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Two things

Discuss pet battles, strategy and theorycrafting.
Sprung
 
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Two things

Postby Sprung » December 7th, 2017, 11:49 am

Hello fellow Pet Battlers!

I am unsure if this has been asked before?. The Magma Rageling amongst others has the ability "Fire Shield" which with the Rageling causes direct enemy attacks to cause 282 damage each attack. It seems that its bugged (or mayvbe its meant to be that way?)

Pets with abilities that hit more than once do not die within their move, so for example if I had a rabbit with 10 HP and Flurry vs Magma Rageling and Fire Shield. Rabbit goes first hits the Rageling 3 times, after the first hit the rabbit takes 282 damage but does not die and gets his last two hits off before death?

On a slightly more contencious note. I have been getting frustrated recently with opponents prolonging games they could not possibly loose.

Say I was down to my last pet with low HP vs enemy team with 3 full HP pets (extreme example) increasingly I am finding oppenents will use Dodge, or Evade abilities which just prolongs the game unnecessarily - the opponent has no need to dodge or evade they just need to hit you to win. Its petty I know but I just quit every game now where this happens. I do not like my time being wasted.

*** Actually 3 things.
Some of the adds on this site are malicious. I can provide the code and logs from my AV which detail them as potential harmful. How do I go about reporting this?

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Drlambda
 
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Re: Two things

Postby Drlambda » December 7th, 2017, 12:46 pm

1. Currently, all reflect shields work like this on multihits, so i'd say it's not a bug per se, but more of a nonintuitive rule you have to know. Sadly, pet battles right now are full of that.
2. Of course i can't speak for your opponents here, but i will only make a game quick if it is 100% sure that i'll win it that way. Even if it's really unlikely, if there is a chance i can lose by making the battle go faster, i'll absolutely go for the slower play. Of course, if someone dodges with a rabbit when the opponent would die to a flurry, that's just rubbing it in.
CloseToZero - Watch me lose on youtube with bad pets! :D

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Dalandius
 
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Re: Two things

Postby Dalandius » December 7th, 2017, 8:04 pm

Or that person is running a script to automatically pick the move for them.

Q8e192
 
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Re: Two things

Postby Q8e192 » December 7th, 2017, 10:33 pm

At the very least, if you are on the losing team, you can quit with the same result as a loss.
But its even worse if you are winning and then the losing team AFKs.

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Rosqo
 
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Re: Two things

Postby Rosqo » December 8th, 2017, 2:39 am

So point 1: basically the attack will still complete even if the pet that cast it dies to a thorns effect. I get it’s a bit dumb when it’s something like flurry but the game is just coded to always complete the attack.

Point 2: lots of people are super cautious, some don’t know they would kill you and occasionally you get people who gloat I suppose that they won.

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Gráinne
 
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Re: Two things

Postby Gráinne » December 8th, 2017, 3:15 am

1) is thoroughly answered.

I have a counter-question for 2): why didn't you forfeit?

In chess, it's considered rude not to resign when you are in a losing position. Now, in pet battles, there can be A LOT of RNG right down to the last move. I have occasionally missed 3 times in a row in Darkness, for example. So maybe you don't want to resign because you are holding out hope for RNG to save you. But by the same token, your opponent has the right to play cautiously just in case the Gods of Bad RNG aim their lightning bolts at him.

Or maybe your opponent just isn't very experienced, and is playing the move they would play even if they weren't about to win.

Or maybe your opponent isn't paying a lot of attention.

Or maybe your opponent is annoyed that you haven't resigned, and is making a point.

Or maybe other reasons. But you really can't assume gloating as a reason.

I don't believe in the "script" idea. Unless it's something like 3 Serpents, I think a script will almost always lose. I tried to write a few scripts and went into the queue with them. I emphasise that I didn't use that botting addon for the scripts - I just wrote down my moves in advance on my jotter and played them. It was awful. Opponents disrupt even something very formulaic like a Clonedance, and a script will not compensate. It convinced me that you would want something with more intelligence than a simple script to get very far in the PvP queue!

On your added question 3), this site is very well managed, and it wouldn't surprise me if the owner or an admin had already seen it, but this forum viewforum.php?f=4 is the place to ask. Also, don't assume that the ads are malicious; from my experience, it's more likely to be a false positive, but still worth reporting if you have identifying details.

Sprung
 
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Re: Two things

Postby Sprung » December 21st, 2017, 12:45 pm

Thanks for the replies guys.

I didnt consider the script element, its an exteremely poor show in my opionion to use scripts for PvP.

I dont forfiet because well its lame isnt it? If I left every game where I thought I may not win I wouldnt play very many pet battles.

