No wonder nobody pvps

Discuss pet battles, strategy and theorycrafting.
User avatar
Gráinne
Posts: 830
Joined: July 7th, 2015
Pet Score: 9323
Realm: Magtheridon-EU
Contact:

Re: No wonder nobody pvps

Post by Gráinne » July 6th, 2017, 12:35 pm

Digem, I confirm what Rosqo is saying. I've done maybe a hundred battles on the last couple of months, and in general I have found the queue very reasonable, with a good variety of pets. Yes, there's a meta, but I didn't find it overpowering.

It was just yesterday I obviously ran into a real traffic-jam of throwbacks. It really was like a day of late Warlords.

As Rosqo says, these people playing the three Bone Serpents were probably the people playing three green pets - after 100 losses and a trip to the AH.

Pet PvP is probably the only game that relies for its fun on people deliberately giving themselves a handicap, so you have to expect the queue to escalate from time to time. It's the natural end-state of the queue. And then the activity dies down, and the people running 3xBS or 2xBS+Rageling or whatever get their thing done go away, and the more fun teams come out to play. Until someone gets annoyed, and brings out that sort of team, which ticks off other people in the queue, who bring out their versions.... and it escalates again.

These escalations have been so much rarer than WoD that I've been feeling they had gone away. But they can't go away, because they're inevitable emergent behaviour of the system. As long as very heavy but simple teams are possible, there will be outbreaks.

But I have seen nothing like that before in the last few months.

If you are not grinding continually, you will come across these outbreaks rarely, but they are the ones we remember and talk about.

User avatar
Drudatz
Top Rater
Posts: 387
Joined: June 13th, 2011
Pet Score: 9536
Realm: Kul Tiras-EU
Contact:

Re: No wonder nobody pvps

Post by Drudatz » July 6th, 2017, 7:22 pm

Chaminade wrote:I got my 10 pvp wins for the quest in Org, but other that that is not worth pvping.
thats not true. It allways depends what you want to achive - I for myself when my main is done questing level my alts by pet pvp - the xp is good and you get some stones:
https://ibb.co/fgxkEa
Chaminade wrote:There is no reward. People retreat when they know that they're losing the battle, so it takes forever to get the achievements done.
This makes no sense?
when people retreat you get a win and thus the achivement?
and ofc people retreat, because when you retreat quick your opponent doesnt get any xp for the pet pvp battle.
Chaminade wrote:At least stay in the game so the other one gets the credit.
You get credit even by a retreat.
Rosqo wrote:So if the opponent insta flees then you don't get achievement credit? You still get quest credit obviously though.
Can someone confirm this??? I would try it out myself but I cant as I have done all of them :)

@Chaminade: you sure you used the pet pvp queue and not tried to play against a friend someone you met?

User avatar
Wootzy
Top Rater
Posts: 141
Joined: May 18th, 2016
Pet Score: 5165
Realm: Silvermoon-EU
Contact:

Re: No wonder nobody pvps

Post by Wootzy » July 7th, 2017, 4:21 am

Gráinne wrote:Case in point. I just went into the queue and I'm 2 out of 10!

My opposition included: 3 Bone Serpents (twice), a full-fledged Sunny Day team, Graves, Bone Serpent, MPD followed by Graves, Bone Serpent, Weeb (at this point I was getting flashbacks to WoD) followed by, of all things, a guy running 3 Green pets. I imagined how he must be feeling and threw that one.

I think the queue right now is as toxic as Warlords.

I was about to gear up, when I thought: No, this is good; it reminds me why I got out.

And I got out again. :)
Same here. I was planning to play with some fun new teams. First opponent that pops up was using Bone Serpent, Blackfuse Bombling, Vengeful Porcupette. Second opponent was using triple Teroclaws. Third opponent double Bone Serpents. Why would you do that, especially during the pet battle week?! YOU are SPOILING it for EVERYONE.

User avatar
Digem
MVP
Posts: 523
Joined: August 1st, 2013
Pet Score: 10000
Realm: Fizzcrank-US
Contact:

Re: No wonder nobody pvps

Post by Digem » July 7th, 2017, 6:46 am

Wootzy wrote:
Gráinne wrote:Case in point. I just went into the queue and I'm 2 out of 10!

