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PvP rewards

Discuss pet battles, strategy and theorycrafting.
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Gráinne
 
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PvP rewards

Postby Gráinne » July 1st, 2017, 1:40 am

I swore I was out after my Trainer, but seeing
start up YouTube channels has made me think about it again.

I'm sure that anyone who has tried PvP has opinions on how to improve it. I assume that most of those concern how battles are organised, and could be more work than the devs are willing to spend on a minority pursuit.

Even possible achievements like "Family Feud" as a PvP counterpart to Family Familiar, or "Defeat 30 pets" instead of 10 wins as a less discouraging start quest for beginners might be something that requires code changes they are not keen to mess with.

And I can understand that.

One thing, though, I feel sure would not cost a raid tier is a change to the weekly PvP bag, Brawler's Pet Supplies.

This bag contains one Pet Treat, and has about a 2% chance to contain each of the family Blue stones.

Back in Mists, a Pet Treat was a BIG DEAL. You could get it only from one Celestial Tournament win, or 10 PvP wins. One per week from each of the hardest content quests. That was appropriate.

However, the Pet Treat is now much devalued. You get a Pet Treat for 10 Charms, so any WQ will get you enough to buy one, maybe 2. You don't even have to pet battle at all - put the shoulder enchant on and go kill a few murlocs and you have it. The burger is now so cheap it belongs on a McDonald's Saver Menu!

Consider how much work it takes to get one through PvP.

If you have a 50% win rate (and overall, that's what the average has to be!), you need to win 20 battles. If each battle takes 5 minutes, we're looking at investing 100 minutes per week - of much more effort than botting down tamers with the new addon - to get a Pet Treat.

The Weekly PvP Reward is due an update.

What additional rewards would be appropriate?

Charms would be easy, but there are just too many of them coming already from too many sources. Throw some in the bag, sure, as an anchor reward, but let's face it - nobody who is doing PvP regularly cares anymore.

A Luxury Pet Treat, giving +100% XP instead of the Pet Treat's 50%? It doesn't excite me, but maybe some others would like it.

I would suggest existing battle RNG tradeable pets, such as the Wailing Caverns ones or the Albino Buzzard, at maybe a 1-2% chance each. Deadmines pets or a Bottle Cap would also be fair game in the bag, since there is already another PvE source for them, but those would have zero value when you have completed your Deadmines collection. The range could be expanded as new pet dungeons are added.

If Blizzard did go to the trouble of making a new pet specifically for this, I think it should be strictly tradeable. PvP already has its exclusive pet, and I wouldn't want to gate things for collectors more than Legion has done in so many ways already, especially behind even moar RNG.

What do you think? What would you add to the bag without doing any extra work that might tempt in some fresh blood?

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Wootzy
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Re: PvP rewards

Postby Wootzy » July 1st, 2017, 6:32 am

Perhaps a cool reward for the weekly 10 PvP wins would be to multiply it by 10, so you get 100 PvP wins out of it that counts towards the 5000 achievement. Dunno, just a brainfart.

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Digem
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Re: PvP rewards

Postby Digem » July 1st, 2017, 10:41 am

Unfortunately blizz is and always has been bad at keeping older content relevant. The 10 pvp wins having the same reward now as it did when first released in mop is a prime example. It should be updated but won't be. Pet charms and instant upgrade stones should be added minimumly.
Maybe a new currency that one can use to buy the pvp pets or brawlers guild pets would be nice. It would get more people doing it and give people an optional way to get those pets. Pet pvp should count as much as pvp for pets as one is actually using pets in pet pvp.

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Gráinne
 
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Re: PvP rewards

Postby Gráinne » July 2nd, 2017, 7:14 am

Digem, I understand not keeping old content current in PvE, but leaving it there with its rewards intact.

But in PvP, it's always the same content. The opposing players are the content. Just with updated rewards.

I can understand that changing the pet PvP process is something that might cost more time and attention than they can afford. And I understand that they might not have confidence that an update would pay off. But I don't see a reason for Blizzard not to update Pet PvP rewards; it's one of those things that I would have thought they would do as routine.

I do like the idea of making pet PvP an alternate way to earn PvP pets.

Wootzy, I love the idea of scoring 100 wins credit for the quest, but I doubt they'll do that.

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Paladance
 
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Re: PvP rewards

Postby Paladance » July 2nd, 2017, 10:21 am

The burgers used to be pretty unique, yep, but the sausages can be obtained from the Fabled supplies aswell. I know you didn't mention them, just in case someone else wanted to make some mess. :P

Myself, I've used that stuff only several times, in the very beginning of levelling, and once during a Square Root (Squirt) day. I used to deem the treats only adding confusion to the upgrading plans (is it an overkill yet?). Anyone has a similar approach? :oops:

Seeing the "regular" and pet PvP intertwining here, what about a token that used could grant some old PvP currency (such as Tol Barad or Krasarang commendation). It could depend on the place where you use it (a little nuisance has to happen after all!), with a milder version being "the result depends on the level of your current zone (so any Cata zone for Tol Barad etc)". Some Timeworn Artifacts could be granted post-Legion.
If it sounds too much out of place I'd like to remind getting Halaa tokens in WoD from garrison… though it was just for the spatial reference.
Sig temporarily gone due to an existential crisis the dwarven folk struggles with every Brewfest. ;)