But maybe thats because I refuse to roll the "scummy pets" I dont play the pets that some may consider go to pets to win. Bone Serpent, Tero Claw etc. But again maybe that`s where I go wrong? I`m not in it to win it! a win is of course nice but honestly its so boring rolling the same old OP teams as everyone else does.

I do have to admit to "negative reinforcement" as I like to call it - Roll a Blossoming ancient and two Sunflowers? Expect to wait the entire timer every round and for me to do everything I can to make that game take as long as possible. - These people need to know its not acceptable to roll teams such as these.

I would strongly recommend anyone who rolls the teams you all know I am refeering to, re-evaluates their outlook and priorties in life.

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Gráinne
 
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Re: Two things

Postby Gráinne » December 21st, 2017, 1:06 pm

Well, I don't think it's lame to forfeit.

For example, sometimes the luck of the draw will match you against a team that you have no chance against - you are completely countered. What's the point of wasting your time and your opponent's time?

Or if you are inevitably going to be beaten in two moves, with no way out, again, why waste everyone's time?

Now, we do have to remember that RNG can turn things around, and if we're down to 1v1 in the last pets, and a crit or a mistake from your opponent can save you, then by all means go for it. :) I was just out with a fun team, and I was inevitably going to lose unless my opponent phase shifted when he should. Maybe he wouldn't see it, or would try an immediate kill that wouldn't happen without a crit. So I played on, and as soon as I saw the Phase Shift, I forfeited. It probably only saved 2 or 3 moves, but I certainly don't think it was lame; I think it was the polite thing to do.

Sprung
 
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Re: Two things

Postby Sprung » December 30th, 2017, 8:27 am

I disagree.

Dont get me wrong If I know for certain I cannot win in the first round I will sometimes quit. Never to save a few rounds as you put it. You either quit at the start and requeue or you play the whole game. Have some respect for you opponents who come to play and win through pet battling not by default because the opponent rage quit.

in fact quiting to save 2 or 3 moves is the worst!.

So you played the whole game and then rage quit because you couldnt win effectivly robbing your opponent of a "win" resulting in a win by default for you opponent. Personally I hate that way of thinking. - Not a great outcome for either party really is it.

Dont forget not everyone is desperate for some more numbers in their statistics screen.

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Biscuit
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Re: Two things

Postby Biscuit » December 30th, 2017, 2:54 pm

Sprung wrote:I do have to admit to "negative reinforcement" as I like to call it - Roll a Blossoming ancient and two Sunflowers? Expect to wait the entire timer every round and for me to do everything I can to make that game take as long as possible. - These people need to know its not acceptable to roll teams such as these.

You come here complaining about people wasting your time and then you have the nerve to admit pulling this BS? Wow.
Maybe your opponent didn't like your team and they're trying to "negatively reinforce" you from rolling it again.

Sprung wrote:I dont forfiet because well its lame isnt it? .

No, it actually isn't. As Grainne mentioned, in games like chess where you KNOW you can't possibly win (aside from your opponent going AFK), it's actually lame/rude NOT to resign. Again, why waste time? That's what this thread is about, right?

Sprung wrote:Dont get me wrong If I know for certain I cannot win in the first round I will sometimes quit. Never to save a few rounds as you put it. You either quit at the start and requeue or you play the whole game. Have some respect for you opponents who come to play and win through pet battling not by default because the opponent rage quit.

This makes little to no sense to me. How do you know @round 1 if you're going to win or lose?
By the match-up alone? How do you know your opponent isn't a complete novice and has no clue what they're doing? Do you know how many Bone Serpents I've seen using Lift-Off and D&D? Plenty. Never judge your opponent strictly on the pets they've chosen. I use Blossoming Ancient all the time..with Winds and Stun Seed. You might've forfeited against me before the match even started and never have found out though.

Sprung wrote:in fact quiting to save 2 or 3 moves is the worst!.

So you played the whole game and then rage quit because you couldnt win effectivly robbing your opponent of a "win" resulting in a win by default for you opponent. Personally I hate that way of thinking. - Not a great outcome for either party really is it.

Can you please explain this logic to me? (O_o)???
Are you not "rage quitting" (this is a ridiculous and immature phrase btw) when you forfeit a game @round 1 as you've admitted to doing? You ARE "robbing" them of a win after all.

Sprung wrote:I would strongly recommend anyone who rolls the teams you all know I am refeering to, re-evaluates their outlook and priorties in life.

This is a little much, don't you think? Perhaps a deep breath or two would help.

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Quintessence
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Re: Two things

Postby Quintessence » December 30th, 2017, 8:22 pm

Since PVP discussions can become pretty heated, reminder to all to keep this thread friendly and civil.

Sprung wrote:Some of the adds on this site are malicious. I can provide the code and logs from my AV which detail them as potential harmful. How do I go about reporting this?

