Regarding all the complaining about pets in Legion

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Re: Regarding all the complaining about pets in Legion

Post by Jodmos » February 28th, 2017, 7:50 pm

Digem wrote:Be careful with the rep tokens I thought I saw a blue post saying those won't count towards the new rep unfortunately
As for Paragon rep, or just no matter the level but since the new patch?
I gather rep tokens to use them during a Darkmoon Faire. But that's sooner than later. :)[/quote]


From what I gathered the current rep tokens will only work to exalted and anything past exalted will be some sort of new token[/quote]

That's what I've read as well. Pity as the kirin tor tokens are worthless as they aren't even BoA once you get exalted.

I did the hold on to Darkmoon but decided it wasn't worth the bag space. (except for the Talon faction - anything to reduce PVP is worthwhile)

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Re: Regarding all the complaining about pets in Legion

Post by Noel » March 1st, 2017, 9:37 am

Today's PTR datamining has AK50 giving 55200100%...so the grind to max out a spec doesn't seem to be that great actually. Also there's a new book "Artifact Research Compendium: Volumes I-IX" which gives your alt AK45.

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Re: Regarding all the complaining about pets in Legion

Post by Avarre » March 1st, 2017, 10:01 am

I would love to upgrade all my pets to epic compared to this long grindey class restricted pets.

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Re: Regarding all the complaining about pets in Legion

Post by Ziih » March 1st, 2017, 11:44 am

The point I am trying to make in my complaints about the legion DK and Monk pets is this. I don't mind having to work or grind for pets at all as long as I can do it on my priest which is the only class I have played since 2009.
My problem is I don't want to play a monk or a DK. To force players to play a class they have no interest in for several hours to get a pet is really stupid. I play the game to have fun and playing those 2 classes is NOT FUN for me.
I cant understand why blizzard would force us to play classes we have no interest in. If they are trying to make players upset and angry they have done a good job at it. I am considering quitting the game after 8 years of fun and enjoyment. Playing a monk and a DK isn't fun for me and when its not fun anymore I will get out. Thanks blizz for ruining a great game.

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Re: Regarding all the complaining about pets in Legion

Post by Badpathing » March 1st, 2017, 2:52 pm

Ziih wrote:The point I am trying to make in my complaints about the legion DK and Monk pets is this. I don't mind having to work or grind for pets at all as long as I can do it on my priest which is the only class I have played since 2009.
My problem is I don't want to play a monk or a DK. To force players to play a class they have no interest in for several hours to get a pet is really stupid. I play the game to have fun and playing those 2 classes is NOT FUN for me.
I cant understand why blizzard would force us to play classes we have no interest in. If they are trying to make players upset and angry they have done a good job at it. I am considering quitting the game after 8 years of fun and enjoyment. Playing a monk and a DK isn't fun for me and when its not fun anymore I will get out. Thanks blizz for ruining a great game.
Everything you just expressed is about you. Blizz isn't forcing you to do anything. You choose to collect all the pets, and as a consequence of that choice you will have to play other classes to do so. I am OK playing the other classes to get those pets as I also choose to collect all the pets. So we have just established that there are at least 1 of each of those two types of person.

There are many more types as well and Blizz presumably has tons of data, that we don't, which dictates content they design. You or I cannot make claims such as "most players" or "most collectors" as we simply cannot support that with data. It's not in their interest to make content that alienates a large portion of the player base so I would give them the benefit of the doubt. Considering the success of wow, I'll go out on a limb here and say "I think Blizz has some notion of what they are doing".

A majority of the arguments here seem quite willing to ignore the notion that 1) not every pet put into the game is specifically for you and 2) your play style may not be the prevalent/popular demographic they are targeting. Consider mounts or toys even; there are plenty of examples of those that are outright inaccessible or push you into another class/profession/etc. Pets are a fun content reward growing into different activities. It's a good thing.

