Graves observations

Discuss pet battles, strategy and theorycrafting.
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Skavenged
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Re: Graves observations

Post by Skavenged » June 8th, 2015, 11:55 am

Again, you're missing the point. I'm pretty good at pet battling. I have no problem with forming counters. My point is that top end items, whether pets or gear, should not be the reward for playing another game. If they want to give away a reward pet then it should be a cool looking pet with a very basic move set.

Point two... Yes the Graves team can certainly be countered. However, this one pet makes the entire humanoid class of pets virtually unplayable. You can talk about aquatics, or ghost pups all you want, but one pet should not be strong enough to remove an entire class of pets from the playing field. That creates a huge imbalance in the meta

So from what I'm hearing, we'll all either be playing a Graves team or we'll be playing a counter-Graves team? Sounds great. That doesn't seem like when we were all playing DAH teams and counter-DAH teams at all.

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Re: Graves observations

Post by Luciandk » June 8th, 2015, 12:03 pm

Most whom cares about battle pets have already done the Graves grind. Getting a good pet for the effort is quite an incentive for a serious pet battler to suffer Hots, as its a very noticeable perk up to any pet battling stable.

Like it or not, Skavenged, meta shifts happens as new pets are introduced. At least Graves isnt super exclusive unlike Murkalot.

Though I daresay the fallout might have been less severe had they chosen perhaps the Dragon Knight instead, due to the sheer power of the undead pet racial.

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Digem
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Re: Graves observations

Post by Digem » June 8th, 2015, 12:14 pm

Skavenged wrote:Again, you're missing the point. I'm pretty good at pet battling. I have no problem with forming counters. My point is that top end items, whether pets or gear, should not be the reward for playing another game. If they want to give away a reward pet then it should be a cool looking pet with a very basic move set.

Point two... Yes the Graves team can certainly be countered. However, this one pet makes the entire humanoid class of pets virtually unplayable. You can talk about aquatics, or ghost pups all you want, but one pet should not be strong enough to remove an entire class of pets from the playing field. That creates a huge imbalance in the meta

So from what I'm hearing, we'll all either be playing a Graves team or we'll be playing a counter-Graves team? Sounds great. That doesn't seem like when we were all playing DAH teams and counter-DAH teams at all.

It is a bonus pet from a free to play game made by the same company.
I would say that is good marketing to get one to play the game.

The idol has had a long run tormenting the pvp pet game.
It has chased off most dragon class pets.
It also was over powered and had a move that hit way more than it 50% base chance.
Also isn't the murklot a humanoid?
So one would be using that one.

You are just whining to whine now.
Flavor of he month runs with pets and teams has been a stable of pet pvp since the get go remember the direhorn scourge?
How do flavor of the month pets fade out?
The counter teams run them out what a concept

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Skavenged
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Re: Graves observations

Post by Skavenged » June 8th, 2015, 1:00 pm

Flavor of the month pets get run out by creating balance... Which is what we've had for months now! Since WoD was introduced, Fotm pets haven't really existed. Previously broken pets, like the Idol and Valk, were fixed. Other than Murkalot, there have been no truly OP pets. As I mentioned earlier, for the past few months, I've seen a whole lot of creative teams made of every class and breed. I'm kinda thinking that's the way it was supposed to be all along.

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Re: Graves observations

Post by Digem » June 8th, 2015, 1:47 pm

Skavenged wrote:Flavor of the month pets get run out by creating balance... Which is what we've had for months now! Since WoD was introduced, Fotm pets haven't really existed. Previously broken pets, like the Idol and Valk, were fixed. Other than Murkalot, there have been no truly OP pets. As I mentioned earlier, for the past few months, I've seen a whole lot of creative teams made of every class and breed. I'm kinda thinking that's the way it was supposed to be all along.

You just rattled off three fotm pets.
Missed a few others like the direhorns, dah , and kovak to name a few more.
So you see they have always been there.
Stitches was he one from this expansion so far and now it will be graves.
Never mind fotm teams have also always been around as cyclone teams have been popular for a long time.
Never mind darkness, lighting , and stall teams too.
It is the way it has always been.

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Re: Graves observations

Post by Skavenged » June 8th, 2015, 2:20 pm

Fotm teams are the ones that are so overpowered that everyone is running them. There have been no real OP pets since WoD came out. The broken pets that made fotm teams possible have been fixed. Those that I "rattled" off are no longer OP. Sure, clonedance teams still exist. That's because it is a good team built around multiple pets. None of those pets is OP on its own. You need a pet swap and multiple rounds to set up the combo and hope your opponent doesn't ruin it. That isn't overpowered!! It is simply a strategy. However a single pet, standing in the front row, dealing massive damage to the entire enemy team, round after round... Now that's overpowered!

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Re: Graves observations

Post by Topaz » June 8th, 2015, 2:55 pm

I have to say I cant see the problem with graves, so far I've encountered it only 3 times and won all of those times, beside doing alot of dmg to my fiendish imp I fail to see anything OP with it, I'm still much more annoyed by fragment of anger's Spiritfire Beam.
As it was mentioned earlier Graves OP might be only when syncing with murkalot (altough if you encounter it alot like everything else it can be countered with a simple stun/interrupt ).

