeons are certainly nothing like the CT. So there is no "raid clear" equivalent in Legion. But even the dungeons reward better than 10 PvP wins, which are no easier now than they were then.

It was appropriate then. It is the way it is now, though, because they haven't updated it to match rewards in other areas of the game.

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Flow
 
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Re: No wonder nobody pvps

Postby Flow » July 4th, 2017, 5:23 pm

I think there should be an ever so tiny chance to get one of the prestige pets or other rare pets from legion content. (don't pvp myself outside the pet weekend).

But part of the problem is that so many runs with the same team (ie Haunt). So you either run a counter team or do the same. And that's plain boring, because 97% of your pets you will never use/try. Same story as with Graves. (and countering Haunt became a lot harder with the Wicked Soul pet, before him you would be faster with any 276 pet).

When it's both boring to play and no meaningful rewards, no wonder.

Not sure what they can do to improve pvping. There will always be op teams I guess. Sometimes I think the family bonuses are too strong, maybe if it was 33% in pvp it would be better. Or maybe it would be worse. Maybe if it was 66% matches will be quicker and more people would play. Or maybe if everyone got one free swap per match it could make for more interesting gameplay.

_

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Rosqo
 
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Re: No wonder nobody pvps

Postby Rosqo » July 4th, 2017, 6:05 pm

So if the opponent insta flees then you don't get achievement credit? You still get quest credit obviously though.

Sprung
 
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Re: No wonder nobody pvps

Postby Sprung » July 5th, 2017, 4:50 am

I have to admit PvP is rather annoying currently. I do still play however. It just seems to me that people fall in to one of two categories.

Achievement whores interested only in winning every battle. Tero / Bone Teams.
Pet battlers interested in playing the game, using a well thought out team who enjoy the fight.

Personally don`t get the whole lets just roll a team that 9/10 times will win every fight, it boring not enjoyable and totally predictable.

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Alkaia
 
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Re: No wonder nobody pvps

Postby Alkaia » July 5th, 2017, 5:37 am

Maybe they should tweak it.

Put 10-20 pets in a team and set their abilities. The game will then randomly select 3 from your team to battle someone else.

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Rosqo
 
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Re: No wonder nobody pvps

Postby Rosqo » July 5th, 2017, 5:54 am

Or maybe you can only use a certain pet a set number of times a week. Say you can only use poor old teroclaw 3 times a week it might stop the most toxic teams

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Gráinne
 
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Re: No wonder nobody pvps

Postby Gráinne » July 5th, 2017, 6:08 am

Certainly, some restrictions on pets in teams might be helpful, but it's not easy to see how.

If the game selects all 3 pets for you, it takes away all control you have in building team synergy and strategy. That kills the game for me immediately.

I like the idea of: you tag 100 unique pets. The game selects 30 of those, in three columns. You make your teams one from each column. But it's awfully finicky, and excludes anyone without 100 pets. Maybe 50 instead of 100? Or just limit it to 30 tagged pets, but I;s like to see more than the top 30 occasionally.

Only use a pet a certain number of times a week? OK. That would help a lot, but the game must then keep track of how many times which pets have been used for every player every week, and, seriously, most people would start to run out of pets if they were grinding a lot. :)

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Chaminade
 
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Re: No wonder nobody pvps

Postby Chaminade » July 5th, 2017, 8:24 am

I pvp for fun, and I like to pick different pets just to see how they perform. I throw spiders in here and there, a moth, or a new pet that I haven't used before. But in the end if you want to win you'll have to start countering the winning teams. Ok, fine. But at least they should upgrade the rewards. A pet for 100 battles won, stones and other minor items for 50 and 10 battles won. A tournament every now and then would be nice too.

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Rosqo
 
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Re: No wonder nobody pvps

Postby Rosqo » July 5th, 2017, 8:31 am

You do have a point in that due to the number of people just countering each other with progressively stronger pets it's just results in everyone just using their best pets.
I would like to see weekly bonus pets that give some benefit to winning 5 times with them in the teams. These would probably just have to be wild caught pets so everyone would have access to them.

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Digem
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Re: No wonder nobody pvps

Postby Digem » July 5th, 2017, 10:33 am

Rosqo wrote:You do have a point in that due to the number of people just countering each other with progressively stronger pets it's just results in everyone just using their best pets.
I would like to see weekly bonus pets that give some benefit to winning 5 times with them in the teams. These would probably just have to be wild caught pets so everyone would have access to them.



