Family Fighter - FUN! ty Blizzard

Discuss pet battles, strategy and theorycrafting.
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Peanutty
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Re: Family Fighter - FUN! ty Blizzard

Post by Peanutty » September 22nd, 2017, 3:53 pm

Digem wrote:When every fight either needs a dodge , some sort of debuff like stampede and/or black claw, a slow , and maybe a survival to win and then one family of pets has little to none of those moves it isn’t hard to see why they are hard to do on. What is their racial by the way? Every other families one seems better
Their racial seems terrible because it doesn't seem to do much of anything. I can't think of a single time where I thought, "Whew, I'm SO GLAD I have an aquatic pet for that great racial!" I think I even moused over it a few days ago to remind myself that there was one. I have to admit that even now, I don't even know if what it does is reduce overall DoT dmg by 50%, or DoT duration... :?

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Re: Family Fighter - FUN! ty Blizzard

Post by Nagini » September 23rd, 2017, 5:35 am

I thought family fighter was fun, and that the difficulty was just right. On some of the fights, i waited till a good guide was up because i couldnt think of a winning combination myself (3-5 fights, they've been named already). I think it was a decent trade off, especially seeing that once you figure out what works on the bosses (anything with a stampede), your go-to team becomes something with ikky or zandalari raptors anyway.

It's indeed unfortunate that for aquatics you end up having 90% of the strats with a small minority of pets not because you're lazy, but because nothing else worked.

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Re: Family Fighter - FUN! ty Blizzard

Post by Digem » September 25th, 2017, 9:34 am

Noel wrote:I'm loving it so far; (about 1/3 the way through) but it makes me realize that I'm missing some speedier versions of important pets...I just winged it with other pets thanks to the lookup feature on warcraftpets.

The fact you don't have to wait for a certain pet to be up makes its totally awesome; the one on the Broken Isles made you HAVE to do it when the pet is up...which reduced the fun and increased the stress.

That is one of the improvements they did here were I can fight these fights when I want to and not wait days to weeks until they are up as dailies to count . I agree overall they did a good job with this one. Just made me realize what a bad place aquatics are in is all

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Re: Family Fighter - FUN! ty Blizzard

Post by Digem » September 25th, 2017, 9:41 am

Peanutty wrote:
Digem wrote:When every fight either needs a dodge , some sort of debuff like stampede and/or black claw, a slow , and maybe a survival to win and then one family of pets has little to none of those moves it isn’t hard to see why they are hard to do on. What is their racial by the way? Every other families one seems better
Their racial seems terrible because it doesn't seem to do much of anything. I can't think of a single time where I thought, "Whew, I'm SO GLAD I have an aquatic pet for that great racial!" I think I even moused over it a few days ago to remind myself that there was one. I have to admit that even now, I don't even know if what it does is reduce overall DoT dmg by 50%, or DoT duration... :?

I can rattle off the rest off the top of my head:
Mech- come back to life so basically extra turn but can heal up and live a long time afterwards.
Undead - come back to life but a one round revival
Humanoid- get a small heal with every hit or dot
Magic- can’t take over a 50% hit
Elemental- unaffected by weather conditions
Flying- speed boost until less than 50% health
Beast- less than 50% health get attack boost
Dragon - opponent less 50% health get attack boost only one round
Critter- can’t be stunned

All these have a place where they are huge benefits and the aquatic one is meh at best and they had a bad move base. I didn’t realize any of this till doing this achievement. Aquatics are in a bad place and need a little love

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Re: Family Fighter - FUN! ty Blizzard

Post by Badpathing » September 25th, 2017, 12:20 pm

I don't have a problem with RNG, I farm mounts; it's part of wow-life for me. Having said that, the mounts are usually worth it.

A lot of people complain about pets gated behind prestige, or class order halls, or <insert new area here>, but I'm personally OK with that. This achieve, while chock-full of RNG, doesn't really have a worth while reward. I feel like this is the biggest issue with pet content today. So while I did enjoy the scope of the achieve, the finish line really needs help.

I have said it before, I'll say it again. The pet reward system needs a severe overhaul. The tokens given in WQs and Weekly/Daily quests haven't really grown with the pet content. Giving us a reskin of a new wild pet is kind of insulting for the shear amount of effort it takes to finish Family Fighter. I cannot even imagine how someone without a deep pet collection would do it.

I want to see unique pet toys, pets, generous pet collection boosts (looking at you SINGLE epic pet stone for pet weekly quest). Hell, why not throw in some kind of crazy cute/interesting/neat mount directly related to pets. Like a giant bear with pouches that you can place specified pets in for the ride? I dunno, liven it up.

I liked this achieve, but I hated the shit pet we got for it.

*edit* regarding the falcosaurs, this is exactly what I am talking about. I think content, at least the significant content (like this achieve) should keep this direction in mind.
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Re: Family Fighter - FUN! ty Blizzard

Post by Q8e192 » September 25th, 2017, 2:08 pm

Badpathing wrote:I don't have a problem with RNG, I farm mounts; it's part of wow-life for me. Having said that, the mounts are usually worth it.