My opposition included: 3 Bone Serpents (twice), a full-fledged Sunny Day team, Graves, Bone Serpent, MPD followed by Graves, Bone Serpent, Weeb (at this point I was getting flashbacks to WoD) followed by, of all things, a guy running 3 Green pets. I imagined how he must be feeling and threw that one.

I think the queue right now is as toxic as Warlords.

I was about to gear up, when I thought: No, this is good; it reminds me why I got out.

And I got out again. :)
Same here. I was planning to play with some fun new teams. First opponent that pops up was using Bone Serpent, Blackfuse Bombling, Vengeful Porcupette. Second opponent was using triple Teroclaws. Third opponent double Bone Serpents. Why would you do that, especially during the pet battle week?! YOU are SPOILING it for EVERYONE.
They do that like gankers do it in pvp for easy wins. They know more will be doing it this week so chances at more wins. The botters come out big time in weeks like this. It is like I have started to notice more and more in pvp world quests like the towers the opposing faction is stealth hiding (rogues and Druids) on the other factions towers and attacking people when engaged with the npc's for easy kills.They don't want world pvp which they claim as they run away when attacked back just easy kills. Pvp brings out the worst in players it seems

User avatar
Gráinne
Posts: 830
Joined: July 7th, 2015
Pet Score: 9323
Realm: Magtheridon-EU
Contact:

Re: No wonder nobody pvps

Post by Gráinne » July 8th, 2017, 3:57 am

Drudatz wrote:It allways depends what you want to achive - I for myself when my main is done questing level my alts by pet pvp - the xp is good and you get some stones:
But surely the XP is better in Halfhill or Frostfire or Mistfall? Same XP per battle, but instant battles that complete much faster. And the same drop rate for stones?

User avatar
Drudatz
Top Rater
Posts: 387
Joined: June 13th, 2011
Pet Score: 9536
Realm: Kul Tiras-EU
Contact:

Re: No wonder nobody pvps

Post by Drudatz » July 8th, 2017, 5:32 am

Gráinne wrote:But surely the XP is better in Halfhill or Frostfire or Mistfall? Same XP per battle, but instant battles that complete much faster. And the same drop rate for stones?
No its not faster as you have to move there. With pet pvp I can sit in Dala/Og, chill and play some time after I done my daily chores before I log :)

But you could go ahead and try leveling one toon from 100 to 110 and afterwards we'd compare how many stones you got? :D

User avatar
Highdudgeon
Posts: 1
Joined: July 21st, 2015
Pet Score: 4932
Realm: Dalaran-US
Contact:

Re: No wonder nobody pvps

Post by Highdudgeon » July 8th, 2017, 8:58 am

I HATE pet store pets and always resign when I see one. I will only do battle with pets that are found within WOW and not from the store or trading cards or anywhere else.

User avatar
Gráinne
Posts: 830
Joined: July 7th, 2015
Pet Score: 9323
Realm: Magtheridon-EU
Contact:

Re: No wonder nobody pvps

Post by Gráinne » July 8th, 2017, 9:05 am

While pet battling is a reasonably effective method of levelling, it makes my brains dribble out of my ears if I stick at it for too long, so I'll pass on your kind offer. :)

I just did some numbers. At 104, you need 681K to get to 105.

I took a level 104, and did 23 wild battles in 30 minutes in FFR. No looms. Yes, I did have to move, but not much.

That yielded 309,289 XP, which is 45% of a level, and one Blue Beast stone for the half-hour.

I do not believe PvP could be faster. As for stones, I doubt that either you or I care about stones. And if I wanted stones, I'd get the shoulder enchant and exterminate some murlocs. :P

User avatar
Flow
Posts: 47
Joined: February 22nd, 2016
Realm: Magtheridon-EU
Contact:

Re: No wonder nobody pvps

Post by Flow » July 8th, 2017, 9:48 am

Drudatz wrote:No its not faster as you have to move there.
It take 2-3 mins to get to Halfhill. Portal to shrine (everyone should have regular HS to shrine where all the portals are), and the flight down takes 90 seconds. Which you do once per toon for this.

