Wailing Caverns and the TERRIBLE bag

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Digem
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Re: Wailing Caverns and the TERRIBLE bag

Post by Digem » June 6th, 2017, 12:19 pm

Mehetabel wrote:
Uduwudu wrote:Hi,

I have not done this, and like the Celestial Tournament, I am opposed to it, and was opposed to it in the start ... the rewards are NOT worth the effort and in one case here, getting a repeat and a repeat of the same reward, or worse, like Blizzard is not smart enough to see that the same nothing ten times in a row is not only insulting, it is downright malicious.
You're comparing apples and oranges. Wailing Caverns is NOTHING like CT. With CT, you got a guaranteed token so you knew those pets would be yours eventually. You were earning them and you would get them. With WC it's completely down to luck or lack thereof.

Most of us WANT Wailing Caverns to be done like Celestial Tournament and how Deadmines is going to be, with a currency.

Not to be funny Uduwudu, but going by all your posts you seem to have real issues with the game and pet collecting. I'm curious, do you actually enjoy it at all, because it doesn't come across that way as you seem to hate everything about it? Your constant negativity on here is actually quite depressing to read and, honestly, can't be good for you. It's a game. We all like a little moan, of course, but try to have a little more fun with it and not take it all quite so seriously. ;)
That is what I don't get about his posts at all. Everything in this game or games like this are and have been a grind. One just gets to choose the grind they like be it pet collecting, mount collecting, achievement completing, raiding etc... when all is said and done it is a repeating grind. The problem most if not all here are having is the add rng that blizz is loving to add more and more. A grind is one thing with a clear goal at the end but these rng grinds make it seem pointless and endless. I for one am fine with a set grind but this rng is starting to grate on me big time

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Re: Wailing Caverns and the TERRIBLE bag

Post by Uduwudu » June 7th, 2017, 12:56 am

Digem wrote: ...
That is what I don't get about his posts at all. Everything in this game or games like this are and have been a grind. One just gets to choose the grind they like be it pet collecting, mount collecting, achievement completing, raiding etc... when all is said and done it is a repeating grind. The problem most if not all here are having is the add rng that blizz is loving to add more and more. A grind is one thing with a clear goal at the end but these rng grinds make it seem pointless and endless. I for one am fine with a set grind but this rng is starting to grate on me big time
I don't mind the grinds. Heck, I just got me the Tiny Sporebat ... as an example, and went after the fishing pets in Shattrath ... and such.

What is weird to me, is that Blizzard has gone back on their words, when they said that the harder it is to do something the bigger the rewards, so I suppose that we could say that the Wailing Caverns is not a challenge, thus, not worth chasing the results, specially when some folks keep getting the same thing over and over and over again, as has been stated in another post.

Again, it is fine to chase something when it is worth it. In the old days, the best gear was in the Molten Core, and we raided with 40 folks (40 right, or was it 25?) until we were able to get the gear pieces needed to help most folks in our guild, and most of us did, up to and including a couple of alt's. The grinds, TODAY, are nothing like those days, so it's no big deal.

The only complaint I have, is that Blizzard is continuously giving us really cheap rewards, since they have made the decision that we do not need any more strong pets for our arsenal, and I do not mind them doing that if they are HONEST and say so, but they are not being honest and creating the "dungeon" and giving you the same pet 5 times in a row, is downright mean and inappropriate and all it will do is get folks disappointed ... how does that help the game?

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Re: Wailing Caverns and the TERRIBLE bag

Post by Digem » June 8th, 2017, 5:01 am

Uduwudu wrote:
Digem wrote: ...
That is what I don't get about his posts at all. Everything in this game or games like this are and have been a grind. One just gets to choose the grind they like be it pet collecting, mount collecting, achievement completing, raiding etc... when all is said and done it is a repeating grind. The problem most if not all here are having is the add rng that blizz is loving to add more and more. A grind is one thing with a clear goal at the end but these rng grinds make it seem pointless and endless. I for one am fine with a set grind but this rng is starting to grate on me big time
I don't mind the grinds. Heck, I just got me the Tiny Sporebat ... as an example, and went after the fishing pets in Shattrath ... and such.