A lot of people complain about pets gated behind prestige, or class order halls, or <insert new area here>, but I'm personally OK with that. This achieve, while chock-full of RNG, doesn't really have a worth while reward. I feel like this is the biggest issue with pet content today. So while I did enjoy the scope of the achieve, the finish line really needs help.

I have said it before, I'll say it again. The pet reward system needs a severe overhaul. The tokens given in WQs and Weekly/Daily quests haven't really grown with the pet content. Giving us a reskin of a new wild pet is kind of insulting for the shear amount of effort it takes to finish Family Fighter. I cannot even imagine how someone without a deep pet collection would do it.

I want to see unique pet toys, pets, generous pet collection boosts (looking at you SINGLE epic pet stone for pet weekly quest). Hell, why not throw in some kind of crazy cute/interesting/neat mount directly related to pets. Like a giant bear with pouches that you can place specified pets in for the ride? I dunno, liven it up.

I liked this achieve, but I hated the shit pet we got for it.

*edit* regarding the falcosaurs, this is exactly what I am talking about. I think content, at least the significant content (like this achieve) should keep this direction in mind.
Thanks for sharing your opinion.
I feel quite differently tho.
Its not the destination, its the journey.
I could care less about the virtual reward ... its just pixels made by bytes.
The real fun stuff was figuring out the strategies.

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Re: Family Fighter - FUN! ty Blizzard

Post by Badpathing » September 25th, 2017, 3:03 pm

Q8e192 wrote:Thanks for sharing your opinion.
I feel quite differently tho.
Its not the destination, its the journey.
I could care less about the virtual reward ... its just pixels made by bytes.
The real fun stuff was figuring out the strategies.
Why must they be mutually exclusive? Why not both?

And please, don't tell me you get zero pleasure out of a new, or interesting pet and that making something like that as a reward holds no interest for you. You obviously care about the pixels, as you collect pets to take on the challenges.

Are you supposed to be some sort of pet nihilist?
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Re: Family Fighter - FUN! ty Blizzard

Post by Q8e192 » September 25th, 2017, 4:08 pm

Badpathing wrote:
Q8e192 wrote:Thanks for sharing your opinion.
I feel quite differently tho.
Its not the destination, its the journey.
I could care less about the virtual reward ... its just pixels made by bytes.
The real fun stuff was figuring out the strategies.
Why must they be mutually exclusive? Why not both?

And please, don't tell me you get zero pleasure out of a new, or interesting pet and that making something like that as a reward holds no interest for you. You obviously care about the pixels, as you collect pets to take on the challenges.

Are you supposed to be some sort of pet nihilist?
This is strictly my opinion, but I rather Blizz put in the effort to spend time to create a better challenge than a reward.
It comes down to developer $$$ allocated to features. The aesthetics of the reward is a feature I'm not that interested in.
Having that extra pet as an increment to my total pet collection is different than aesthetics and for that I'm glad to get, but still dwarfs in the pleasure I had of figuring out the strategies. Hope this explanation is satisfactory to you.

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Re: Family Fighter - FUN! ty Blizzard

Post by Peanutty » September 25th, 2017, 4:58 pm

Badpathing wrote:I liked this achieve, but I hated the shit pet we got for it.
Haha, when my achieve popped up a few guildmates asked me what the reward was, and I linked my new pet. "Wow what a crappy pet" was the response. I knew a few of them were slowly working on the meta but I don't think any of them felt inspired at seeing my newest addition.

You know what would be a nice reward? An aquatic pet with some new moves... ;)

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Re: Family Fighter - FUN! ty Blizzard

Post by Badpathing » September 28th, 2017, 10:58 am

Peanutty wrote: Haha, when my achieve popped up a few guildmates asked me what the reward was, and I linked my new pet. "Wow what a crappy pet" was the response. I knew a few of them were slowly working on the meta but I don't think any of them felt inspired at seeing my newest addition.

You know what would be a nice reward? An aquatic pet with some new moves... ;)
Yeah, don't get me wrong, I appreciate the challenge of the achievement. It felt GOOD to finish. It's just a damn shame that the pet reward is so incredibly lack-luster.

Aquatic pets are pretty ho-hum for sure.
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Re: Family Fighter - FUN! ty Blizzard

Post by Digem » September 30th, 2017, 10:49 am

Peanutty wrote:
Badpathing wrote:I liked this achieve, but I hated the shit pet we got for it.
Haha, when my achieve popped up a few guildmates asked me what the reward was, and I linked my new pet. "Wow what a crappy pet" was the response. I knew a few of them were slowly working on the meta but I don't think any of them felt inspired at seeing my newest addition.

You know what would be a nice reward? An aquatic pet with some new moves... ;)

That would be ideal but I could see why they wouldn’t though. You and I know people would complain that they are forced to do it if the reward is to good . So those of us that do it because we actually like it get screwed with meh rewards. It is a shame blizz listens to the forced to do crowd so much. I guess the old saying the squeaky wheel gets the oil applied here. Last expansion was so bad because they listened to the forced to do crowd and we had next to no dailies or any content outside of raiding .