You could be onto something here and I like your thinking.
Shame blizz doesn't think the same way. Add something to mix it up it has been a pet of the moment or op team of the moment snore fest for years with the same boring rewards. Come on blizz this could be so much more

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Gráinne
 
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Re: No wonder nobody pvps

Postby Gráinne » July 5th, 2017, 3:36 pm

Case in point. I just went into the queue and I'm 2 out of 10!

My opposition included: 3 Bone Serpents (twice), a full-fledged Sunny Day team, Graves, Bone Serpent, MPD followed by Graves, Bone Serpent, Weeb (at this point I was getting flashbacks to WoD) followed by, of all things, a guy running 3 Green pets. I imagined how he must be feeling and threw that one.

I think the queue right now is as toxic as Warlords.

I was about to gear up, when I thought: No, this is good; it reminds me why I got out.

And I got out again. :)

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Flow
 
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Re: No wonder nobody pvps

Postby Flow » July 5th, 2017, 4:08 pm

Rosqo wrote:I would like to see weekly bonus pets that give some benefit to winning 5 times with them in the teams. These would probably just have to be wild caught pets so everyone would have access to them.


Yes please. What a brilliant idea :)

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Rosqo
 
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Re: No wonder nobody pvps

Postby Rosqo » July 5th, 2017, 7:05 pm

Gráinne wrote:Case in point. I just went into the queue and I'm 2 out of 10!

My opposition included: 3 Bone Serpents (twice), a full-fledged Sunny Day team, Graves, Bone Serpent, MPD followed by Graves, Bone Serpent, Weeb (at this point I was getting flashbacks to WoD) followed by, of all things, a guy running 3 Green pets. I imagined how he must be feeling and threw that one.

I think the queue right now is as toxic as Warlords.

I was about to gear up, when I thought: No, this is good; it reminds me why I got out.

And I got out again. :)


How do you get these match ups? The queue is about as easy as it will be for weeks at the moment. I'm queuing with literally any half decent team and winning

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Gráinne
 
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Re: No wonder nobody pvps

Postby Gráinne » July 5th, 2017, 9:50 pm

Rosqo wrote:How do you get these match ups?

Just lucky, I guess. :P

So I popped in just now real quick for another sample, though 3am is not standard.

Anyway, two "normal" teams, and one beaut - a classic I remember from Warlords.

Triple-Weeb. First move is Death Grip, and after that, nothing but Cleave. Yes, really. No, nothing. No Corpse Explosion, no Consume Corpse, no Haymaker. Just Cleave. And a pause when choosing the next pet when one dies. I think it has to be a bot.

So that's my 5, and I can tick it off the list until next Sign of the Critter. :)

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Digem
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Re: No wonder nobody pvps

Postby Digem » July 6th, 2017, 6:54 am

Gráinne wrote:Case in point. I just went into the queue and I'm 2 out of 10!

My opposition included: 3 Bone Serpents (twice), a full-fledged Sunny Day team, Graves, Bone Serpent, MPD followed by Graves, Bone Serpent, Weeb (at this point I was getting flashbacks to WoD) followed by, of all things, a guy running 3 Green pets. I imagined how he must be feeling and threw that one.

I think the queue right now is as toxic as Warlords.

I was about to gear up, when I thought: No, this is good; it reminds me why I got out.

And I got out again. :)



Boy that sounds like some real fun doesn't it ? I am so glad I got my 5000 pet pvp wins 3 years ago during mop. I have barely pvped since and don't miss it due to this. Blizz has yet to do anything for years and why should we expect it? They let real pvp become a bot stun fest why would I expect them to fix pet pvp an even more nitche side game

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Rosqo
 
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Re: No wonder nobody pvps

Postby Rosqo » July 6th, 2017, 7:50 am

You really don't face that many super op teams in the queues it's really exaggerated by everyone including myself. Yea it's annoying but soo easily countered more often than not and they are very easy to out play 99% of the time.

You also have to remember the reality is these players can't beat you playing any other teams. They've likely been beaten up on countless times playing core hound pups, b/b rabbits and winters little helpers that they just resort to toxic teams.

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