LF Feedback: PetScore & non-combat companions

Report bugs and share your ideas to improve WarcraftPets.
Post Reply
User avatar
Quintessence
Site Admin
Posts: 2560
Joined: June 4th, 2008
Pet Score: 10016
Realm: Proudmoore-US
Contact:

LF Feedback: PetScore & non-combat companions

Post by Quintessence » October 4th, 2017, 2:21 am

We're looking for feedback on non-combat companions and how they are calculated into your personal WarcraftPets PetScore.

Non-combat companions include any pet that cannot enter battle. On WarcraftPets these types of pets are considered Rare (blue) by default, and are calculated as such into your PetScore. Because these companions cannot enter battle and cannot be leveled up, they are all also considered level 1 by default.

This can (and has) caused some confusion though. For example: Members with the same number of collected pets, same number of rare quality pets, same number of max level pets, can end up with PetScores that do not match due to the fact that non-combat companions are worth 1 less point vs. one level 25 pet.

We can address this situation in a few ways:
  • 1.) Count non-combat companions as level 25 by default, and calculate them into the PetScore as such.
    2.) Exclude non-combat companions from the 'Sum of all unique pet levels' part of the equation, but keep them as part of the 'Total rare pets' portion.
    3.) Do not change anything, leave it as is.
Any change made will be far-reaching and impact everyone's PetScore, so we are not taking this lightly. We want to keep the PetScore easy to understand at a glance and not over complicate it.

So we'd greatly appreciate feedback from YOU, the community. Please leave your thoughts/ideas for us to review and consider.
  • Q: Do you find the current PetScore system confusing? If so, why/how?
  • Q: How would you like to see non-combat pets treated in terms of scoring?
  • Q: Would a change such as options 1 and 2 listed above make it easier or harder to understand the scoring system?
Any other suggestions regarding this topic are also welcome for discussion!
Image
Feel free to browse through my pet collecting blog: http://wowpetaddiction.blogspot.com

User avatar
Jerebear
Posts: 1160
Joined: September 15th, 2013
Pet Score: 9470
Realm: Llane-US
Contact:

Re: LF Feedback: PetScore & non-combat companions

Post by Jerebear » October 4th, 2017, 7:54 am

Since they are still part of a collection, I would definitely count them in some way. I would suggest just count them for max points (level 25, rare quality). The effort needed to get a pet to blue quality and level 25 is minimal these days, so automatically counting non combat pets this way seems reasonable to me.
Carry Pet Experience Reference Guide:
http://www.warcraftpets.com/community/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=8829

User avatar
Lordy
Posts: 59
Joined: January 4th, 2017
Pet Score: 9888
Realm: Silvermoon-EU
Contact:

Re: LF Feedback: PetScore & non-combat companions

Post by Lordy » October 4th, 2017, 7:54 am

I think the scoring system is fairly easy to understand as it is but if any change were to be made option 1 would seem to make the most sense.

If you have done everything you can possibly do to each pet to maximise their rarity and level they probably do deserve an equal contribution to the totals. After all some of those pets require a massive investment of time to obtain. I think for example a dutiful squire requiring more PvP time than I would ever consider putting in should be worth at least as much as a rabbit you can catch in 30 seconds in any low level zone.

User avatar
Gráinne
Posts: 832
Joined: July 7th, 2015
Pet Score: 9323
Realm: Magtheridon-EU
Contact:

Re: LF Feedback: PetScore & non-combat companions

Post by Gráinne » October 4th, 2017, 9:44 pm

Quintessence wrote:Members with the same number of collected pets, same number of rare quality pets, same number of max level pets, can end up with PetScores that do not match due to the fact that non-combat companions are worth 1 less point vs. one level 25 pet.
I've been trying to unpack this. Forgive the math nerdiness, but that would be true anyway, if there were also partially levelled pets to take into account.

What I think you see as the problem is that a [pet]Dutiful Squire[/pet] can never have the same contribution to PetScore as an [pet]Anubisath Idol[/pet], because it can never be levelled. Is that it?

The first thing I want to say is that I won't be upset by any decision on this point. While PetScore is nice, I would judge my roster on battle capability, which depends on Moveset/Breed availability; others would also take skins and colours into account. And I'm never going to be competitive on PetScore anyway. :) So I have no objection to any choice here.