For reporting malicious ads: Contact us here (use Site Administration option from the drop down menu), or you can leave a report in the Site Bugs and Suggestions forum.
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Sprung
 
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Re: Two things

Postby Sprung » January 1st, 2018, 11:58 am

Thank you, Quintessence. The voice of reason as always.

Thank you, Biscuit for taking the time to reply and a Happy new year to you!

I definitely could have been more diplomatic but I stand by what I said.

You come here complaining about people wasting your time and then you have the nerve to admit pulling this BS? Wow.
Maybe your opponent didn't like your team and they're trying to "negatively reinforce" you from rolling it again.


Very unlikely for two reasons.
1. I don’t use the play team twice in rotation so there could be up to 30 teams played before I`ll roll the same one again.
2. I don’t play the objectionable pets in PvP. - No BS, TC, TCS, WS etc etc and definitely no BA.

You say its BS? I would argue that rolling a BA heal team is BS in itself and arguably wastes everyone’s time. - It’s a low move why even bother, be more inventive, show some skill. Come up with something a bit different and less predictable?

No, it actually isn't. As Grainne mentioned, in games like chess where you KNOW you can't possibly win (aside from your opponent going AFK), it's actually lame/rude NOT to resign. Again, why waste time? That's what this thread is about, right?


We aren’t playing Chess.

Above point again, Heal teams are arguably the biggest waste of time for both players currently in Pet Battles.

The point I was originally trying to make was around prolonging games unnecessarily was in situations where your opponent has the good grace not to quit because they cant win and actually plays the game as it was intended i.e. Battle.

scenario
Player A has 3 Pets alive
Player B has 1 Pet alive (Rabbit)

Player B has no chance of winning what so ever but decided to use dodge and Burrow. - a waste of time for both parties.

This makes little to no sense to me. How do you know @round 1 if you're going to win or lose?
By the match-up alone? How do you know your opponent isn't a complete novice and has no clue what they're doing? Do you know how many Bone Serpents I've seen using Lift-Off and D&D? Plenty. Never judge your opponent strictly on the pets they've chosen. I use Blossoming Ancient all the time. With Winds and Stun Seed. You might've forfeited against me before the match even started and never have found out though.


1. I never forfeit against a BA team as I said above it’s all about negative reinforcement. (personal best so far is around 400 rounds)
2. Quite easily actually based on playing my set teams 100s of times. - But you are correct in some instances I am sure there could have been a chance, allbeit small for Victory.
3. It’s obvious in a lot of cases, say I was running an entirely Mechanical team and I came up against Lil Ragnaros, Magma Rageling and Pandaran Fire Spirit. The Mechanical team looses 99 / 100 games.

Can you please explain this logic to me? (O_o)???
Are you not "rage quitting" (this is a ridiculous and immature phrase btw) when you forfeit a game @round 1 as you've admitted to doing? You ARE "robbing" them of a win after all.


I haven’t robbed them of anything as the game is over before it starts and they get some free numbers for their stats.

It’s a very different thing to evaluate the teams at the start and then make an informed decision to forfeit at the first round than playing a 20+ round game and then forfeiting in the last round or even worse last move because you cannot win. - Robbing your opponent of the satisfaction of completing the game you agreed to start in the first round.

If everyone followed your rage quitting logic there would be NO games played to completion...

This is a little much, don't you think? Perhaps a deep breath or two would help.


The point I was trying to make is that there is more to pet battles than numbers and winning every game. Think outside the box, be different enjoy the Battles for what they are. Some of the best Pet Battles I have played have resulted in a "loss"....

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Rosqo
 
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Re: Two things

Postby Rosqo » January 1st, 2018, 5:57 pm

I’m sure everyone has at one point either left a match at round one because they’ve had a bad rng match up.

Or when they are loosing quit before the end to prevent just dragging out the game, I think this is the checkmate scenario people are referring to from chess.

Only leaving at the start even has an effect on the opponents rewards as I believe they don’t get xp.

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Biscuit
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Re: Two things

Postby Biscuit » January 1st, 2018, 7:25 pm

Rosqo wrote:I’m sure everyone has at one point either left a match at round one because they’ve had a bad rng match up.

Speaking of this right here, don’t even get Rosqo started on the Family Brawler achievement coming up. haha
There’s going to be so many round 1 forfeits.
I’m more of an optimist, however, and I believe this will only be temporary.

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Gráinne
 
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Re: Two things

Postby Gráinne » January 1st, 2018, 10:00 pm

Sprung wrote:you played the whole game and then rage quit

"Ragequit" is a totally unjustified mischaracterisation, and completely wrong. There was no rage involved. It was just a courtesy.

Sprung wrote:scenario
Player A has 3 Pets alive
Player B has 1 Pet alive (Rabbit)

Yes, this is the interesting case, and a common enough scenario. Not so much an extreme case like 3 pets at full health vs. a rabbit, but perhaps an Idol in a Sandstorm or a full health Crab or Crawdad against a rabbit that is not at full health.