I think the sooner the dissenters get comfortable with the fact that the game is changing in all aspects, to include pets, the sooner you can enjoy the game or, simply move on.
Last edited by Badpathing on March 1st, 2017, 3:36 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Regarding all the complaining about pets in Legion

Post by Badpathing » March 1st, 2017, 2:57 pm

Noel wrote:Today's PTR datamining has AK50 giving 55200100%...so the grind to max out a spec doesn't seem to be that great actually. Also there's a new book "Artifact Research Compendium: Volumes I-IX" which gives your alt AK45.
Be careful with actual data, it doesn't work very well around here. It will still be called a grind and forced and awful.

I agree with your opinion and I expected this to be the case (grind wise). In a lot of my posts I used the artifact level 34 as a comparison and pointed out how easy it actually is @ AK 25 to get to 34. People seem unwilling (or unable?) to do the transition in their heads, however, and understand that this will be a similar case in 7.2 with the new AK levels.
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Re: Regarding all the complaining about pets in Legion

Post by Badpathing » March 1st, 2017, 11:43 pm

Talalara wrote:I read as much as I could and I am amazed how as pet collectors we are so polarized.

With this game pet collectors are a very different group. WoW players are also a unique brand of players.

Yet for all the time since I have been playing the one thing which made this game so enjoyable is practically & virtually gone.

Socializing, camaraderie, like-minded players.

Pet collecting at first offered a side hustle for those who may have a hard time finding their niche (or clique) in game with any given character. With Archeology, pet collecting and old world content diving, it has keep the game fun for me. I have played the same character from the very beginning but started alts for several reasons. The current & future changes don't dissuade me. I just collect what I can. I have resigned myself there is no chance of reaching a truly unique & competitive collection to engage & enjoy this aspect of collecting. I just love cheering others on & following the leaders on my server like a fan.

I truly miss the playing with people who also enjoy the game. For all the millions of players just in the US I can announce until I am blue in the gills "LFG" or offer for free any runs of any kind and even getting 1 to 2 responses is sporadic. No one wants to do anything with pets, about 75 to 80% of guilds are inactive. For the few active ones most are so "cronied" or clique-ish not many can get in on the fun. This is what is truly affecting the game including collecting. To find a pet collector and talk about pets is no longer something which can be found.

And its ok to go it alone but after a bit it loses its appeal and its just as easy to not play at all. I don't believe this is going to change but as I have said too many times before "I have played too long & paid too much to just leave this game". Blizzard don't care but I just haven't found anything better to do just yet. Pet collecting & all the current & coming changes is a challenge for those who want it & something others may not be interested in but it is something.
I'm sorry this is your experience; it sounds pretty depressing honestly. For what it's worth, I don't feel like the game is in the state you describe at all.
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Re: Regarding all the complaining about pets in Legion

Post by Nagini » March 2nd, 2017, 5:30 am

In the pile of comments and thoughts on the subject, I think that people forget that overall, this expansion has been pretty great for petcollecting. We got additions in all different kinds of area's, from wild pets, to reputation, PvP and class halls, with some unique and really cute models! Not to mention out of the changes coming up, alot of it has been recieved very well by the community. The current concern in the community is exclusively on around 4 pets that are newly introduced with the 7.2 class hall changes. Even before the current pets came out, there was some concern about the class hall pets, but people were willing and did level toons they don't like to play just to get them, so I don't think dismissing people as being "lazy" or not willing to put in the effort is accurate here.
I think the issue with these pets boils down to two things:
- Timing: In the middle of an expansion, we still have a wealth of content to explore and lots of things to do, so a time-sink like the DK pet seems a bit out of place, and may be stressfull when you feel like you have a lot on your plate already in game. Usually, these types of content are perfect for the end of expac, when everyone has had time to level toons and finish up all the things they wanted to do on their mains.

- Trend : My main concern, and the reason to at least put in my two cents whenever this discussion comes up, isn't so much the current set of new class hall pets (though they will definetly take time, i have no DK at the moment), but rather the trend they are setting. The first class hall pets only required a 100-105 toon, with some additional effort/RNG, which would be doable (in my opinion, I can imagine this will take some time if you're exclusively 1 toon only). But if all the future pets were scaled up versions of the current requirements, or even just match these requirements... Who would be able to level 9 classes to 110, -and- do their quests, -and- all their artifacts? I'm aware its a slippery slope argument, and that my concerns may be completely unfounded, but its good to show that for a lot of collectors, this kind of activity on 1-2 toons is already pushing (over) their limit. It is, ofcourse, for Blizzard to decide wheter or not they want these pets to be "Exclusive" or available to a broader audience.