If the problem is the [pet]Dutiful Squire[/pet] vs. the [pet]Anubisath Idol[/pet] case, consider

A has only the Squire (Rare)

B has only the Idol (Rare), levelled to 25

A's PetScore is 5. B's PetScore is 6.

Suggestion 1 would make both PetScores 6.

Suggestion 2 would leave A's PetScore 5, B's PetScore 6. (Is that an actual change?)

Have I misunderstood the question?
Last edited by Gráinne on October 6th, 2017, 9:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Peterc
Posts: 103
Joined: January 12th, 2014
Pet Score: 5382
Realm: Outland-EU
Contact:

Re: LF Feedback: PetScore & non-combat companions

Post by Peterc » October 5th, 2017, 6:59 am

Gráinne wrote:
Quintessence wrote:Members with the same number of collected pets, same number of rare quality pets, same number of max level pets, can end up with PetScores that do not match due to the fact that non-combat companions are worth 1 less point vs. one level 25 pet.
I've been trying to unpack this. Forgive the math nerdiness, but that would be true anyway, if there were also partially levelled pets to take into account.

What I think you see as the problem is that a [pet]Dutiful Squire[/pet] can never have the same contribution to PetScore as an [pet]Anubisath Idol[/pet], because it can never be levelled. Is that it?

The first thing I want to say is that I won't be upset by any decision on this point. While PetScore is nice, I would judge my roster on battle capability, which depends on Moveset/Breed availability; others would also take skins and colours into account. And I'm never going to be competitive on PetScore anyway. :) So I have no objection to any choice here.

If the problem is the [pet]Dutiful Squire[/pet] vs. the [pet]Anubisath Idol[/pet] case, consider

A has only the Squire (Rare)

B has only the Idol (Rare), levelled to 25

A's PetScore is 5.04. B's PetScore is 6.

Suggestion 1 would make both PetScores 6.

Suggestion 2 would make A's PetScore 5, B's PetScore 6.

Have I misunderstood the question?
No idea :0

I vote for option 1 - as someone else said some of the non combative pets can be harder to get.

User avatar
Quintessence
Site Admin
Posts: 2560
Joined: June 4th, 2008
Pet Score: 10016
Realm: Proudmoore-US
Contact:

Re: LF Feedback: PetScore & non-combat companions

Post by Quintessence » October 5th, 2017, 7:17 am

Gráinne wrote:What I think you see as the problem is that a [pet]Dutiful Squire[/pet] can never have the same contribution to PetScore as an [pet]Anubisath Idol[/pet], because it can never be levelled. Is that it?
Correct.

User A and B both have 544 pets.
They both have 544 rare quality pets.
All pets that can be leveled are level 25. (Average Pet Level = 25.0)
At first glance, one would think they should have the same PetScore, yet User A has 1 point less than User B. This can lead to confusion, and we're looking into how we can fix that.

At the moment we're considering counting non-combat companions as level 25 by default. But there are other options, and we're open to additional suggestions.
Image
Feel free to browse through my pet collecting blog: http://wowpetaddiction.blogspot.com

User avatar
Gráinne
Posts: 832
Joined: July 7th, 2015
Pet Score: 9323
Realm: Magtheridon-EU
Contact:

Re: LF Feedback: PetScore & non-combat companions

Post by Gráinne » October 5th, 2017, 7:30 pm

OK, I think I understand. (Edit: I didn't. Maybe I still don't :) )

So the choice is between:

1. count the companion as a level 25 pet, even though it isn't one.

2. don't credit the companion with any levels.

3. don't credit the companion with any levels.

I don't think there's a perfect answer. For what it's worth, I think the current treatment (3), is less confusing than the others.
Last edited by Gráinne on October 6th, 2017, 9:30 pm, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
Minivivi
MVP
Posts: 82
Joined: January 26th, 2015
Pet Score: 10052
Realm: Medivh-US
Contact:

Re: LF Feedback: PetScore & non-combat companions

Post by Minivivi » October 5th, 2017, 8:29 pm

Being a member that has the one less point and having spent untold hours trying to figure out why...well, I would like to have a more level playing field most certainly. But having said that, I will respect whatever route is chosen. Having access to this wonderful site is reward enough.

