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Regarding all the complaining about pets in Legion

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Mehetabel
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Regarding all the complaining about pets in Legion

Postby Mehetabel » February 22nd, 2017, 11:37 am

I honestly think people are seriously overreacting about this. Sure there are some pets that are quite hard to get this expac but that's a challenge . . . which is fun and leads to a feeling of achievement.

There is not one Legion pet that is absolutely impossible to get, given some time, determination and patience. The problem is that people have a really bad "I want everything and I want it NOW" attitude these days (not only regarding pets or even this game).

Pet gated behind a mythic achieve? Wait until next expac, grab some friends and go have fun doing it. Pet gated behind PvP? Ask some pvp minded friends/guildies if they will give you some pointers and if you can tag along with them. Pet gated behind gold? Do gold WQ's and missions, gather stuff, craft stuff, run old raids. Pet gated behind class order halls? Level up an alt. It can be fun, you get to try a new class, pick gathering profs and you can even make some gold on the way up.

Moaning and complaining really irritates me because it is just attitude and entitlement. If you want something go and EARN it. Work for it. If you want it badly enough, you'd get it eventually.

Even I'm finding it slow-going this expac. By now I would normally be 1st on my server for pets. This time around I'm way behind. There are things I really dislike . . . pet battles and Brawlers Guild, to name a couple. However I'm not stamping my feet and yelling about how unfair life is thanks to our mean overlords at Blizzard, I'm taking the challenge, putting my head down and getting on with it because I know it will be worth the sense of achievement at the end.
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Quintessence
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Re: Regarding all the complaining about pets in Legion

Postby Quintessence » February 22nd, 2017, 12:00 pm

I respectfully do not agree.

I do not agree that all discussions revolving around Legion pets (specifically the DK/Monk pets) have been simply whining or complaining. There have been valid points made on both sides, for and against, and even suggestions on how compromise can be had without taking away from the intended experience of collecting the pet.

I do not agree that all those who oppose the way the DK/Monk pets are obtained are behaving or responding unreasonably and/or in an entitled manner. Many have already conceded that yes, this is going to be a long-term goal. Still, it would not hurt to reduce the requirements somewhat.

And I personally do not see users discussing these matters as overreacting. To me, constructive discussion shows how passionate some in the community are. We haven't had as much uproar about pets in previous expansions (other than maybe Graves), so I'd like to think this community is usually very reasonable, tolerant, and welcoming of challenges.

It has to be said, going from Druid/DH/Warlock/Shaman pets to the upcoming class pets...it's a huge jump. Completely unexpected. I think it's only natural to respond in a likewise alarmed fashion.

We have to consider all players and where they're coming from. We also need to consider why certain opinions and reactions are popping up in this particular expansion. IMO there are many factors to the recent disgruntled discussions, and it's not as simple as "I can't get X pet now. It's too hard."

It's ok to be for the way a pet is implemented. It's also ok to not like how a pet will be collected. It's ok to not agree with Blizzard's design choices. It's ok to not agree with each other. Sometimes, no matter the debate or points made, people's point of view will not change. All of this is fine as long as we continue to maintain a civil, friendly atmosphere.

In the end, we're all here to celebrate and share our passion/love for pet collecting and Pet Battles!
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Re: Regarding all the complaining about pets in Legion

Postby Peterc » February 22nd, 2017, 1:52 pm

I agree with a lot of what you say Mehetabel (I also agree with Quintessence more) but in respect of the following;

[quote="Mehetabel
Moaning and complaining really irritates me because it is just attitude and entitlement. If you want something go and EARN it. Work for it. If you want it badly enough, you'd get it eventually.
[/quote]

Stop reading Posts would be my suggestion if it irritates you. :)

Playing whatever content Blizzard release is one approach and I often employ it myself. However wanting to influence what is being done is also an approach and isn't this the reason for most if not all forums?

At the end of the day the content is the content and we all choose which we do and which we don't.

Also however badly you want something sometimes you never get it.

Peterc

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Re: Regarding all the complaining about pets in Legion

Postby Desi » February 22nd, 2017, 2:06 pm

Mehetabel wrote:Moaning and complaining really irritates me because it is just attitude and entitlement.


Yea, this is not a way to start a discussion or new thread.