There's no way pvp is faster for levelling, the xp is the same as for pve battles (unless they changed it recently). The question is rather whether garrison or wild pet battles is better, there are pros and cons to both.

_

User avatar
Drudatz
Top Rater
Posts: 387
Joined: June 13th, 2011
Pet Score: 9536
Realm: Kul Tiras-EU
Contact:

Re: No wonder nobody pvps

Post by Drudatz » July 9th, 2017, 8:36 am

Flow wrote:It take 2-3 mins to get to Halfhill. Portal to shrine (everyone should have regular HS to shrine where all the portals are), and the flight down takes 90 seconds. Which you do once per toon for this.
So you want to level toons by doing one quest/day for 41.678 xp (25.628 fight + 16.050 quest)?

Sure at level 107 I "only" get 12.150xp but that that has the convinence not to leave og, can talk in trade use the ah to check prices etc...
Flow wrote:There's no way pvp is faster for levelling, the xp is the same as for pve battles (unless they changed it recently). The question is rather whether garrison or wild pet battles is better, there are pros and cons to both.
I am talking toons not pets. No one levels pets these days by wasting time on fights unless they just started collecting/leveling...

User avatar
Vakeetah
Top Rater
Posts: 166
Joined: October 11th, 2015
Pet Score: 7667
Realm: Dragonblight-EU
Contact:

Re: No wonder nobody pvps

Post by Vakeetah » July 9th, 2017, 10:43 am

Drudatz wrote: So you want to level toons by doing one quest/day for 41.678 xp (25.628 fight + 16.050 quest)?

Sure at level 107 I "only" get 12.150xp but that that has the convinence not to leave og, can talk in trade use the ah to check prices etc...

I am talking toons not pets. No one levels pets these days by wasting time on fights unless they just started collecting/leveling...
You know, this isn't about tamers. They are a nice boost for sure, but fighting WILD Battle Pets also yields a good 12.900 player XP (if the wild pets are lv.25). And fighting them is also faster than doing PvP - no queues, no stalling, no exploits, no surprises with team composition, and certainly no risk of losing.

You just have to go there, which isn't much of a hassle, provided the best spots are in "Hearthstone locations" like Vale of Eternal Blossoms or the Garrison. It's, literally, a click away.
Image
- Thanks to Paladance for the sig!

User avatar
Drudatz
Top Rater
Posts: 387
Joined: June 13th, 2011
Pet Score: 9536
Realm: Kul Tiras-EU
Contact:

Re: No wonder nobody pvps

Post by Drudatz » July 9th, 2017, 1:07 pm

Vakeetah wrote:You know, this isn't about tamers.
Nope I didnt! He said fly to halfhill which meant for me he meant that place because of the trainer.....
Vakeetah wrote:They are a nice boost for sure, but fighting WILD Battle Pets also yields a good 12.900 player XP (if the wild pets are lv.25).
This is wrong too:
pvp pat battle = 12.250xp at level 108 and pve pet battle in halfhill vs lvl24 critter = 23537xp
Vakeetah wrote:And fighting them is also faster than doing PvP - no queues, no stalling, no exploits, no surprises with team composition, and certainly no risk of losing.
#1 you mean they are repetitive aka boring
#2 "faster" in that you dont have to wait for queue (mayhaps) but you also have to take in account the time you need to go to next.
#3 no risk of loosing aka no fun - why would I play if I knew I would always win? I have a win ratio of 87% (which also counts in pve weeklies like DM and WC so it probably something like ~75% in reality) and thats good enough for me.
(otherwise I could go tripple darkness and (nearly) always win)

User avatar
Digem
MVP
Posts: 523
Joined: August 1st, 2013
Pet Score: 10000
Realm: Fizzcrank-US
Contact:

Re: No wonder nobody pvps

Post by Digem » July 9th, 2017, 1:30 pm

Highdudgeon wrote:I HATE pet store pets and always resign when I see one. I will only do battle with pets that are found within WOW and not from the store or trading cards or anywhere else.

store pets are in the wow store and thus part of the game. secondly none of them are op so what is the big deal? the only pet that could of been called op was graves.