User avatar
Suutar
Posts: 1
Joined: July 16th, 2015
Pet Score: 6825
Realm: Medivh-US
Contact:

Re: LF Feedback: PetScore & non-combat companions

Post by Suutar » October 5th, 2017, 10:10 pm

I personally have sometimes found it confusing that non-combat pets aren't considered to be "at max level", because I think of them as at the max they can reach. This causes me to wonder why my at-max number and my unique pets number aren't equal until I remember. But I don't think it's a big deal, so I'm fine with leaving it or changing it.

User avatar
Nagini
Top Rater
Posts: 149
Joined: January 27th, 2013
Pet Score: 9307
Realm: Kael'thas-US
Contact:

Re: LF Feedback: PetScore & non-combat companions

Post by Nagini » October 6th, 2017, 4:01 am

Maybe instead of asking for comments, it would be good to also make a poll about this? Voting might be easier to count then comments where people discus their pro's and cons to multiple entries, and people who still don't really understand might not say anything.

That said, I'm in favor of counting them and changing them to max lvl. They are the "maximum" level they can reach.

User avatar
Sonso
Posts: 19
Joined: February 6th, 2013
Pet Score: 9856
Realm: Exodar-US
Contact:

Re: LF Feedback: PetScore & non-combat companions

Post by Sonso » October 6th, 2017, 8:17 am

I like option 1. It doesn't matter whither you catch a rabbit in 30 sec and level it or spend months and months getting a pvp non combat pet you've given all the effort possible for that one pet. Even the lowly balloons deserve to be appreciated. Just saying if we could level them we would. It's what pet collectors do.

User avatar
Gráinne
Posts: 832
Joined: July 7th, 2015
Pet Score: 9323
Realm: Magtheridon-EU
Contact:

Re: LF Feedback: PetScore & non-combat companions

Post by Gráinne » October 6th, 2017, 5:27 pm

Nagini, perhaps people who don't understand the question shouldn't be voting? :P

I didn't understand the question until I mathed it out yesterday. (Apparently I still don't!) I started with a spreadsheet, assuming that the anomaly related to some combination of many pets that happened to yield the result Quintessence was talking about. It took me a good half-hour to realise it boiled down to a simple case.

Currently, you get

2 points for collecting a pet of a species

3 points for getting/making that pet Blue

1 point for levelling that pet to 25.

Those quality and level scores actually don't seem right to me these days, if we are measuring by difficulty or completeness. It costs a maximum of 15 Pet Charms to make a pet Blue, but a maximum of 45 to make it level 25. Blue-ing a pet is now very cheap. I suggest that is a problem with the Pet Charms currency rather than with the system, but nevertheless we have to recognise that the devs have changed the rules, making Blues a whooooole lot easier to get now than they were in Mists.

How you value a collection is of course subjective, and that means that no scoring system will be ideal for everyone. Some people will prioritise battle capability. Some will consider how many colours/appearances a pet can have. Neither of these considerations is taken into account in this system.

While levelling a pet is now too easy, once you have got into the swing of the level-25 rounds and Pet Charm earning, the effort is still not zero. It seems appropriate to assign some weight to that.
Last edited by Gráinne on October 6th, 2017, 9:28 pm, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
Gráinne
Posts: 832
Joined: July 7th, 2015
Pet Score: 9323
Realm: Magtheridon-EU
Contact:

Re: LF Feedback: PetScore & non-combat companions

Post by Gráinne » October 6th, 2017, 9:23 pm

I apologise. For some reason, I had thought that non-battle pet Companions were deemed to be Level 1. Now I think they are all more consistently treated as having no level.

I will amend my posts accordingly.

Further edit: to make sure my understanding is now right, I tried reconciling my own PetScore.

The site and I agree that I have 871 unique Blue Level 25 pets. That's 5226 PetScore.

I have 15 Companions on the character I nominated. 10 are Rare; 5 are Uncommon, and can't be made Rare (I tried). That should be 10*5 + 5*4, by my understanding, but in fact I can only reach my 5301 quoted by the site if I treat all 15 as Rare, to make 15*5 = 75. So I assume all non-battle Companions are counted as Rare?