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Re: Regarding all the complaining about pets in Legion

Postby Peanutty » February 22nd, 2017, 2:54 pm

My complaint about the order hall pets is it has nothing to do with what toon you want to play, and after last xpac where the developers specifically said they didn't want players to just play alts to cover professions (or to make garrisons to make money), now they want players playing alts just to cover pets?

I don't mind grinds at all. When I first tried to level all my pets to 25, I calculated that it would take me something like 300 days. I found that acceptable - heck, it's less than a year! - and did it without complaint. I don't even have a problem with the prestige pets, because I can see the progress I'm making, slow as it is. What I don't want to do is a grind that only involves classes that I have no interest in playing.

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Re: Regarding all the complaining about pets in Legion

Postby Digem » February 23rd, 2017, 5:54 am

Peanutty wrote:My complaint about the order hall pets is it has nothing to do with what toon you want to play, and after last xpac where the developers specifically said they didn't want players to just play alts to cover professions (or to make garrisons to make money), now they want players playing alts just to cover pets?

I don't mind grinds at all. When I first tried to level all my pets to 25, I calculated that it would take me something like 300 days. I found that acceptable - heck, it's less than a year! - and did it without complaint. I don't even have a problem with the prestige pets, because I can see the progress I'm making, slow as it is. What I don't want to do is a grind that only involves classes that I have no interest in playing.



Agreed completely peanut. Add in that one can always get AP, gear upgrades with procs even in Lfr( I got an 880 piece from it), and finally legendaries for ones main spending the time doing all these things on an alt I have zero plans to do anything on but to get these pet(s) seems like a waste. Watch I'll get a best in slot legendary for my monk and DK and really annoy myself.

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Re: Regarding all the complaining about pets in Legion

Postby Deviantelf » February 23rd, 2017, 10:50 am

Peanutty wrote:My complaint about the order hall pets is it has nothing to do with what toon you want to play, and after last xpac where the developers specifically said they didn't want players to just play alts to cover professions (or to make garrisons to make money), now they want players playing alts just to cover pets?

I don't mind grinds at all. When I first tried to level all my pets to 25, I calculated that it would take me something like 300 days. I found that acceptable - heck, it's less than a year! - and did it without complaint. I don't even have a problem with the prestige pets, because I can see the progress I'm making, slow as it is. What I don't want to do is a grind that only involves classes that I have no interest in playing.


This is pretty much my complaint. I don't mind grinds, I'm over 70 exalted, loremaster, 300 toys, near 250 mounts, 830+ pets, etc. Because it was content and it was fun and I did it all on the same character. Started out with me new to the game and exploring, if I'm exploring I might as well do loremaster and the quests, and then oh my look at the reps I've gotten questing, so I should top them off for oodles of pets and mounts, then I can run these dungeons or do these other things like dailies to get more exalted reps and get more stuffs.

I'm no stranger to grind. I played EQ on a PVP server back in the day for years. I was trying to pace myself with my husband in WoW with our first characters so I did the stop getting xp thing and leveled pets in Uldum at level 60 for a while, so he could catch up (obviously I didn't know there were better pet leveling or how much phasing was in the game! lol)... but I don't regret it.

But gating pets behind not only leveling a class but completing extra stuff just seems ... silly to me. That's just my personal opinion of course, but it seems like collecting pets has been a pretty fair playing field while now it's turning into "level/level and do this stuff and you can have a pet) which is so very different to what getting pets was before, so I can easily see why it'd ruffle a lot of feathers around the world.

I'm even happy doing the pvp grind, in fact I've kinda found it fun (without grouping for it)... but making a char, just to level a class, and then do more stuff, just to abandon the char cause you got the pet just seems, again, silly as a concept at all. I haven't touched my DH or Druid since they got their pets, except to learn transmog mailed to them... so there's that.. but that's a pretty weak argument for it.

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Re: Regarding all the complaining about pets in Legion

Postby Rayjin » February 23rd, 2017, 11:17 am

Well if you dont like playing a monk/dk or doing pvp then just dont. I am happy i can hardcore grind some pets this xpac it gives me something to do.

Before the Legion Lunch there was a talk from blizzard to introduce Epic grade stones.
But sadly all most everyone bashed it :(
I would be so happy to upgrade each of my 8xx pets to Epic and i dont know why people are so upset about that.

