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Wailing Caverns and the TERRIBLE bag

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Drudatz
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Wailing Caverns and the TERRIBLE bag

Postby Drudatz » June 1st, 2017, 7:41 pm

So its been 10 weeks since release of Wailing Caverns as Pet Dungeons
and today I open my bag reward and for the freaking tenth time I
get this Young Venomfang.

Are others having the same bad luck?

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Vakeetah
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Re: Wailing Caverns and the TERRIBLE bag

Postby Vakeetah » June 1st, 2017, 7:50 pm

Just be happy that you are getting pets at all. Some of us just get Battle-Stones and bandages! :roll:
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Desi
 
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Re: Wailing Caverns and the TERRIBLE bag

Postby Desi » June 2nd, 2017, 1:07 am

I've only ever gotten one.single.venomfang.

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Re: Wailing Caverns and the TERRIBLE bag

Postby FuxieDK » June 2nd, 2017, 5:26 am

Drudatz wrote:So its been 10 weeks since release of Wailing Caverns as Pet Dungeons
and today I open my bag reward and for the freaking tenth time I
get this Young Venomfang.

Are others having the same bad luck?

My luck is much worse: Got the Young Venomfang in my first bag nothing since..

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Shashos
 
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Re: Wailing Caverns and the TERRIBLE bag

Postby Shashos » June 2nd, 2017, 11:22 am

Ah, wish I had your luck! I've gotten 2 Cavern Mocs and nothing since. I bought a Venomfang. No Spore yet, but I keep on checking the AH. Haven't done my run for this week though. Here's hoping! :D

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Re: Wailing Caverns and the TERRIBLE bag

Postby Badpathing » June 2nd, 2017, 12:37 pm

I stopped farming that terrible experience and just bought the missing pets off the AH.

WC is a failure content wise, pet dungeons as a system are good..here's hoping the Deadmines are better.
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Drudatz
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Re: Wailing Caverns and the TERRIBLE bag

Postby Drudatz » June 3rd, 2017, 9:03 pm

Okay I might have put it to the exaggerate and only have gotten 6 or 8 cause I sell them on Kazzak and they are allways sold in an instance....

Badpathing wrote:I stopped farming that terrible experience and just bought the missing pets off the AH.
WC is a failure content wise, pet dungeons as a system are good..here's hoping the Deadmines are better.

If I hade the gold/money sure Id do that :(
Thankfully no matter how good/horrible Deadmines will be you get a currency so you can BUY all pets....

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Re: Wailing Caverns and the TERRIBLE bag

Postby Shashos » June 4th, 2017, 3:28 pm

No pets again this week. You know, if this was just one of a very few examples of the pervasiveness of the increase in RNG with Legion, I think I could deal with it better. But this is just one more saddening and frustrating thing to feel let down over when day after day you fail to see anything come out of the work you do because of poor RNG. Everything has become a bag with a poor drop rate on the vanity rewards, from the Emissary system, to Paragon, and now this.

I'll keep at it, but it's getting harder and harder to encourage myself to do it lately. I'm reaching the end of my tether as it is with the Withered Training quest and still no fox mount.

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Re: Wailing Caverns and the TERRIBLE bag

Postby Uduwudu » June 4th, 2017, 11:12 pm

Hi,

I have not done this, and like the Celestial Tournament, I am opposed to it, and was opposed to it in the start ... the rewards are NOT worth the effort and in one case here, getting a repeat and a repeat of the same reward, or worse, like Blizzard is not smart enough to see that the same nothing ten times in a row is not only insulting, it is downright malicious.

I kinda wish that no one ... and I mean NO ONE ... would go in there for 7 days ... so Blizzard can, hopefully, get this addressed. It's the same thing with the supposedly "random" pet you get in the Garrison dailies ... like it would not have known you already have this pet or not, but gives it to you anyway ... I would rather have the bandages, I guess.

I doubt that you will get me into that place ... and of course, the minute that I do and finish, if they log things, it will say that I failed on fight 732 and you had to restart it, and that means that your whole thing is not going to get you a prize ... it's going to get you a roll of toilet paper!

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Re: Wailing Caverns and the TERRIBLE bag

Postby Digem » June 5th, 2017, 4:52 am

Uduwudu wrote:Hi,

I have not done this, and like the Celestial Tournament, I am opposed to it, and was opposed to it in the start ... the rewards are NOT worth the effort and in one case here, getting a repeat and a repeat of the same reward, or worse, like Blizzard is not smart enough to see that the same nothing ten times in a row is not only insulting, it is downright malicious.