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Rosqo
 
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Re: PvP rewards

Postby Rosqo » July 4th, 2017, 5:06 pm

Maybe the bags should have a sliding reward system so if you get say 30-40 wins you get considerably more than just the person who does 10 wins.
The bags could have a shot at the pets that are found on the BMAH or in its containers obviously a low chance that increased a very small amount depending on wins. 10 wins 0.05%, 100 wins 0.5%

The family feud achievement is really hard to think of a way that won't just result in triple Bone Serpents or just getting teams countered by other players making it extremely difficult and frustrating. It might have to be something more like 5 wins on 25 different pets from that family ( I appreciate that it would be a lot of games but it's not gonna be aimed at everyone and it would be completed over a long time).

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Gráinne
 
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Re: PvP rewards

Postby Gráinne » July 5th, 2017, 6:28 am

I'm quite adamantly against low drop chance events on timegated content. As far as I'm concerned, if the 50/50 is three months or more, the chance is zero, and I won't bother. I don't buy lottery tickets.

at 1%, your 50/50 is about 69 attempts.

at 0.5%, your 50/50 is about 139 attempts

at 0.05%, your 50/50 is 1386 attempts.

Now remember, an attempt is a week. So with a 0.05% rate, you have a 50/50 chance of getting the drop in 26 years.

That doesn't motivate me to try! :P

And yes, Family Feud would have to specify unique pets in a team. Undead would surely be easier than others, but when you had your wins, you would move on from the Bone Serpents.

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Re: PvP rewards

Postby Rosqo » July 5th, 2017, 8:26 am

0.05% at each possible pet available would take 26 years to get one? Wow maybe a currency would be better but it would need to continue to hold its value. Probably have every pet drop purchasable at a very high price.

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Drudatz
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Re: PvP rewards

Postby Drudatz » July 6th, 2017, 6:43 pm

Wootzy wrote:Perhaps a cool reward for the weekly 10 PvP wins would be to multiply it by 10, so you get 100 PvP wins out of it that counts towards the 5000 achievement. Dunno, just a brainfart.
No. if you want that achivement, work for it like we all did :p

bad enough thats its so easy to level all pets to 25 these days :D
and that is the point why would anyone need the plus xp leveling food anymore except someone who starts today with pets?

Gráinne wrote:If you have a 50% win rate (and overall, that's what the average has to be!), you need to win 20 battles.
If you only have a 50% win chance you should pvp.

btw this is the reward you get when you level your toons by pet pvp from 100 to 110:
https://ibb.co/fgxkEa (thats only 2 of my army of alts)

I dont understand what you want to be changed Gráinne?

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Drudatz
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Re: PvP rewards

Postby Drudatz » July 7th, 2017, 8:18 am

Wootzy wrote:Yes, I was thinking about other people. Don't you worry about me, I've got my wins. Without using Teroclaw and other toxic pets like you do all the time.
I got my achi 12/07/2013 thats long before the teroclaw :lol:

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Gráinne
 
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Re: PvP rewards

Postby Gráinne » July 8th, 2017, 4:01 am

Drudatz wrote:I dont understand what you want to be changed Gráinne?

I thought I was fairly clear?

If they're going to keep the weekly PvP quest, let's get a reward appropriate to the standards of Legion for it.

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Quintessence
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Re: PvP rewards

Postby Quintessence » July 9th, 2017, 3:47 pm

Off topic posts have been removed from this thread; everyone please keep the discussion on topic and civil.

OP: I don't even pet PVP, however I agree that the PVP rewards could use an upgrade/adjustment. Mainly from the weekly quest IMO.

One idea that I posted on the Bnet Pet Battle forums -- a new type of pet treat! The idea of epic quality pets way-back-when had me thinking, 'Instead of permanent upgrades to quality and stats, why not temporary boosts?'

So what about a pet treat that temporary increases pet stats? (I even drew a small comic about it *shameless plug* :P heh)

BoP and Account-Bound. Duration of the buff could be the same as other pet treats, or even less if this is too strong. Effects of the treat could be a flat value, or even a percentage if we want some huge stats for a few pets haha. :lol:

Not usable in pet PVP to maintain balance; those that don't have stat pet treats would be at a huge disadvantage against those that have new treats.
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Drudatz
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Re: PvP rewards

Postby Drudatz » July 9th, 2017, 3:52 pm

Gráinne wrote:If they're going to keep the weekly PvP quest, let's get a reward appropriate to the standards of Legion for it.
As I wrote before I dont think the weekly quests is for people with 800+ max level pets but for "newbies".

At this stage "pros" should be getting rewards from current content and not expect old content to be revamped.
For example a Mythic Raider doesnt expect to get current gear when he does Ulduar and TK.
And the same applies for this quest.