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Re: Regarding all the complaining about pets in Legion

Post by Badpathing » March 2nd, 2017, 11:34 am

Nagini wrote:In the pile of comments and thoughts on the subject, I think that people forget that overall, this expansion has been pretty great for petcollecting. We got additions in all different kinds of area's, from wild pets, to reputation, PvP and class halls, with some unique and really cute models! Not to mention out of the changes coming up, alot of it has been recieved very well by the community. The current concern in the community is exclusively on around 4 pets that are newly introduced with the 7.2 class hall changes. Even before the current pets came out, there was some concern about the class hall pets, but people were willing and did level toons they don't like to play just to get them, so I don't think dismissing people as being "lazy" or not willing to put in the effort is accurate here.
I think the issue with these pets boils down to two things:
- Timing: In the middle of an expansion, we still have a wealth of content to explore and lots of things to do, so a time-sink like the DK pet seems a bit out of place, and may be stressfull when you feel like you have a lot on your plate already in game. Usually, these types of content are perfect for the end of expac, when everyone has had time to level toons and finish up all the things they wanted to do on their mains.

- Trend : My main concern, and the reason to at least put in my two cents whenever this discussion comes up, isn't so much the current set of new class hall pets (though they will definetly take time, i have no DK at the moment), but rather the trend they are setting. The first class hall pets only required a 100-105 toon, with some additional effort/RNG, which would be doable (in my opinion, I can imagine this will take some time if you're exclusively 1 toon only). But if all the future pets were scaled up versions of the current requirements, or even just match these requirements... Who would be able to level 9 classes to 110, -and- do their quests, -and- all their artifacts? I'm aware its a slippery slope argument, and that my concerns may be completely unfounded, but its good to show that for a lot of collectors, this kind of activity on 1-2 toons is already pushing (over) their limit. It is, ofcourse, for Blizzard to decide wheter or not they want these pets to be "Exclusive" or available to a broader audience.
While I agree that having all classes gate a pet or two or more behind similar grinds to the DK would be excessive, and tbh...boring and non-creative, we must keep in mind one simple fact.

We are pet collectors on a pet collection forum discussing pets for a game, that is not 100% about those things. Meaning, it's feasible and reasonable that pets can be added to the game without our particular habits in mind.

In other words, not all pets are put into the game solely for pet collectors.

I'm not taking some hard-line stance of "suck it up buttercup", I'm just acknowledging that part of what makes this game so successful is that it appeals to so many different types of people who all have their own individual types of game-play. Instead, I consider pushing pets into other players hands who might not be collectors as a potential investment in the future of pets.

If more players get interested in pets, then it stands to reason that more pet-related content will start to show up in game.

Pets are unique compared to other collectibles in that there is an entire sub-game beyond the collection aspect; pet battles. So bringing in more players sets the stage for more innovation in an area ripe for evolution.

I don't want to see Blizz make lazy grinds, but I don't mind unique grinds personally. Case-in-point, the dual prestige pets; I see no reason to make the grind faction based and have said so many times on this forum. I think it breaks a reasonable expectation and lacks creativity on the devs part. Simply make the prestige pets faction-swappable like the moonkin pet.
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Re: Regarding all the complaining about pets in Legion

Post by Kiella » March 2nd, 2017, 3:02 pm

Talalara wrote:I truly miss the playing with people who also enjoy the game. For all the millions of players just in the US I can announce until I am blue in the gills "LFG" or offer for free any runs of any kind and even getting 1 to 2 responses is sporadic. No one wants to do anything with pets, about 75 to 80% of guilds are inactive. For the few active ones most are so "cronied" or clique-ish not many can get in on the fun. This is what is truly affecting the game including collecting. To find a pet collector and talk about pets is no longer something which can be found.
Have you tried joining the family of WCP guilds on Madoran (I see you're playing on a US server)? There are almost always a few of us on and happy to talk about pets, no matter the hour. My characters are in Magical Menagerie, but there is also WarcraftPets, Littlest Pet League, Dead Mole Society and Pet Peeves, and we all share a common guild chat with the Greenwall addon. Feel free to whisper anyone in any of the guilds for an invite :)

Also feel free to add my btag to share any random pet-related thoughts- it's Elena#1284.