I kinda wish that no one ... and I mean NO ONE ... would go in there for 7 days ... so Blizzard can, hopefully, get this addressed. It's the same thing with the supposedly "random" pet you get in the Garrison dailies ... like it would not have known you already have this pet or not, but gives it to you anyway ... I would rather have the bandages, I guess.

I doubt that you will get me into that place ... and of course, the minute that I do and finish, if they log things, it will say that I failed on fight 732 and you had to restart it, and that means that your whole thing is not going to get you a prize ... it's going to get you a roll of toilet paper!



But this one isn't like the celestial tournament at all. If one put the work into the celestial tournament one got those pets. Which is the point of this thread which you seemed to of missed. The OP and players like me do not mind having to work for a pet and earning it. What we don't like is rng deciding if and when one gets the pet. Add in the pets here have different breeds and it is rng on top of rng and that is what is wrong with it.
The celestial tournament was done right. If one puts the work in one gets/earns the reward. What your problem is with the celestial tournament and earning rewards has nothing to do with the this.

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Milotha
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Re: Wailing Caverns and the TERRIBLE bag

Postby Milotha » June 5th, 2017, 5:28 am

I wish the instance awarded an ultimate pet battle stone or a large amount of cash. Something as a consolation prize. I am happy the new one has tokens, so maybe they learned their lesson.
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Re: Wailing Caverns and the TERRIBLE bag

Postby Gilneas » June 5th, 2017, 7:11 pm

Uduwudu wrote:I have not done this, and like the Celestial Tournament, I am opposed to it, and was opposed to it in the start ... the rewards are NOT worth the effort and in one case here, getting a repeat and a repeat of the same reward, or worse, like Blizzard is not smart enough to see that the same nothing ten times in a row is not only insulting, it is downright malicious.


But... it's not the same as the CT at all. Yes, you had to do the CT successfully 10 times to get all 4 reward pets. But you knew that going in. The first time gave 3 of the currency, each successive time gave 1. Took 12 to get all 4 pets. Unless you personally choose to get something else first (or skip weeks), you know exactly when you will get all 4 pets. I this case, you might get it after 10 tries, but you might not. You just don't know! Of course, the flipside (which is not consolation to those mired in bad luck) is that you can get it complete sooner than 10 weeks.

Uduwudu wrote:It's the same thing with the supposedly "random" pet you get in the Garrison dailies ... like it would not have known you already have this pet or not, but gives it to you anyway ... I would rather have the bandages, I guess.


If you have acquired the pet already (on that specific character), it doesn't give you another. Not sure what you were trying to say there.

Uduwudu wrote:I doubt that you will get me into that place ... and of course, the minute that I do and finish, if they log things, it will say that I failed on fight 732 and you had to restart it, and that means that your whole thing is not going to get you a prize ... it's going to get you a roll of toilet paper!


Just like the CT, once you've got it figured out, repeating it is fairly easy (unless your strats are somewhat iffy and you don't have redundancy). Having a large stable, of course, also helps with this.

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Re: Wailing Caverns and the TERRIBLE bag

Postby Drudatz » June 6th, 2017, 12:50 am

Uduwudu wrote:I have not done this, and like the Celestial Tournament, I am opposed to it, and was opposed to it in the start ... the rewards are NOT worth the effort and in one case here, getting a repeat and a repeat of the same reward, or worse, like Blizzard is not smart enough to see that the same nothing ten times in a row is not only insulting, it is downright malicious.
I kinda wish that no one ... and I mean NO ONE ... would go in there for 7 days ... so Blizzard can, hopefully, get this addressed. It's the same thing with the supposedly "random" pet you get in the Garrison dailies ... like it would not have known you already have this pet or not, but gives it to you anyway ... I would rather have the bandages, I guess.
So first you complain about not enough pets on the ah and next you complain about getting a pet twice? is that irony?

Uduwudu wrote:I doubt that you will get me into that place ... and of course, the minute that I do and finish, if they log things, it will say that I failed on fight 732 and you had to restart it, and that means that your whole thing is not going to get you a prize ... it's going to get you a roll of toilet paper!
I dont know why you hate so much on these but (apart from the reward system from wc) pet battle dungeons are a great addition to the game!