Then I guess if we give non-battle Greens an honorary bump to Blue, we might as well give them an honorary bump to 25 as well?

Where's the wine? I've earned it! :)

User avatar
Dalandius
Posts: 107
Joined: November 9th, 2014
Pet Score: 9880
Realm: Earthen Ring-US
Contact:

Re: LF Feedback: PetScore & non-combat companions

Post by Dalandius » October 7th, 2017, 10:31 am

Once back when we started being able to battle with pets we could level and improve the non combat pets with the stones. The armory has never exported non combat as anything other than their default state. They took away the ability to upgrade and level them some time ago but did not announce it at the time.

What I would love is if they allowed you up upgrade and level your non combat pets with stones again and also have the armoury export the correct state of the pets. Until such a time as this happens then option one is a good idea unless Quintessence can get them to fix them :)

User avatar
Ranok
MVP
Posts: 360
Joined: June 12th, 2013
Pet Score: 9671
Realm: Undermine-US
Contact:

Re: LF Feedback: PetScore & non-combat companions

Post by Ranok » October 7th, 2017, 6:41 pm

Quintessence wrote:
1.) Count non-combat companions as level 25 by default, and calculate them into the PetScore as such.
Seems to me to be the cleanest fix. Admit I'm a bit biased, never saw any point in raising non-combat pets to 25 back when we could do it so now my rating suffers a bit in comparison to a pet collector who did stone them up.

User avatar
Quintessence
Site Admin
Posts: 2560
Joined: June 4th, 2008
Pet Score: 10016
Realm: Proudmoore-US
Contact:

Re: LF Feedback: PetScore & non-combat companions

Post by Quintessence » October 7th, 2017, 9:25 pm

Ranok wrote:
Quintessence wrote:
1.) Count non-combat companions as level 25 by default, and calculate them into the PetScore as such.
Seems to me to be the cleanest fix. Admit I'm a bit biased, never saw any point in raising non-combat pets to 25 back when we could do it so now my rating suffers a bit in comparison to a pet collector who did stone them up.
Your PetScore shouldn't be impacted if you stoned/didn't stone your non-combat companions. These pets are currently counted as level 1 by default for everyone, even if you used battlestones to level them up to 25 when that was possible. Leveling non-combat pets was purely a personal, individual goal/achievement that had zero effect on your WarcraftPets PetScore.
Image
Feel free to browse through my pet collecting blog: http://wowpetaddiction.blogspot.com

User avatar
Paladance
Posts: 999
Joined: July 18th, 2015
Pet Score: 8720
Realm: Burning Legion-EU
Contact:

Re: LF Feedback: PetScore & non-combat companions

Post by Paladance » October 8th, 2017, 2:38 am

The Pet Score is not really my cup of tea either. I won't oppose the majority. :)

I had a thought that there could be given a choice through selecting respective tickboxes in one's profile, but I can imagine it would be technically implausible to recalculate or store multiple scores each time someone logs in. ;)
Image

User avatar
Shashos
Posts: 49
Joined: May 28th, 2011
Pet Score: 9687
Realm: Doomhammer-US
Contact:

Re: LF Feedback: PetScore & non-combat companions

Post by Shashos » October 8th, 2017, 4:53 am

Option 1 to raise the non-combats to level 25 seems the best to me. Really though, any solution that makes it less confusing. Since they can't be leveled anyway, having them default to the same number for everyone, regardless of actual level would be best.

User avatar
Miatog
Posts: 18
Joined: May 26th, 2011
Pet Score: 7786
BattleTag®: Miatog#1846
Realm: Wyrmrest Accord-US
Contact:

Re: LF Feedback: PetScore & non-combat companions

Post by Miatog » October 9th, 2017, 6:00 am

I know that rare stones and 25 stones can be used on non-combat, does this show up via armory?

If so I think it would be best to treat them like normal and let people use stones on them for full points.
If the rarity but not the level then give us the 1 point for the level and let us stone for the full points.
If none of it shows up then give us full points.

EDIT: So I just found out this isn't possible any more...I say full points for them!

Post Reply