Quintessence wrote:One idea that I posted on the Bnet Pet Battle forums -- a new type of pet treat! The idea of epic quality pets way-back-when had me thinking, 'Instead of permanent upgrades to quality and stats, why not temporary boosts?'

Not usable in pet PVP to maintain balance; those that don't have stat pet treats would be at a huge disadvantage against those that have new treats.

This doesnt make sense. You want a pvp quests to give you a treat which boosts you in pve.
How would that be of advantage of "pros" - I can clearly see the advantage for "newbies"
Last edited by Drudatz on July 9th, 2017, 4:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: PvP rewards

Postby Quintessence » July 9th, 2017, 3:58 pm

Drudatz wrote:
Gráinne wrote:If they're going to keep the weekly PvP quest, let's get a reward appropriate to the standards of Legion for it.
As I wrote before I dont think the weekly quests is for people with 800+ max level pets but for newbies.

At this stage "pros" should be getting rewards from current content and not expect old content to be revamped.
For example a Mythic Raider doesnt expect to get current gear when he does Ulduar and TK.
And the same applies for this quest.


The problem with this example though, is that there's constantly new raids being released that eventually make old(er) raids and gear obsolete. There are no new quests for pet PVP - you largely have to make your own objectives/goals/content in this area of Pet Battles.

Perhaps it's time for a new pet PVP weekly quest? Keep the current one as is (for beginners), and create a new one for more advanced PVP'ers? A new weekly quest could justify new(er) and updated rewards.
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Drudatz
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Re: PvP rewards

Postby Drudatz » July 9th, 2017, 4:01 pm

Quintessence wrote:Perhaps it's time for a new pet PVP weekly quest?
We have new weeklies: WC and DM and in 7.3 the new trainer.

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Gráinne
 
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Re: PvP rewards

Postby Gráinne » July 9th, 2017, 4:09 pm

Drudatz wrote:As I wrote before I dont think the weekly quests is for people with 800+ max level pets but for "newbies".

At this stage "pros" should be getting rewards from current content and not expect old content to be revamped.

I think that is part of my point. What are they doing for people like us? What current content is there?

They keep adding beginner content, and more convenience and acceleration of pet levelling. Which is nice for beginners, and I do want to see more people enjoying pets, so that's good.

You don't need anything like 800. I think 50-100 pets, if they're the right ones, will get you through all PvP and PvE content easily, and the number of people who have those 50-100 is quite large now, and growing rapidly thanks to how easy early roster development has been made.

But apart from a few quest/family combos in Family Familiar, all the Legion PvE content has been faceroll for anyone with a solid roster. And PvE content is about to die entirely, with the spread of that tdBattlePetScript addon.

And PvP, which at least doesn't get any easier with time, has had its reward eaten by inflation, with no new incentives or milestones added.

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Re: PvP rewards

Postby Rosqo » July 9th, 2017, 4:14 pm

Drudatz wrote:
Quintessence wrote:Perhaps it's time for a new pet PVP weekly quest?
We have new weeklies: WC and DM and in 7.3 the new trainer.

They are pve content.
There hasn't been any new rewards for pvp since probably the critter event becoming a thing.
You can argue the falc pets have a little pvp content and have a reward but kinda stretching it.

There isn't really any reward for players who already have the majority of their pets maxed. Yes stones are useful but not an incentive for these players.

Pets and vanity items are probably the best rewards imo.

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Drudatz
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Re: PvP rewards

Postby Drudatz » July 9th, 2017, 4:53 pm

Rosqo wrote:
Drudatz wrote:
Quintessence wrote:Perhaps it's time for a new pet PVP weekly quest?
We have new weeklies: WC and DM and in 7.3 the new trainer.

They are pve content.
Ok how should that content should look like?
Win 5 pvp battles with aquatic pets?
That doesnt work well for pvp and I am not sure the effort would be worth it in the long run.

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Re: PvP rewards

Postby Quintessence » July 9th, 2017, 5:02 pm

Drudatz wrote:Ok how should that content should look like?


Just tossing out and idea for new/future pet PVP content - take a page from other competitive Blizzard games and add "brawls" set on a weekly rotation. It would probably have to be a separate PVP queue though.

  • One week the quest could be complete (or win) X games using all pets from one family.
  • Another week the quest could involve strategies/teams that can't use DoTs.
  • Maybe a quest where pets can't use heals, or their healing is dampened significantly.
  • And other ideas that might provide more of a challenge/break up monotony.

New pet PVP quests with updated rewards, but of course keeping it optional. ^^;
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Re: PvP rewards

Postby Rosqo » July 9th, 2017, 5:35 pm

As drudas says pets from one family thing doesn't really work in pvp as it's just gonna result in triple teams or easy counters.

They could do stuff like win with all the pets from x achievement but that will just get pets carried in a team for the requisite number of battles.

Maybe a weekly selection of wild pets from the current content zones needing to win x number of games could be an idea? Hopefully a whole zone should provide enough diversity to create several different teams and strategies.

The biggest difficulty is if you go down the road to limit the selection of pets for an achievement you give the opportunity for some players to play with teams such as sunny day teams or others that require specific counters to take advantage of the situation.

Has anyone got any other ideas?

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