Such a game is completely lost for the rabbit, of course, beyond the farthest reaches of RNG.

Now, the rabbit player has 5 options:

1. Forfeit.

2. Play the game out with the strongest moves he has available, Dodging, prolonging the match with no chance of winning, unless the opponent DCs or AFKs.

3. Pass every move and wait to be killed.

4. Make some futile choice every move, like Flurry, and wait to be killed.

5. Go AFK and leave the opponent waiting out the timer, or make a nonsense move at the last second to stretch out the timer.

The first thing I'd like to say is that I respect the right of the rabbit player to do any of these.

I might do either 1. or 2. depending on my mood and the match. I believe in principle it is always more sportsmanlike to forfeit, but generally the match won't last long enough to matter.

While 3. and 4. are possible, I would never consider doing them. They feel disrespectful.

As for 5, I do think that AFKing is mean-spirited, and might qualify as ragequitting, depending on circumstances. However, the rabbit player doesn't owe my opinion anything, and has every right to "play to the whistle".

I think the difference in our views is in your opinion that in forfeiting I am
Sprung wrote:effectivly robbing your opponent of a "win" resulting in a win by default for you opponent. Personally I hate that way of thinking. - Not a great outcome for either party really is it.


I find your position strange. I don't see resigning as robbing my opponent of anything. It's just a minor courtesy; an acknowledgement that the outcome is inevitable.

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FuxieDK
 
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Re: Two things

Postby FuxieDK » January 2nd, 2018, 6:34 am

Biscuit wrote:
Sprung wrote:I dont forfiet because well its lame isnt it? .

No, it actually isn't. As Grainne mentioned, in games like chess where you KNOW you can't possibly win (aside from your opponent going AFK), it's actually lame/rude NOT to resign. Again, why waste time? That's what this thread is about, right?
I'm probably in minority here, but I think it's rude when people resign.. There should be a penalty (greater than a loss) for resigning and it should increase each time you do it.

Granted, I don't really PvP in Pet Battles (2 wins total, but I do play Hearthstone, and I cringe every time, someone doesn't let me get the killing blow..

Stay until the end and face your demise like an adult, instead of conceding like a baby!!!

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Biscuit
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Re: Two things

Postby Biscuit » January 2nd, 2018, 2:31 pm

[quote=“FuxieDK”]I'm probably in minority here, but I think it's rude when people resign.. [/quote]
Yes, you probably are.

FuxieDK wrote:conceding like a baby!!!

Name-calling is hardly necessary, do you not agree?

FuxieDK wrote:Granted, I don't really PvP in Pet Battles

Interesting. Why are you in this thread then? No offense.

If your opponent forfeits, they’ve admitted defeat, they’ve admitted you bested them. You’ve won.
Why take it further?

It’s like, if you were a boxer and you’re beating your competition so badly that their corner throws the towel in to stop the fight. But, apparently, that’s not good enough for some of you and instead would beat on your helpless opponent mercilessly lest they be a “baby”.
You’ve won. Calm down. Enjoy it. Stop punching your keyboard.

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FuxieDK
 
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Re: Two things

Postby FuxieDK » January 10th, 2018, 4:00 pm

Biscuit wrote:
FuxieDK wrote:Granted, I don't really PvP in Pet Battles

Interesting. Why are you in this thread then? No offense.

Because I see the same thing in e.g. Harthstone and I hate it..

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Drudatz
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Re: Two things

Postby Drudatz » February 7th, 2018, 9:27 am

Sprung wrote:I dont forfiet because well its lame isnt it? If I left every game where I thought I may not win I wouldnt play very many pet battles.
on the contrary! and if you know you lose and quit before the game has lasted longer then 55 seconds I would see a forfit as a tactical move as yes the opponent gets his win but he doesnt get any xp for his toon. :lol:

Sprung wrote:I do have to admit to "negative reinforcement" as I like to call it - Roll a Blossoming ancient and two Sunflowers? Expect to wait the entire timer every round and for me to do everything I can to make that game take as long as possible. - These people need to know its not acceptable to roll teams such as these.
yep I do that too. I stall them as long as possible - most people seem to give up after ~ 1 hour :lol:

Sprung wrote:I would strongly recommend anyone who rolls the teams you all know I am refeering to, re-evaluates their outlook and priorties in life.
:lol: :D :P

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Drudatz
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Re: Two things

Postby Drudatz » February 7th, 2018, 9:32 am

Q8e192 wrote:At the very least, if you are on the losing team, you can quit with the same result as a loss.
But its even worse if you are winning and then the losing team AFKs.

I have been saying this since mop, afkin in pet battles need to have some kind of punishment - like dungeon deserter.

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