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Re: Regarding all the complaining about pets in Legion

Postby Digem » February 23rd, 2017, 11:31 am

Rayjin wrote:Well if you dont like playing a monk/dk or doing pvp then just dont. I am happy i can hardcore grind some pets this xpac it gives me something to do.

Before the Legion Lunch there was a talk from blizzard to introduce Epic grade stones.
But sadly all most everyone bashed it :(
I would be so happy to upgrade each of my 8xx pets to Epic and i dont know why people are so upset about that.



Not doing it isn't close to a viable option for a collector and you know that. With all there is to do this expansion , and I like it by the way, adding even more seems excessive.
Finally, will one even be able to do this in future expansions? How will you summon the boss from the class hall for the warlocks for example? How will one max out ones weapon? Will WQ still be out there? Will they still rotate them? More AP comes from mythic+'s will they still be able to be done? Challenge mode dungeons aren't anymore. Will they still drop AP? Will anyone want to do it with you? Same thing for pvp prestige. Will it still be collectable in future expansions?
See these are some of the problems most other collectable stuff in game in the past one could go back and solo later like raid pets and mounts. Will this be? To get say AP will one have to use the old weapons and thus make soloing it hard or not possible?
Starting to see some of the problems?

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Re: Regarding all the complaining about pets in Legion

Postby Rayjin » February 23rd, 2017, 12:36 pm

not really? i play 3-4h a day and i am close to reaching p7 with my alt and i am capped at 9 50 with my main.
Startet leveling my monk dk and rogue last weekend all are at 104 now.
When the hit lvl 110 i am only doing AK with them until they hit 25 and then wait for the patch to max out AK again till 40.
You should do some math because with 1165000% you get 4.500.000 AP with "one" daily hc.
So tell me please again how hard it is to cap out 3 weapons with DK? the time investment is basicly none.
and doing pvp is so super easy you get 1,9k honor doing 5 wq so you get one prestige level every 26 days so even when you start fresh now you only need half a year.

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Re: Regarding all the complaining about pets in Legion

Postby Adumbledore » February 23rd, 2017, 1:30 pm

Rayjin wrote:not really? i play 3-4h a day and i am close to reaching p7 with my alt and i am capped at 9 50 with my main.
Startet leveling my monk dk and rogue last weekend all are at 104 now.
When the hit lvl 110 i am only doing AK with them until they hit 25 and then wait for the patch to max out AK again till 40.
You should do some math because with 1165000% you get 4.500.000 AP with "one" daily hc.
So tell me please again how hard it is to cap out 3 weapons with DK? the time investment is basicly none.
and doing pvp is so super easy you get 1,9k honor doing 5 wq so you get one prestige level every 26 days so even when you start fresh now you only need half a year.


The only reason that the time investment is basically non-existent for you is because, like you said, you play 3-4 hours a day. For those that don't have that kind of time commitment, it's going to take much longer to complete.
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Re: Regarding all the complaining about pets in Legion

Postby Gráinne » February 23rd, 2017, 1:34 pm

How much of this will be available in future expansions is up to the devs. They remove things, for reasons that make no sense to me, but they mostly don't. They also remove mechanics, to make things soloable in later expansions. So they will do what they will do, and we can't know what. We can only guess, based on previous experience.

"How will you summon the boss from the class hall for the warlocks?"
Warlocks do need 2 others to summon, but Demon Hunters don't. The devs could easily make warlocks able to solo summon. The bosses already approach soloability for well geared tank DHs (and possibly locks with VW?) so will be easy meat solo in future expansions.

"How will one max out ones weapon? Will WQ still be out there? Will they still rotate them?"
Isle of Quel'Danas is still there. The Kalu'ak are still there. Tol Barad is still there, and the Molten Front. The Celestials still rotate. Why would we think WQs are going anywhere?

"More AP comes from mythic+'s will they still be able to be done? Challenge mode dungeons aren't anymore. Will they still drop AP? Will anyone want to do it with you?"
CMs are a very different case from Mythics. With class and stat changes, CMs would have to have been entirely retuned every expansion, and the devs really don't like the idea of people twinking for earlier expansions anyway. Mythics+, on the other hand, have no cap or gear limits, so there is no reason to remove them. And why would you need anyone to do them with you when you're 10 times more powerful than you are now? We can blow away Draenor Mythics today as if they were nothing.

