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What does and doesn’t get nerfed/fixed

Discuss pet battles, strategy and theorycrafting.
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Rosqo
 
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What does and doesn’t get nerfed/fixed

Postby Rosqo » October 14th, 2017, 2:12 am

After today’s hotfix to the pet treats that provide xp buffs I was wondering why some bugs and quirks seem to get fixed instantly whilst others just get left the same.

We had clone, early advantage and now this recent pet treat thing all changed but haunt, hit modifiers and the two round undead racial all being left broken.

Does anyone know what Blizzard sets their priorities to change abilities against?

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Paladance
 
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Re: What does and doesn’t get nerfed/fixed

Postby Paladance » October 14th, 2017, 4:18 am

…and Surge vs. Charge, and Toxic Skin affecting always front pet no matter who deals damage, and a fact when a pet dies due to one of these effects it still performs remaining hits until the end of the turn…

I can recall certain lists of quirks like that, here, here and there.

There's also another bug I figured out but don't want anyone to abuse it so I won't tell ya that. I reported it some months ago.

It took them more than an expansion to fix Moth Dust suspending a critter. Perhaps Gravity (that ability nobody uses) still can root them.
And of course, the Chaos Nova bug, or Sun Darter family not getting a hotfix but being glued to a patch (paraphrasing Golgoth: "It was so important it deserved a main patch" :mrgreen:).

A salt chapel? My dear, it's just salting first so the others don't have to anymore. Accidentally it's also a #noloveforeu, though considering a fact we don't really have a space for discussion about bugs, maybe it's not so accidental? ;-)
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Gilneas
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Re: What does and doesn’t get nerfed/fixed

Postby Gilneas » October 21st, 2017, 1:47 pm

You're really talking about two different things. Things that are bugs that cause a big issue (such as infinitely stacking XP treats) are a priority to be fixed. Other bugs might be less important simply because they are rarer to reproduce and have less of an impact. If something's not working right, but only occurs in specific circumstances that don't come up often, and the results of it not working correctly are negligible, it's "Well it would be nice, but when there's time...".

Then on the other hand, you're also talking about things that are working correctly (i.e., are not bugged), but some people just don't like, or think is too strong. That's largely a matter of opinion, and it's something they're less likely to be quick to change. Particularly when it's been something that's consistently worked correctly for a long time -- e.g., the undead racial (it doesn't last 2 rounds -- it gives them an extra round after the current round in which they first die, the same way rounds are utilized by other abilities in pet battles). Do note that in that case, they did apply some balancing as while the racial is active they now deal 25% less damage, but since it was functioning the way it is supposed to, there was no change to the mechanics.

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Spinning
 
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Re: What does and doesn’t get nerfed/fixed

Postby Spinning » October 21st, 2017, 2:28 pm

Gilneas wrote:Particularly when it's been something that's consistently worked correctly for a long time -- e.g., the undead racial (it doesn't last 2 rounds -- it gives them an extra round after the current round in which they first die, the same way rounds are utilized by other abilities in pet battles).

You have no idea what you are talking about, my friend. There is a bug if let´s say you swap an undead into the minefield, he get two turns, and he should get only one.

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Rosqo
 
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Re: What does and doesn’t get nerfed/fixed

Postby Rosqo » October 21st, 2017, 3:46 pm

I guess you’ve not played many pet battles. Leo has already expanded on the undead racial bug. I can perhaps give an example most people will have experienced.

A bone serpent uses darkness (hit chance reduced by 10% as it’s effected by the weather) then uses bone barrage tooltip will say 70% hit chance but in actual fact only the first hit is 70% the rest of the barrage all remain at 80%. Now this isn’t a bug that is difficult to produce and it literally happens everytime anyone play with or vs a bone serpent. It’s only 10% in this example but any hit reduction will only change the hit % of the first barrage. Common enough?

I’m happy to provide more bugs within the actual pet battle gameplay if you would like there’s a considerable amount. You could always check them before posting though.

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Jerebear
 
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Re: What does and doesn’t get nerfed/fixed

Postby Jerebear » October 21st, 2017, 7:00 pm

Rosqo wrote:A bone serpent uses darkness (hit chance reduced by 10% as it’s effected by the weather) then uses bone barrage tooltip will say 70% hit chance but in actual fact only the first hit is 70% the rest of the barrage all remain at 80%. Now this isn’t a bug that is difficult to produce and it literally happens everytime anyone play with or vs a bone serpent. It’s only 10% in this example but any hit reduction will only change the hit % of the first barrage. Common enough?