What is weird to me, is that Blizzard has gone back on their words, when they said that the harder it is to do something the bigger the rewards, so I suppose that we could say that the Wailing Caverns is not a challenge, thus, not worth chasing the results, specially when some folks keep getting the same thing over and over and over again, as has been stated in another post.

Again, it is fine to chase something when it is worth it. In the old days, the best gear was in the Molten Core, and we raided with 40 folks (40 right, or was it 25?) until we were able to get the gear pieces needed to help most folks in our guild, and most of us did, up to and including a couple of alt's. The grinds, TODAY, are nothing like those days, so it's no big deal.

The only complaint I have, is that Blizzard is continuously giving us really cheap rewards, since they have made the decision that we do not need any more strong pets for our arsenal, and I do not mind them doing that if they are HONEST and say so, but they are not being honest and creating the "dungeon" and giving you the same pet 5 times in a row, is downright mean and inappropriate and all it will do is get folks disappointed ... how does that help the game?

That is what me and most people are trying to tell you. It's the rng of the drop of the reward that bothers us. You seemed to be focused on whether the pet is "strong" in your opinion that makes it worth going after. Most of us here don't care if the pet is "strong" or not as we our collectors and completionists and just want the pet and don't care if it is "strong". The rng drop design doesn't reward hard work just luck and that is wrong. To worry about whether a pet is "strong" or not is misguided as they can't keep making pets "strong" because either they then make that pet mandatory or make older pets obsolete. At most if a pet is "strong" or not should factor in if one decides to level it or not or how fast they worry about leveling it.

Rng drops negate hard work and rewards luck and is bad/lazy game design period.

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Re: Wailing Caverns and the TERRIBLE bag

Post by Badpathing » June 9th, 2017, 11:48 am

Man Digem, you really hate RNG. Every thread I come across with your post in it lately states as much.

You sure you like MMOS? They are based off RNG systems.
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Re: Wailing Caverns and the TERRIBLE bag

Post by Berrenger » June 10th, 2017, 4:33 pm

Digem wrote:
Uduwudu wrote:
Digem wrote: Rng drops negate hard work and rewards luck and is bad/lazy game design period.
I'm not sure I follow, how is playing a game hard work? Perhaps someone could explain that to me....

In any event, never forget that the RNG element of WoW is deliberately designed to keep you playing (and by association keep you paying your monthly subscription), by getting you to do the same content over and over, ad nauseum, until you get the reward/s you want.

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Re: Wailing Caverns and the TERRIBLE bag

Post by Milotha » June 10th, 2017, 4:52 pm

For me the difference between rng and tokens is the following.

With tokens, I see my progress towards the item everytime I complete the task. It gives me a sense of accomplishment, since I know I can do the grind, and now all that is left is the actual work towards a guaranteed reward. No work is wasted.

With rng, I know that each chance of a drop is independent. No previous failures to get the drop will effect the outcome of the next chance. All the work is wasted if it doesn't drop. The feeling of wasted work adds up till I start looking at other places to accomplish things when I will complete the task. Having 1/1000 chances or worse means I will be buying the item. I know that even with completing the task 1000 times, I am not guaranteed the drop. I'm a person that doesn't believe I will get lucky. I don't believe I will win the lottery. With a large number of low chance rng rewards, I will just stop pressing the skinner box lever.

If they added a bad luck protection mechanic to each independent pet roll, then it would feel less frustrating. Less wasted effort.
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Re: Wailing Caverns and the TERRIBLE bag

Post by Gráinne » June 11th, 2017, 3:19 pm

This conversation keeps repeating itself on various Blizzard forums.
A: "I HATE RNG. Hate it, hate it, hate it."

B: "Don't be silly: the whole game has always been based on RNG."
Yes, A could have been more specific, but we all know what A meant, so there's no value in getting pedantic about it.

Nobody has ever had problems with 30% drops, or 20% drops, or 10% drops. Anubisath Idol and many other RWL drops are in the 10% range, as are the Pandaren Spirit pets. Many wild pets have 8 or 10 breeds.

1% drops have usually been reserved for long-term vanity projects like Invincible or Mimiron's Head. I suspect Crysa is 1%, and as a daily that's not too bad.