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Re: Regarding all the complaining about pets in Legion

Post by Uduwudu » March 3rd, 2017, 7:50 pm

Talalara wrote:I read as much as I could and I am amazed how as pet collectors we are so polarized.
...


I have to agree and the wideness of the discussion and ideas is a great example.
Talalara wrote: ...
Socializing, camaraderie, like-minded players.
...
I miss the days when once or twice a week we all got together and had a "beer" (so to speak) and put on our headset, ignited our software and did a raid or two in the midst of good and bad jokes and all kinds of bologni and what not.

When this dies, and our huge guild began falling apart, we made a new guild with some of us, but Babs is busy with grandkids, I'm busy with nothing, John is busy with ???, and it's like ... we are not there in the evenings anymore, but we get online and play some.

Pet Battles, for me, has kept me interested since the gear grind and improvements to get to raids are not worth it anymore since you are rarely with friends that you know and would normally be yapping with! So, I ended up being a solo artist from being a healer on raids for over 10 years, and collecting pets. I enjoyed that part and then learning which to use and what not ... thanks to websites like this one.
Talalara wrote: ...
With Archeology, pet collecting and old world content diving, it has keep the game fun for me. I have played the same character from the very beginning but started alts for several reasons.
...
The only thing I found bad about pets in other Professions, was that it took away from the rest of the game for you to go do something else, which is probably OK for a bit, but dries up quickly. For example, I want to get the Crawling Craw and even though I am at the top in Archaeology, arriving at Uldum and not see a single node is ... frustrating. So you do a round of Tanaris, Un'goro, Thousand Needles, Dustworst Marsh, Southern Barrens, Stonetalon, Desolace, Feralas, Silithus and then Uldum, and you might get one digsite if you are lucky ... and when you arrive at Uldum ... still nothing! And a couple of hours later you do the same circle for the same result ...

How many times do you have to get punished with nothing, before you lose interest?

And that would suggest something like ... this is old content anyway, why aren't you doing Legion and Hall upgrades?

And the same goes for any pets off any other Profession. I would rather they were removed, than have to go through a grind, and I might get the Crawling Craw next year ... since the Crates they used to give you have been nerf'd and you can not get a site to dig! I mean, it might even be more fun to have to kill Ogre's 10 times each just to get one Manafiend bugger ...

All in all, it's still OK and fun. But the reality of searching/getting more pets from the other classes, I would rather they put a limit on these ... like 5 of them, so you would not be forced to play something you do not want to or don't enjoy, just to get the crazy pet. And, a suggestion might also be that you can get three of them, and the last two you can select which ones you want ... kind of thing ... so this way, you don't feel cheated and taken advantage of. But I'm not playing a Paladin, a Monk and a Rogue! Just not my style and I play enough of a variety already!

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Re: Regarding all the complaining about pets in Legion

Post by Gwenolyn » March 7th, 2017, 12:10 pm

I'm afraid I'm going to have to have a max level of every class for all expansions from now on, to get all the pets/mounts. :shock:

I need more character slots...

PS: Maybe I'll love the DK etc. But what if I don't?

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Re: Regarding all the complaining about pets in Legion

Post by Badpathing » March 15th, 2017, 3:20 pm

Gwenolyn wrote:I'm afraid I'm going to have to have a max level of every class for all expansions from now on, to get all the pets/mounts. :shock:

I need more character slots...