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Drudatz
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Re: Wailing Caverns and the TERRIBLE bag

Postby Drudatz » June 6th, 2017, 12:52 am

Milotha wrote:I wish the instance awarded an ultimate pet battle stone or a large amount of cash. Something as a consolation prize. I am happy the new one has tokens, so maybe they learned their lesson.

Why do you want it to drop UPBS when you can buy these in Dalaran from Serr'ah for 45 Pet Charms????

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Re: Wailing Caverns and the TERRIBLE bag

Postby Gráinne » June 6th, 2017, 3:35 am

I can't feel too indignant about the bag. RNG drops have been a part of pet battles since the start, (Spirit Tamers, RWL) and as long as the RNG pets are tradable, I see no problem in principle. I wonder whether the Spore is tuned a bit low, but I guess they want the farming to last for a bit. I had to do a lot of runs for Invincible and Mimiron's Head, too.

I'm not crazy about the experience of doing the dungeon. The CT was always a joy to look forward to, and I still have Celestial Coins in my bank I'm never going to be able to use, just from going back to do it for fun with different teams after I got all the pets. WC is more of a "/sigh I better get this done for the week" reaction.

I also, in apparent contradiction of my opening, am not crazy about the bag. But what else can they give us?

There are several breeds of the two common pets, so a reasonable drop rate for those (maybe 20%? 30%) is consistent.

They want to stretch the longevity by the low drop rate on the Spore. (Any estimates so far? 1%? Wowhead has no numbers yet.) Not enthused, but OK. I'd be OK with the longevity too if I enjoyed the dungeon more, but they can't all be winners.

So maybe 70%-80% of the time on average, we're going to get a non-pet bag.

So what else could be in that bag that would make it better?

The devs have run out of rewards to distribute. They gave away the farm already by making everything available for Pet Charms, and then making Pet Charms pour out of everything in Legion like water out of a bucket that just took a shotgun blast. HazelNutty is now advising the best way to start pets as:

1. Get Boon of the Zookeeper.
2. Play normally for a couple of days.
3. Collect your Charms and buy a couple of Purple stones.
4. Boost your first couple of pets

And she's not wrong. I'm just sad that that original experience, which was so brilliantly and insightfully crafted, is now obsolete... I digress. Sorry.

So, apart from Pet Charms, what else could they put in there?

I killed the EU BS WB on 6 characters yesterday. Coined them all. I got one piece, and 12 times 20 gold and 11 times some AP.

By this standard, the consolation bag is pretty OK.

Gold? The streets of New Dala are paved with the stuff. It's raining gold. Gold in Legion flows more freely than Pet Charms. My characters have to keep looking up in case a big meteor of pure gold falls on them and smashes them. I just watched a vid of a guy who makes 25 million every month - admittedly, he has to make an effort for that, but still, it's an amount that was previously unthinkable.

Purple stones? As Drudatz said, see Pet Charms.

Yes, I prefer the deterministic method of the CT and the upcoming Deadmines, but I believe there should also be some RNG rewards, so long as the drop rates are humane and the experience good.

So,

1. How is this different from Spirit Tamers, which nobody complained about?
2. What, specifically, could the devs do to make consolation bags more interesting?

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Drudatz
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Re: Wailing Caverns and the TERRIBLE bag

Postby Drudatz » June 6th, 2017, 4:34 am

Gráinne wrote:I also, in apparent contradiction of my opening, am not crazy about the bag. But what else can they give us?
make the quests NOT accountwide for starters :)

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Re: Wailing Caverns and the TERRIBLE bag

Postby Milotha » June 6th, 2017, 4:38 am

Drudatz wrote:
Milotha wrote:I wish the instance awarded an ultimate pet battle stone or a large amount of cash. Something as a consolation prize. I am happy the new one has tokens, so maybe they learned their lesson.

Why do you want it to drop UPBS when you can buy these in Dalaran from Serr'ah for 45 Pet Charms????



Because that would be better than 3 pet battle bandages and a single 1 level to pet type x stone. I'd rather have 45 pet charms than the current default reward.