To get say AP will one have to use the old weapons and thus make soloing it hard or not possible?
You can already do WQ and get AP rewards even when not using the artefact. Why would we think that would change?

"Same thing for pvp prestige. Will it still be collectable in future expansions?"
I don't have an answer for that. PvP rewards and systems are weird and incomprehensible - to me at least. However, since I'll never see more than the Prestige 1 pet(s?) anyhow, I'm kind of over that one. :)

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Re: Regarding all the complaining about pets in Legion

Postby Badpathing » February 23rd, 2017, 2:12 pm

Mehetabel wrote:I honestly think people are seriously overreacting about this. Sure there are some pets that are quite hard to get this expac but that's a challenge . . . which is fun and leads to a feeling of achievement.


I agree 100%. I think there is a prevalent posture here on these forums to assume pet collecting should be a certain way and should not change.

I am extremely excited to see the devs push pets into new genres and I am very attracted to the challenge they pose in terms of collecting.
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Re: Regarding all the complaining about pets in Legion

Postby Hearte » February 23rd, 2017, 3:32 pm

Badpathing wrote:
Mehetabel wrote:I honestly think people are seriously overreacting about this. Sure there are some pets that are quite hard to get this expac but that's a challenge . . . which is fun and leads to a feeling of achievement.


I agree 100%. I think there is a prevalent posture here on these forums to assume pet collecting should be a certain way and should not change.

I am extremely excited to see the devs push pets into new genres and I am very attracted to the challenge they pose in terms of collecting.


I have a slightly different take on this. Reaching Prestige 7 is indeed a hard challenge, if only in terms of requiring a massive amount of patience. The problem is that if you want both pets, you are required to do the EXACT same grind again. It's an awful, awful slog. I've become more detached from my main guild on Alliance, because I'm spending half my time on my Horde character to grind honor... I don't think most people want every pet for little to no effort; they want to earn pets based on fair, challenging content.

And, requiring you to basically main an arbitrary class you may not want to play for a pet is pigeon-holing game play with little logic in the way of fairness.

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Re: Regarding all the complaining about pets in Legion

Postby Badpathing » February 23rd, 2017, 4:05 pm

Hearte wrote:I have a slightly different take on this. Reaching Prestige 7 is indeed a hard challenge, if only in terms of requiring a massive amount of patience. The problem is that if you want both pets, you are required to do the EXACT same grind again. It's an awful, awful slog. I've become more detached from my main guild on Alliance, because I'm spending half my time on my Horde character to grind honor... I don't think most people want every pet for little to no effort; they want to earn pets based on fair, challenging content.


I actually agree on this particular point, and I think I commented as much either in this thread or another. But essentially, while I don't like pvp, I don't find the prestige grind terrible; if done once. Doing it twice is ultimately, in my opinion, a lazy carrot and I think it should be taken out (or rather, merged into "do it once, get both").
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Re: Regarding all the complaining about pets in Legion

Postby Maizing » February 23rd, 2017, 6:10 pm

Peanutty wrote:My complaint about the order hall pets is it has nothing to do with what toon you want to play, and after last xpac where the developers specifically said they didn't want players to just play alts to cover professions (or to make garrisons to make money), now they want players playing alts just to cover pets?

I don't mind grinds at all. When I first tried to level all my pets to 25, I calculated that it would take me something like 300 days. I found that acceptable - heck, it's less than a year! - and did it without complaint. I don't even have a problem with the prestige pets, because I can see the progress I'm making, slow as it is. What I don't want to do is a grind that only involves classes that I have no interest in playing.

This can't be repeated enough.

I had no issue grinding all of my pets to level 25.

I had no issue doing the Celestial Tournament.

I have no issue doing any pet related things for my pets.

I also have no issue with the occasional pet that is obtained by doing content unrelated to pet battles (such as Clock'em) for those willing to do that content.

Furthermore, I am a serious alt-o-holic. I currently have 48 alts at 100, 3 more in their 90s, a handful in their 80s, and a bunch in their 70s (with a total of 87 alts altogether across two wow accounts). I have at least one of every class at 100, with multiples of classes that I enjoy more. While I do not have Legion at this time, eventually, it is going to be added to the battle chest, and I am more than prepared to do what is needed to get the class order hall pets.