PS: Maybe I'll love the DK etc. But what if I don't?
I mean, if you don't, you don't. Sometimes collecting is hard/challenging. As it should be.
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Re: Regarding all the complaining about pets in Legion

Post by Mehetabel » March 15th, 2017, 3:48 pm

Talalara wrote:I truly miss the playing with people who also enjoy the game. For all the millions of players just in the US I can announce until I am blue in the gills "LFG" or offer for free any runs of any kind and even getting 1 to 2 responses is sporadic. No one wants to do anything with pets, about 75 to 80% of guilds are inactive. For the few active ones most are so "cronied" or clique-ish not many can get in on the fun. This is what is truly affecting the game including collecting. To find a pet collector and talk about pets is no longer something which can be found.
Those people ARE still out there, trust me! I've spent the last 9 years in the most fantastic and still very active guild. It's a raid guild but with people who have many other varied interests in the game. We have a lot of hardcore pet collectors too . . . probably about 4/5 of us are usually in the server top 20 for pets and there are others who are not so focussed but still enjoy it. We often monopolise guild chat with pet-talk! :lol:

Places like this do still exist, you just need to keep looking and not give up hope! :)
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Re: Regarding all the complaining about pets in Legion

Post by Mirith » March 17th, 2017, 11:22 am

Badpathing wrote:
Gwenolyn wrote:I'm afraid I'm going to have to have a max level of every class for all expansions from now on, to get all the pets/mounts. :shock:

I need more character slots...

PS: Maybe I'll love the DK etc. But what if I don't?
I mean, if you don't, you don't. Sometimes collecting is hard/challenging. As it should be.
You say hard/challenging, that is one thing, but what if it just isn't fun. Also none of the new requirements are "challenging" its just long.

Really there are the major sources of complaints comes down comes down to a change in expectation. Before Legion, you could collect every pet on a single character, or two characters one horde and one Alliance, regardless of class or race. Unless I'm missing something, you can buy off the AH all of the race specific ones. Now, you MUST play an alt to achieve these pets. Initially, you had to play an alt up to the point of completing some basic stuff, which most people felt was fine (Sure, you have to level an alt to 105 or 110). Now you have to dedicate a significant amount of time to specific classes to achieve this result, very much narrowing what you need to tolerate to do something. So not only did they add requiring alts to get a pet, they are requiring you to do significant investment into those alts.

I personally feel like there is a disconnect between the current design philosophy towards pets and what the community (or at least this community) desires. Where Blizzard sees pets as a reward for other stuff, this community sees it as a end itself, and it feels like Blizzard is ignoring this. I don't know what percentage of the population this community is, so I don't know how important our voice is, and maybe we are just such a small minority we aren't important enough to consider.

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Re: Regarding all the complaining about pets in Legion

Post by Minivivi » March 19th, 2017, 9:17 pm

I personally feel like there is a disconnect between the current design philosophy towards pets and what the community (or at least this community) desires. Where Blizzard sees pets as a reward for other stuff, this community sees it as a end itself, and it feels like Blizzard is ignoring this. I don't know what percentage of the population this community is, so I don't know how important our voice is, and maybe we are just such a small minority we aren't important enough to consider.
I read a blue tweet about a year ago discussing percentages of players who PvPed, archeology, professions, mount collecting, etc. Approximately 1% of the wow subscriber base at that time were pet collectors.

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Re: Regarding all the complaining about pets in Legion

Post by Jemis » March 20th, 2017, 1:26 pm

Mirith wrote:
Badpathing wrote:
Gwenolyn wrote:I'm afraid I'm going to have to have a max level of every class for all expansions from now on, to get all the pets/mounts. :shock:

I need more character slots...

PS: Maybe I'll love the DK etc. But what if I don't?
I mean, if you don't, you don't. Sometimes collecting is hard/challenging. As it should be.
You say hard/challenging, that is one thing, but what if it just isn't fun. Also none of the new requirements are "challenging" its just long.