Edit. I guess, I think there are people out there who are not avid players and not avid collectors who can be enticed in with better rewards. A level 25 pet looks pretty nice to someone who doesn't have everything collected and leveled to 25. They don't have boon of the zookeeper as their enchant, they don't necessarily do all the pet dailies everyday. They aren't drowning in gold. The more people doing this, the better a chance at the rare pets dropping in the world and the more likely they will be available for sale.
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Re: Wailing Caverns and the TERRIBLE bag

Postby Gráinne » June 6th, 2017, 4:51 am

Drudatz wrote:
Gráinne wrote:I also, in apparent contradiction of my opening, am not crazy about the bag. But what else can they give us?
make the quests NOT accountwide for starters :)

Hmmm. That's saying give us more bags rather than changing what's in the bag, but I guess ... on the other hand, I really don't want to be doing that 7 times a week.

Edit. Milotha answered my question above. :)

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Re: Wailing Caverns and the TERRIBLE bag

Postby Paladance » June 6th, 2017, 6:34 am

Gráinne wrote:1. How is this different from Spirit Tamers, which nobody complained about?
2. What, specifically, could the devs do to make consolation bags more interesting?

1. I'm a late Pandaria baby so feel free to yell if I'm wrong on MoP but:
  • I believe Spirit Tamers are somewhere in-between regarding drop rate. Rarer than Venomfang/Moccasin, but less rare than Everliving Spore. And one can attempt to collect them more often, daily in 4 separate battles and bags.
  • These pets used to be more valuable because of a relative freshness (of the Air and Water at least -- an accidental pun? :roll:) and a greater unit/total ratio -- however cold it sounds, more pets on the bunch means that a single one becomes less meaningful.
  • No RNG over breeds if it matters at all.
  • And Pandaria didn't have as much RNG influencing all branches of the game (okay, the farm procs, Bonkers and obviously mob drops, but even then you could reforge at least -- not like I miss it). Nowadays we have legendaries, emissaries, garrison/order hall work orders, paragons, tributes, Legionfall Recompense, Xur'ios, Meat to Pet, some spec rotations and so on…
2. I, actually, have so much Venomfangs and Moccasins it isn't a big difference to me whether they drop or not… except when I manage to trade them. =P And in a more general manner, questing on alts is sometimes annoying will all minor rewards stuck in inventory and having to be sent to one character over and over (Same with Pandaria, though).
But would I like to get nothing instead?
No. :)
Warning: I'm going outside the box, on a contrary to otherwise scarce diversity. It may be even outlandish a bit. But how to create a reference point without setting up the scale? :P
  • I thought about consumable teleports to pet tamers or dungeons, but they would surely require a specific user level so not really alt-friendly either.
  • A consumable item permanently and globally lengthening duration of a chosen pet-dedicated toy with it by 20% of the basic duration. Stacks to a maximum bonus of 100%. Not specific to Damp Pet Supplies but presumably also PvP weekly, BoF bags, etc, though with a scaled down rate.
  • A random card for Darkmoon transmogs (poor plate users have been betrayed :<) or a Mysterious Fortune Card. It's still a certain amount of gold in disguise, though.
  • A Timewalking-esque version of the loot from the original dungeons (or references to them) so we feel more connected with the background. I've also proposed some Timewarped Badges in the past; it wouldn't be very alt-friendly though and this time I'd prefer them to be contained in a BoA bag because that's what we are doing with reputation tokens anyway. :P

On a similar note: one day we could repeat the Algalon encounter. I don't see that via a pet dungeon activity, however.
Last edited by Paladance on June 6th, 2017, 3:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Wailing Caverns and the TERRIBLE bag

Postby Mehetabel » June 6th, 2017, 10:52 am

Uduwudu wrote:Hi,

I have not done this, and like the Celestial Tournament, I am opposed to it, and was opposed to it in the start ... the rewards are NOT worth the effort and in one case here, getting a repeat and a repeat of the same reward, or worse, like Blizzard is not smart enough to see that the same nothing ten times in a row is not only insulting, it is downright malicious.


You're comparing apples and oranges. Wailing Caverns is NOTHING like CT. With CT, you got a guaranteed token so you knew those pets would be yours eventually. You were earning them and you would get them. With WC it's completely down to luck or lack thereof.

Most of us WANT Wailing Caverns to be done like Celestial Tournament and how Deadmines is going to be, with a currency.

Not to be funny Uduwudu, but going by all your posts you seem to have real issues with the game and pet collecting. I'm curious, do you actually enjoy it at all, because it doesn't come across that way as you seem to hate everything about it? Your constant negativity on here is actually quite depressing to read and, honestly, can't be good for you. It's a game. We all like a little moan, of course, but try to have a little more fun with it and not take it all quite so seriously. ;)
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