I just want to note here that this is an intentional mechanic (or at least was...maybe should be re-evaluated?). It isn't always consistent with some of the (relatively) newer abils, but they specifically nerfed moves like this back in MoP so that only the first hit was affected by hit. Back in the day people were using lucky dance along with abils like this and the moth attack (forget the name) and it was just doing too much damage, so they nerfed it intentionally.
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Spinning
 
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Re: What does and doesn’t get nerfed/fixed

Postby Spinning » October 21st, 2017, 7:08 pm

Jerebear wrote:
Rosqo wrote:A bone serpent uses darkness (hit chance reduced by 10% as it’s effected by the weather) then uses bone barrage tooltip will say 70% hit chance but in actual fact only the first hit is 70% the rest of the barrage all remain at 80%. Now this isn’t a bug that is difficult to produce and it literally happens everytime anyone play with or vs a bone serpent. It’s only 10% in this example but any hit reduction will only change the hit % of the first barrage. Common enough?


I just want to note here that this is an intentional mechanic (or at least was...maybe should be re-evaluated?). It isn't always consistent with some of the (relatively) newer abils, but they specifically nerfed moves like this back in MoP so that only the first hit was affected by hit. Back in the day people were using lucky dance along with abils like this and the moth attack (forget the name) and it was just doing too much damage, so they nerfed it intentionally.

Yea, but now the problem is that since each attack hit % chance is calculated independently, bone barrage breaks decoys and cannot be blinded

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Jerebear
 
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Re: What does and doesn’t get nerfed/fixed

Postby Jerebear » October 21st, 2017, 7:14 pm

I get that. I'm just saying it isn't necessarily a bug. It's intentional even if possibly undesirable. It's more of a design decision. They understand the side effects of that decision and have kept them.
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Spinning
 
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Re: What does and doesn’t get nerfed/fixed

Postby Spinning » October 21st, 2017, 9:37 pm

Jerebear wrote:I get that. I'm just saying it isn't necessarily a bug. It's intentional even if possibly undesirable. It's more of a design decision. They understand the side effects of that decision and have kept them.

I highly doubt that Blizz understands anything at their own mini game. If they did, we would never have Bone Serpents and Terroclaws.

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Re: What does and doesn’t get nerfed/fixed

Postby Neckbèard » October 22nd, 2017, 1:35 am

I highly doubt that Blizz understands anything at their own mini game. If they did, we would never have Bone Serpents and Terroclaws.


Or maybe it's supposed to be challenging and you just need to use your brain?

I have beat 3 x bone serpent several times with my only team and the teroclaw can often easily be beat too. Of course some team combinations will always be more or less impossible to beat with your specific choice of pets. In the end though it's mainly about your ability to come up with a strategy and modify it when needed. No matter how OP the team is it will always be somewhat weak against a smarter player with lesser pets.

With that said, no matter your skill some teams will always be a pain in the ass. If you can't accept that, change pets.
Still, if you can't take a challenge and come up with a solution, maybe you just shouldn't do pvp?

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Rosqo
 
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Re: What does and doesn’t get nerfed/fixed

Postby Rosqo » October 22nd, 2017, 1:56 am

If it was intended wouldn’t all barrages work the same? They don’t though. Here’s a list of stuff I can think of that has weird interactions with hit.

Affected: Egg Barrage (50%), Nut Barrage (80%), Rock Barrage (50%), Make it Rain (80%)

Not affected/bugged: Bone Barrage (80%), Banana Barrage (50%), Moth Balls (50%), Falcosaur Swarm, Flurry

You can put a 100% blind up on a pet that uses Bone Barrage and still get hit? Not working correctly is it however you look at it. Note falcosaur swarm is brand new to this xpac but only the first if affected by hit chance.

If it was a knee jerk reaction to it doing too much damage then perhaps it should have been fixed a few days later like the quality of life pet treat stacking issue after all its actually core gameplay mechanics.

@neckbeard
Slightly off topic but Spinning was making the point that these pets would be balanced if Blizzard put any importance into the gameplay design but they don’t hence the myriad of bugs that plague literally every pet battle. You beat triple BS probably because any player who’s half decent wouldnt even play that team.

Edit. Oh I totally forgot that last time I tried temporal anomaly hits through a blind too.

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Jerebear
 
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Re: What does and doesn’t get nerfed/fixed

Postby Jerebear » October 22nd, 2017, 8:08 am

Rosqo wrote:If it was intended wouldn’t all barrages work the same? They don’t though.


They wouldn't necessarily. Some abilities are just coded differently. I'm not saying that they shouldn't be consistent or that the lack of consistency isn't a bug. I'm just saying, there was a time where Moth Balls and a couple of other abilities worked with Lucky Dance (all hits got the benefit), then blizzard changed them not to. So the mechanic where only the first hit gets benefit was intended for those abilities, not a bug specifically. Is it a bug that other abilities don't follow suit? Maybe/probably. I don't know the current intentions of the developers since they have gone mostly silent now.
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Spinning
 
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Re: What does and doesn’t get nerfed/fixed

Postby Spinning » October 22nd, 2017, 8:43 am

Neckbèard wrote:
I highly doubt that Blizz understands anything at their own mini game. If they did, we would never have Bone Serpents and Terroclaws.