Really there are the major sources of complaints comes down comes down to a change in expectation. Before Legion, you could collect every pet on a single character, or two characters one horde and one Alliance, regardless of class or race. Unless I'm missing something, you can buy off the AH all of the race specific ones. Now, you MUST play an alt to achieve these pets. Initially, you had to play an alt up to the point of completing some basic stuff, which most people felt was fine (Sure, you have to level an alt to 105 or 110). Now you have to dedicate a significant amount of time to specific classes to achieve this result, very much narrowing what you need to tolerate to do something. So not only did they add requiring alts to get a pet, they are requiring you to do significant investment into those alts.

I personally feel like there is a disconnect between the current design philosophy towards pets and what the community (or at least this community) desires. Where Blizzard sees pets as a reward for other stuff, this community sees it as a end itself, and it feels like Blizzard is ignoring this. I don't know what percentage of the population this community is, so I don't know how important our voice is, and maybe we are just such a small minority we aren't important enough to consider.
I think it's important to remember that it's nice for people to get perks for other play styles that aren't yours, too. This is the first time in a long time we've seen an actual perk for people who play alts- there are achievements for running multiple classes through the quests, and now with the pets and toys there are tangible benefits to keeping up with different classes.

Some people don't raid and aren't hardcore pet and mount collectors, but do focus on playing all the classes and specs. This is supposed to be a perk for those people, rather than a detraction from hardcore collectors.

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Re: Regarding all the complaining about pets in Legion

Post by Mirith » March 20th, 2017, 4:04 pm

Jemis wrote: I think it's important to remember that it's nice for people to get perks for other play styles that aren't yours, too. This is the first time in a long time we've seen an actual perk for people who play alts- there are achievements for running multiple classes through the quests, and now with the pets and toys there are tangible benefits to keeping up with different classes.

Some people don't raid and aren't hardcore pet and mount collectors, but do focus on playing all the classes and specs. This is supposed to be a perk for those people, rather than a detraction from hardcore collectors.
I realize that we are a small group of players, but to counter your point, why gate people who want to play pet battles on achieving a level of commitment on an alt/class/spec that they find no fun to play. Especially, when until Legion, they were clearly avoiding that.

Pets are mechanically different than a mount, title, and most toys. Those don't have a mechanical difference to some aspect of the game, just cosmetic. Toys generally are cosmetic, and even those that are not do not impact the game in a meaningful way, so it is still a matter of showing off or convenience. Pets, on the other hand, have game play associated with them. Maybe, it will turn out that one of the new DK whelplings will have some amazing configuration that wipes the board in certain encounters. If the pet was just "Hey look at what I did", I'd have absolutely no issue on this design, however, even if it turns out that all 5 gated pets are mechanically trash, it is still an issue it demonstrates a significant change in design philosophy on the developers for this particular game play element, where it feels to me like the developers don't really care about Pet battles, and wish they had kept it not as a mini-game, but as a collection.

That being said, it is consistent with the overall design philosophy of Legion WoW, which is "you can never be done". I'm not saying its not a valid business model, but it gets frustrating to not be able to complete a thing, and be able to set it aside with a sense of accomplishment.

PS, this is a rant about my opinions and the rationale behind them. I realize I could "just not play", in which case the developers have failed at their job. I also don't mind playing melee, but take issue with inconsistent design philosophies that make the game less fun to play, and my goal would be to discourage such behavior. Not that this post will help it much, but who knows.

TL;DR: Perks for a person shouldn't impact game play for other people.

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Re: Regarding all the complaining about pets in Legion

Post by Maizing » March 21st, 2017, 12:50 pm

Sharna wrote:
Maizing wrote:I also have no issue with the occasional pet that is obtained by doing content unrelated to pet battles (such as [pet]Clock'em[/pet]) for those willing to do that content.
I don't mind doing long-winded slogs, especially if I can do it as a group activity with friends, but what I don't like is content I find impossible to complete. I play healers and however many expansions on it is now, I still haven't been able to find a way to succeed in getting the Brawlers' guild pet. And now there's a second one...
Yeah. I will not be getting the second one. I hate the Brawler's Guild with a passion and never did more that the bare minimum of what I needed for [pet]Clock'em[/pet] when it was first introduced. I almost didn't get that much done before they revamped it for Warlords.

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