The amount of tasks that are unrelated to pet battles required for the class pets is ridiculous.

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Re: Regarding all the complaining about pets in Legion

Postby Badpathing » February 23rd, 2017, 6:21 pm

Peanutty wrote:I don't even have a problem with the prestige pets, because I can see the progress I'm making, slow as it is. What I don't want to do is a grind that only involves classes that I have no interest in playing.


I'm pretty sure you can gauge your progress through the DK 'grind' just the same. Furthermore, your interest in playing a class can be as low as my interest in pvp'ing; you see how subjective that is? Just say "I don't want to do it", don't try to qualify why you SHOULDN'T want to do it, it's just not going to work. It's a personal choice.

Maizing wrote:I also have no issue with the occasional pet that is obtained by doing content unrelated to pet battles (such as Clock'em) for those willing to do that content. The amount of tasks that are unrelated to pet battles required for the class pets is ridiculous.


So, it's a grey area then. You are willing to do things outside of direct pet collecting, but only to an extent. OK, where is that line in the sand? It was a trick question, the answer doesn't really matter. It doesn't matter because like I responded above, this is a personal choice in game full of lots of other people.

If it's good for other players to an extent that qualifies the content, it's good. Unfortunately, these threads tend to draw only the dissenters while those that are happy with the changes never even glance this way.

The only real valid metric is one that Blizzard has; what are the majority of players doing and what works to keep players busy and social.
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Re: Regarding all the complaining about pets in Legion

Postby Vakeetah » February 23rd, 2017, 6:56 pm

Digem wrote:Agreed completely peanut. Add in that one can always get AP, gear upgrades with procs even in Lfr( I got an 880 piece from it), and finally legendaries for ones main spending the time doing all these things on an alt I have zero plans to do anything on but to get these pet(s) seems like a waste. Watch I'll get a best in slot legendary for my monk and DK and really annoy myself.

If you'll allow me my opinion on this matter... isn't everything you do on most characters "a waste"? I mean, all that AP, all those gear upgrades, are simply rendered obsolete in a matter of months - whereas pets will remain, forever, in your collection.

Perhaps we have a different concept of what a waste is, but honestly, I'd rather spend my time on the permanent gains (instead of things like doing every WQ everyday for a chance at an item maybe being Titanforged).
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Re: Regarding all the complaining about pets in Legion

Postby Badpathing » February 23rd, 2017, 7:13 pm

Vakeetah wrote:
Digem wrote:Agreed completely peanut. Add in that one can always get AP, gear upgrades with procs even in Lfr( I got an 880 piece from it), and finally legendaries for ones main spending the time doing all these things on an alt I have zero plans to do anything on but to get these pet(s) seems like a waste. Watch I'll get a best in slot legendary for my monk and DK and really annoy myself.

If you'll allow me my opinion on this matter... isn't everything you do on most characters "a waste"? I mean, all that AP, all those gear upgrades, are simply rendered obsolete in a matter of months - whereas pets will remain, forever, in your collection.

Perhaps we have a different concept of what a waste is, but honestly, I'd rather spend my time on the permanent gains (instead of things like doing every WQ everyday for a chance at an item maybe being Titanforged).



Word.
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Re: Regarding all the complaining about pets in Legion

Postby Digem » February 23rd, 2017, 11:57 pm

Vakeetah wrote:
Digem wrote:Agreed completely peanut. Add in that one can always get AP, gear upgrades with procs even in Lfr( I got an 880 piece from it), and finally legendaries for ones main spending the time doing all these things on an alt I have zero plans to do anything on but to get these pet(s) seems like a waste. Watch I'll get a best in slot legendary for my monk and DK and really annoy myself.

If you'll allow me my opinion on this matter... isn't everything you do on most characters "a waste"? I mean, all that AP, all those gear upgrades, are simply rendered obsolete in a matter of months - whereas pets will remain, forever, in your collection.

Perhaps we have a different concept of what a waste is, but honestly, I'd rather spend my time on the permanent gains (instead of things like doing every WQ everyday for a chance at an item maybe being Titanforged).



It's a main though and thus the one I want to play on not an alt that without the pet I might not even need of leveled. You see the difference right ?

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