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Re: Family Fighter - FUN! ty Blizzard

Post by Gráinne » October 14th, 2017, 2:27 pm

OK, so I finished it last night, and I've slept on it. Here are my thoughts:

Preface: I am heavily biased against it by 7.3 in general. That has to be taken into account.

a) The new animations, and especially sounds, mean I can no longer enjoy my beloved Frost Mage, who has logged more than double the /played of all my other characters combined. She has suffered much at the hands of vandals already in her appearance and abilities. This final injury makes me not want to log in :cry: so I did this on other characters.

b) The zones of Argus are crap. I find them dull, artificial contrived. I associate pet battles with the wonderful old environments, where I would love to live (or, thinking of Blade's Edge and Icecrown, at least visit and bring back snaps :P) - doing this in an environment where I do not want to be, and which I do not respect, starts me off with the wrong attitude.

So, right at the moment, I am very disappointed and angry at the game in general. I'll try to put that aside for this purpose, but I know it colours my opinion. I can't help it.

Thoughts: Overall, even taking into account my bias, I find myself disappointed in Family Fighter.

1. Availability: I know I'm in a minority here, perhaps a minority of one, but I can't help but feel that 24/7 Availability was too much. Yes, I also know 24/7 Availability was in place for BoF and TT, but those were much shorter, and not really achievements that required work.

Because of unlimited availability, I never felt motivated to make time to do a session on a challenge. I didn't want to be on Argus at all, and when I was, I didn't want to stop for this. I never needed to do it now; I could always put it off for another time. As a result, beyond doing a few of the pets on a few families as I passed by, I made very little progress. Finally I lost interest altogether, and ended up ticking off the last 6 or 8 pets in one long session, just unthinkingly copying strats from XuFu's, to get it done. Not very fun.

If there had been some level of restriction - not the RNG of the tamers in Familiar, but some reason to actually go to Argus and get a challenge done while it was up - I would not have lost focus so much.

2. Boss battles: Single Boss-type battles suffer from the boss being too strong and too buffed. This limits the approaches we can take, which makes the battle strat-making less interesting.

I remember fondly my first attempts at BoF, when I discovered Howlbomb. It was so much fun to set up, wait ... wait ... BOOM the bomb goes off. :) But Howlbomb became more popular, and used in far too many places, so Howlbomb went bye-bye. That leaves us with only one generic strat to take down legendary bosses - Bleed'n'Stampede. So for each boss, I ask myself: how do I put up the DoT/debuff, and where do I pull the Stampede from?

In theory, this is more a challenge than Howlbomb, because there are multiple possible DoTs to use, and multiple ways to create Shattered Defences, but within a family, that scope is much reduced. Among Aquatics, we have no choice but to use the Gulp Froglet, since it's the only Aquatic that can supply Shattered Defences. In Beasts, Zandalari Raptors are The Answer to Life, The Universe, and Everything - sure there are others, but why even bother looking?

So while finding the right Bleed'n'Stampede is varied in theory, in practice it turns out to leave us with little choice of approach, and that little freedom is further limited by having to dodge or absorb the McGuffin of the boss.

Having said all that, it was nice to see Blistering Cold, for Elementals, in the wild. :)

I think tamer battles have more flexibility to give a more interesting experience than Legendary Boss battles.

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Re: Family Fighter - FUN! ty Blizzard

Post by Waynebrady » November 5th, 2017, 12:30 am

Just finished this today. I worked on it for several hours yesterday and today. I felt compelled to post after completing it because it took soooooooo long. Luckily I have a pretty sizeable pet collection but I couldn't imagine if I didn't. I went to each boss, did each fight, then moved on to the next boss. And I thought the original world quest achievement was bad... Overall it was fun but like others have noted, it really should have been about having pets with abilities that worked, not having the right breed of certain pets. Overall though I think it was more time consuming than difficult given my collection. Better reward please!

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Re: Family Fighter - FUN! ty Blizzard

Post by Drlambda » November 6th, 2017, 5:00 am

I recently finished it after doing like 1 pet every few days, just because it was so time-consuming. I have a sizable collection and for most of the battles, it was just a matter of tenacity rather than a test of skill. Combine that with some battles having very specific pets you have to own to beat them, and i just think it's a bit over the top. There are just to many battles you have to win, and even if you know you will faceroll them with 2 tries max, they take a considerable amount of time. Really, just making us do the hard parts of the challenge would be much more fulfilling.

Also, i'm pretty sure that the Elite battles are the reason why you can't que for PVP on Argus - the Paraxis can shoot you while in instanced battles because you otherwise could just start a battle every time it flew over and wait until it ended, and you don't want that to happen during PVP. That alone made ques so much slower after 7.3 released and is another highly negative point in my book.

Really, the idea was good, but both the tuning, the implementation and the required time needs work.
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