User avatar
Digem
MVP
Posts: 523
Joined: August 1st, 2013
Pet Score: 10000
Realm: Fizzcrank-US
Contact:

Re: No wonder nobody pvps

Post by Digem » July 9th, 2017, 1:38 pm

Drudatz wrote:
Vakeetah wrote:You know, this isn't about tamers.
Nope I didnt! He said fly to halfhill which meant for me he meant that place because of the trainer.....
Vakeetah wrote:They are a nice boost for sure, but fighting WILD Battle Pets also yields a good 12.900 player XP (if the wild pets are lv.25).
This is wrong too:
pvp pat battle = 12.250xp at level 108 and pve pet battle in halfhill vs lvl24 critter = 23537xp
Vakeetah wrote:And fighting them is also faster than doing PvP - no queues, no stalling, no exploits, no surprises with team composition, and certainly no risk of losing.
#1 you mean they are repetitive aka boring
#2 "faster" in that you dont have to wait for queue (mayhaps) but you also have to take in account the time you need to go to next.
#3 no risk of loosing aka no fun - why would I play if I knew I would always win? I have a win ratio of 87% (which also counts in pve weeklies like DM and WC so it probably something like ~75% in reality) and thats good enough for me.
(otherwise I could go tripple darkness and (nearly) always win)
pet pvp isn't repetitive? you see a lot of the same pets over and over. and as you said you could run a darkness team and always win so how isn't that boring or repetitive? finally if you don't win you get no xp so isn't that wasting time?
I agree killing wild pets is boring and I too leveled a lot of toons thru pet pvp but that doesn't mean it is quicker just a little less boring

User avatar
Gráinne
Posts: 830
Joined: July 7th, 2015
Pet Score: 9323
Realm: Magtheridon-EU
Contact:

Re: No wonder nobody pvps

Post by Gráinne » July 9th, 2017, 3:30 pm

Indeed wild battles must be 5-10 times faster to level characters with than the PvP queue.

Wild battles are consistently mind-numbing.

OTOH, PvP is either fun or depressing, depending on what the queue turns up.

Pick yer poison!

User avatar
Flow
Posts: 47
Joined: February 22nd, 2016
Realm: Magtheridon-EU
Contact:

Re: No wonder nobody pvps

Post by Flow » July 9th, 2017, 7:21 pm

Drudatz wrote:
Vakeetah wrote:You know, this isn't about tamers.
Nope I didnt! He said fly to halfhill which meant for me he meant that place because of the trainer.....
No, I didn't. You know that very well.
Drudatz wrote:
Flow wrote:There's no way pvp is faster for levelling, the xp is the same as for pve battles (unless they changed it recently). The question is rather whether garrison or wild pet battles is better, there are pros and cons to both.
I am talking toons not pets. No one levels pets these days by wasting time on fights unless they just started collecting/leveling...
Nope. I was talking about player xp and, again, you knew that so you are just trolling. Player xp for player level 100 win in pet pvp without buffs is 11500, and I'm pretty sure it's the same for pve pet battles.

Edit: Want to know why I know you are trolling? Because you said so yourself that we were talking about toon levelling. I quote you:
Drudatz wrote:I for myself when my main is done questing level my alts by pet pvp - the xp is good and you get some stones:


_

User avatar
Drlambda
Posts: 64
Joined: May 8th, 2016
Pet Score: 5543
Realm: Arthas-EU
Contact:

Re: No wonder nobody pvps

Post by Drlambda » July 10th, 2017, 4:03 am

I think this whole thread is highly exaggerated. I only recently got more serious in PVP battling, and i so i think that i have a pretty fresh point of view on it.

Before i start: I'm playing on the EU servers, so obviously your results may vary on US.

First of all, "nobody pvps." That's just plain untrue. It's very hard to find a time where the queue takes longer than 2 minutes to fire. From what i remember, anything after 2am on weekdays and sunday mornings can be really slow, but even then not necessarily so. Aside from that, i consider a long queue time to be a freak accident. Of course it could be better, as you can see during pet week, where the queue pops faster than Hearthstone matchmaking.