Yes, there have been lots of 1% and lower when the content isn't timegated, and you can slaughter mobs 24-7 to your heart's content, for drops like Gundrak Hatchling.

I don't know what the drop rate of the Spore is, but by now I'm thinking 1% isn't out of the question. If it's really more like 5%, then maybe we're overreacting.

If Wailing Caverns was otherwise worth doing, either in intrinsic interest or in other rewards, then there would be a reason to go there other than for the Spore. And pet collectors feel obliged to get a Spore. And there are few enough of them that they are pretty expensive, and likely to remain so. It is not fun to feel obliged to do an unpleasant half an hour every week on a 1% chance.

Personally, I can't pick up a pitchfork for this one, because although the RNG is obnoxious, the pet is tradable.

I do understand what people actually mean when they say they hate RNG, though, and I sympathise.

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Re: Wailing Caverns and the TERRIBLE bag

Post by Gilneas » June 12th, 2017, 6:23 am

The issue I've mostly had with the conversation you highlight is how it keeps getting said that they are adding more RNG into it. That's pretty untrue. There have, as you say, always been low drop chance pets. You'd have a hard time convincing me that's there are demonstrably more now than there were before. It's always been there. It used to be the primary way of making a rare pet. Many of us got our start on .1% drops like the whelps.

I think it's also hard to justify the point that they're using it significantly more than usual when there's a separate conversation/complaint that is essentially the opposite. I'm referring to the conversation surrounding the BoP pets that require you to do specific things or play certain classes. Most notably the class hall pets. People seem to be complaining from both sides of this.

Maybe it's because I've done this for over 12 years but I see no reason to complain. Some are going to be easy. Some will be hard. Some will be time consuming. Some will be annoying. Some will be costly. Some you might even have to trade for if it's not working out. There's a variety and overcoming adversity is inherently part of the collecting.

As far as the pet dungeons go, they've either listened to people's comments or just don't want to do the same reward system every time to avoid it getting boring. Either way the RNG aspect of the conversation regarding dungeons seems moot at the moment. And no, given that they've never done so in the past I don't expect them to change WC's reward system post implementation.

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Re: Wailing Caverns and the TERRIBLE bag

Post by Milotha » June 12th, 2017, 10:38 am

The problem is they are adding low rng behind heavily gated material. So instead of farming 1000 whelps over a couple of days, you are now waiting for daily or weekly resets before you get another chance at it. You cannot increase your chances of a jackpot by repeatedly spinning the wheel over and over at your grind pace.
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Re: Wailing Caverns and the TERRIBLE bag

Post by Maizing » June 12th, 2017, 12:28 pm

Drudatz wrote:
Milotha wrote:I wish the instance awarded an ultimate pet battle stone or a large amount of cash. Something as a consolation prize. I am happy the new one has tokens, so maybe they learned their lesson.
Why do you want it to drop UPBS when you can buy these in Dalaran from Serr'ah for 45 Pet Charms????
Plus, that is a horrible reward for those of us who already have all pets to level 25, especially since those stones are soul bound (instead of account bound) and do not stack.

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Re: Wailing Caverns and the TERRIBLE bag

Post by Milotha » June 12th, 2017, 1:06 pm

Maizing wrote:
Drudatz wrote:
Milotha wrote:I wish the instance awarded an ultimate pet battle stone or a large amount of cash. Something as a consolation prize. I am happy the new one has tokens, so maybe they learned their lesson.
Why do you want it to drop UPBS when you can buy these in Dalaran from Serr'ah for 45 Pet Charms????
Plus, that is a horrible reward for those of us who already have all pets to level 25, especially since those stones are soul bound (instead of account bound) and do not stack.
I already answered this question in the previous posts.
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Re: Wailing Caverns and the TERRIBLE bag

Post by Drudatz » July 14th, 2017, 7:26 pm

Milotha wrote:Plus, that is a horrible reward for those of us who already have all pets to level 25, especially since those stones are soul bound (instead of account bound) and do not stack.
They stack now (I dont get why they still arent BoA....)


Addition to my rant: last week I finally got my Cavern Moccasin....
(still I wish this place wouldnt be so depressing comapred to deadmines...)

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