Or maybe it's supposed to be challenging and you just need to use your brain?

I have beat 3 x bone serpent several times with my only team and the teroclaw can often easily be beat too. Of course some team combinations will always be more or less impossible to beat with your specific choice of pets. In the end though it's mainly about your ability to come up with a strategy and modify it when needed. No matter how OP the team is it will always be somewhat weak against a smarter player with lesser pets.

With that said, no matter your skill some teams will always be a pain in the ass. If you can't accept that, change pets.
Still, if you can't take a challenge and come up with a solution, maybe you just shouldn't do pvp?

lol drink some water and relax, tough guy, i am pretty sure i can win without your advices

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Rosqo
 
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Re: What does and doesn’t get nerfed/fixed

Postby Rosqo » October 22nd, 2017, 8:49 am

If it’s intended then the lack of consistency is worse than the abilities being bugged it’s very poor game design with a half attempt at balancing abilities. The fix you explained is similar to this pet treat bug we’ve just had but after breaking these abilities they haven’t fixed them.
It still doesn’t explain Flurry and Falcosaur Swarm only being affected by hit on the first hit.

There’s soo many bugs within the gameplay though like Haunt has 3 separate bugs 1st bug two pets haunt on the same round the pet that goes second insta dies, 2nd bug if Haunt dot is up on a pet that is killed by second or third multi hit attack the haunting pet insta dies and 3rd bug if Haunt is used first in the round followed by the second part of Launch Rocket the game just abandons. All decisive bugs that influence the outcome of the particular game.

It just seems like it’s too much to ask for a polished game. I don’t know of any other Blizzard game that’s so badly finished.

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Re: What does and doesn’t get nerfed/fixed

Postby Jerebear » October 22nd, 2017, 10:24 am

No arguments there Rosco.

Rosqo wrote:It still doesn’t explain Flurry and Falcosaur Swarm only being affected by hit on the first hit.


Those really aren't the same type of abilities. Falcosaur Swarm is more like stampede or hunting part, not bone barrage. Very different mechanics. Flurry is actually closer to abilities like blitz and flank. Though as you already know it has different mechanics than even them (it breaks decoy and they don't). Again, I'm not disagreeing with your intention here. I agree with almost everything you have said in terms of what needs to be changed. I was only commenting on the above because it is one of the few things that was intentionally changed from what it was (for better or for worse...I personally don't like how it functions). I hope that my comments haven't upset anyone. I'm totally for making the game better. I just figured quite a few peeps haven't been here since the beginning so they didn't know the history, so I was providing it. It's definitely not meant to be an attack on the topic at hand though. My hope is that it isn't taken that way. I apologize if so.
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Re: What does and doesn’t get nerfed/fixed

Postby Rosqo » October 22nd, 2017, 10:58 am

I don’t mind your post it was pretty informative it’s just weird how they implemented these changes (hence this topic). The barrage abilities are in line with other single hit abilities that have 50% hit and some of those don’t even have cooldowns. It honestly seems like they implemented this change without addressing the wider implications.

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Re: What does and doesn’t get nerfed/fixed

Postby Quintessence » October 22nd, 2017, 3:06 pm

Neckbèard and Spinning, please keep the discussion friendly and civil.

@Everyone, it's ok to be critical of the game, design choices, developers, etc., but only if it adds something constructive to the conversation. This thread largely upholds that mentality. But do remember that WarcraftPets strives to be a positive, welcoming community (yes, even towards Blizzard ;) ).
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Re: What does and doesn’t get nerfed/fixed

Postby Kambala » October 23rd, 2017, 7:49 am

Chaos Nova bug? What is it about, I think I have not seen anything weird about it (Micronax)?

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Spinning
 
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Re: What does and doesn’t get nerfed/fixed

Postby Spinning » October 23rd, 2017, 12:37 pm

Kambala wrote:Chaos Nova bug? What is it about, I think I have not seen anything weird about it (Micronax)?

On mischief it used to hit only front line pet with all damage. it's fixed now

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Re: What does and doesn’t get nerfed/fixed

Postby Paladance » October 23rd, 2017, 12:39 pm

EDIT: Spinning was faster 8-)
What was so startling was a fact that technically it's pretty much a more oomphy copy of Cosmic Smash.

Which leads us to a topic of abilities not being balanced towards each other, and I'm not talking about the different power of individuals. Spiritfire Beam vs. Primal Cry comes to mind.
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