Second, the "cutthroat meta." It can be pretty strong at times, but usually, even on the EU servers, you get a good mix of fun teams in between there. Of course there are always going to be strong pets and you will lose to them if your team or matchup is weak, you also wouldn't win the Monte Carlo Grand Prix with a Golf. There are pets that are so good that it is problematic (think Bone Serpent, Wicked Soul, Blossoming Ancient, Teroclaw Hatchling) but it's not like there are a lot of people that throw 3 of those into the queue. Even if you are facing the dreaded 3 Serpents, there is nothing easier than to concede and move on, it's not like you're losing anything. The guy running 3 Bone Serpents is the same person that is flipping the table at a friendly boardgame, and even if you can't win against him it's not like you're losing.

Adding MMR and higher rewards to pet battling would of course make the whole "3 overpowered pets" problem much bigger because more people would be running them to reap the rewards. It would also mean that Blizzard would be forced to balance pet battling actively rather than once every expansion (or whenever they break it with a new ability) which is a time investment they're probably not willing to commit to.

The meta is so much better and more fun than WoD when i first tried to get in, they really did a good job fixing a lot of the broken pets. They still are out there, but i'm pretty sure they will cut them down early enough.

Then, conceding early not giving achievment credit and XP - This is obviously to prevent players from wintrading. It would be really easy to just queue up with two players in the middle of the night and concede until both have their achievements, and this security measure adds so much wait time that it is unreasonable to do so. I also haven't seen more than 1 person every 50 fights that runs away on turn 1 against a team that looks like it's playing the same game you want to play. It only gets problematic if the fight starts but get's decided really early to some lucky hit or crit, and even that only happens once every blue moon. I can safely say that i got XP and achievement credit for at least 195 of the last 200 battles i won.

Of course, if you're queueing with double or triple Bone Serpent, the number of early concessions would rise by a lot. You know, if you walked up to my kitchen table, climbed up and started unzipping your pants, i won't let get you up there before you took a dump on my boardgame, and it's the same here.
CloseToZero - Watch me lose on youtube with bad pets! :D

User avatar
Kalium
Top Rater
Posts: 106
Joined: August 19th, 2008
Contact:

Re: No wonder nobody pvps

Post by Kalium » July 10th, 2017, 9:07 am

I don't PvP regularly but I'll share my notable experiences from this past week:

Teroclaw, Fiendish Imp, Wicked Soul (or Unborn Val'kyr)

3 Moths

Teroclaw, Lil Ragnaros, Molten Corgi

Teroclaw, Lil Bling, Wicked Soul

Teroclaw, Unborn Val'kyr, Graves

Blind Rat, Death Adder Hatchling, Rose Taipan

I ran into these teams more than once. I saw a few other teams that either left or were not noteworthy. I recall these mainly due to how long the fights were. Even when my opponent should have known they were beaten they just let the timer run out instead of playing any more. That was a bit more annoying and should be reportable.

User avatar
Abbotta
MVP
Posts: 234
Joined: November 18th, 2014
Pet Score: 4748
BattleTag®: LynneSin#1318
Realm: Area 52-US
Contact:

Re: No wonder nobody pvps

Post by Abbotta » July 10th, 2017, 12:14 pm

Rosqo wrote:Or maybe you can only use a certain pet a set number of times a week. Say you can only use poor old teroclaw 3 times a week it might stop the most toxic teams
Or Blizzard could just nerf Tero.

My biggest shock coming back after a year absence was that the 'Howl Bomb' (Chrominus/PWS) was nerfed when they fixed PWS to not have Whirlpool/geyser on 2 different slots.

I don't think I gave my Teroclaw a second look last time around but now he's probably one of my top pets I use, especially in those dungeon quests (thinking of adding a second Tero into my inventory).

But usually when a pet is 'too good to be true' that's the one that gets on the Blizzard Nerf list (at least my my humble opinion).

User avatar
Maizing
Posts: 376
Joined: October 15th, 2012
Pet Score: 5724
BattleTag®: Maizing#1456
Realm: Feathermoon-US
Contact:

Re: No wonder nobody pvps

Post by Maizing » July 11th, 2017, 5:20 am

Rematch has an option to set a team slot to a random pet, so I made a team of all random pets. I have been thinking of loading that team up and seeing how I do in pet pvp with it.

It should at least be an interesting experience.

Post Reply