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Re: Graves observations

Post by Luciandk » June 8th, 2015, 3:02 pm

Topaz wrote:I have to say I cant see the problem with graves, so far I've encountered it only 3 times and won all of those times, beside doing alot of dmg to my fiendish imp I fail to see anything OP with it, I'm still much more annoyed by fragment of anger's Spiritfire Beam.
As it was mentioned earlier Graves OP might be only when syncing with murkalot (altough if you encounter it alot like everything else it can be countered with a simple stun/interrupt ).
Spiritfire beam could probably use a 10% health cost to bring it in line with bonestorm. Both doing same damage and having same cd.

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Stark
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Re: Graves observations

Post by Stark » June 10th, 2015, 12:03 am

Digem wrote:
Skavenged wrote:OK, allow me to clarify my comment. I play WoW. I raid two nights per week. I do my dailies to keep my toons up to date. I do the upkeep on my garrisons. And between all that, I try to keep my pet collection up to date. I also used to pvp, but with all the other game stuff taking up my time, I had to give something up. PvP had to go. Basically, in order to improve myself in WOW, I have to stop actually playing WoW, and spend that time playing another game? Now as I said, I don't mind rewarding other people for finding the time to play other blizz games, but the reward should not be a game changer in THIS game.
It literally takes a few days to get to 20 in hots.
Secondly you could counter the team and not worry about getting graves.
Plenty of really good aquatics out there any frog with bubble and swarm of flies would do extremely well against this team.
There is always a counter, just have to figure it out that is half the fun of pvping in pet battles
Holy cow, you're either ignorant or more than likely running graves in your team.
Firstly, it may only take you play several days of playing a mediocre game you don't want to play to get graves, but he only shines with murkalot. Enlighten me, how many days will it take for me to obtain murkalot when i don't already have him? Ohh, i can't? Well let's move onto counters then shall we? Well i can just run a critter or aquatic, but that's just going to get rolled by non graves /undead set ups and even with the counter (ive played graves on my friend's account just to test it against counters and it still can potentially win especially when paired with a decent flyer.) Call me a whiner, but when the majority of teams with one humanoid are running from graves, the set up (not graves alone) is op and you know it.

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Re: Graves observations

Post by Topaz » June 10th, 2015, 3:36 am

All humanoid that you usually encounter (idol, imp, qiraji)gave natural counters for it, if its the imp self heal or the others sandstorm. Ive been doing alot of fight the past few days trying to finish the pet monument and beside on the day of its release I havnt seen it. He is terribly predictable, terribly slow. He isnt a game changer, just another example that undead racial is in dire need for a change.

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Re: Graves observations

Post by Happygilmore » June 10th, 2015, 7:28 am

All hail Mud Jumper! that guy destroys both graves and this type of team, bubble + mudslide + tongue lash = great sauce.

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Re: Graves observations

Post by Quintessence » June 10th, 2015, 8:00 am

Everyone is entitled to their own point of view, so let's keep this discussion friendly and avoid any inflammatory comments.
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Feel free to browse through my pet collecting blog: http://wowpetaddiction.blogspot.com

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Re: Graves observations

Post by Vevy » June 10th, 2015, 12:58 pm

Lol at the guy who just slow rolled me on the last turn with his Graves/Murk/Frag of Anger team.

I have been auto-conceding against this comp and just decided to give it a try. I should be slow rolling him in celebration of almost winning.

I have to agree with those arguing that the model for acquiring Graves is a reasonable move to the extent that he is all but universally available. I don't really like HOTS and I was able to bear 20 levels just fine.

As far as the meta is concerned, I have already seen a lot less of him being played, perhaps in reaction to critters and Discodoggy's Pet of The Month fox shenanigans. But part of what is missing from this conversation is the good that can come out of a severe meta shift. Until the weekend, I was seeing a lot less MPDs and Teroclaws. This made me VERY HAPPY. They seem to have returned with the new week though. I would rather play against Graves every third game than play against MPDs and Teroclaws every other game.

But others are also making a good point: to those that say that Graves can be easily countered, the problem arises when the counter is so niche that it upsets all your other matchups. Luckily, Rabbits and Foxes are decent even against non-Graves teams (good vs MPD, for instance and good versus other undead).

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Re: Graves observations

Post by Lazuliann » June 12th, 2015, 12:39 am

Skavenged wrote:OK, allow me to clarify my comment. I play WoW. I raid two nights per week. I do my dailies to keep my toons up to date. I do the upkeep on my garrisons. And between all that, I try to keep my pet collection up to date. I also used to pvp, but with all the other game stuff taking up my time, I had to give something up. PvP had to go. Basically, in order to improve myself in WOW, I have to stop actually playing WoW, and spend that time playing another game? Now as I said, I don't mind rewarding other people for finding the time to play other blizz games, but the reward should not be a game changer in THIS game.
I think it really comes down to how much you'd like to have Graves.
I don't really care for pvp type combat at all so I won't be continuing with HotS, but I wanted the pet, and since it's a free to play game..
It only took me 4 days to get to level 20, and I consider that a fair exchange of my time for a unique pet.
I passed the word about HotS to friends who I know would like the game, and 20 levels is a reasonable amount of time to try out the game, so I don't feel like I just took the pet and ran.

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