Against new class hall pets!!

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Adumbledore
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Re: Revolt against new class hall pets!!

Post by Adumbledore » February 16th, 2017, 2:12 pm

Quintessence wrote:
Paladance wrote:@Quintessence, what do you think about the communication here? I can't get rid of a feeling that it'd look a bit different if there was an appropriate feedback on official forums (though maybe is it that there is no relevant way anymore?). I don't observe Twitter, so I can't tell if you were alone in your effort -- but hats off for your determination and patience.
There's a thread in the official Bnet Pet Battle forums about 7.2 content, but it's not dedicated exclusively to class pet feedback.

I'd create a proper feedback thread in the 7.2 PTR Bnet forums, but I'm honestly exhausted at this point.

I feel like I've been yelling into the void and/or created an echo chamber around myself. (Am I simply being unreasonable thinking that these class pets are going too far? Is my point of view held by the majority? Or am I part of the vocal minority? I really can't tell anymore.)

If anyone wants to start a constructive feedback thread focused on the upcoming class pets in the official 7.2 PTR Bnet forums (EU and/or US), I'd be happy to chime in to add my 2 cents and encourage others to add their feedback as well.

I'm not sure what else I can say regarding the class pets. I'm not advocating "dumbing down" the game. I simply think some compromises could be made on both sides of the argument. What harm could making class pets more collector-friendly? *shrug*
I'm going to make one, but I do wonder if it will get read at this point, honestly.

Edit: It's up now. https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20753098752
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Re: Revolt against new class hall pets!!

Post by Uduwudu » February 16th, 2017, 4:04 pm

Hi,

I do not know that it helped, but I plugged in my two cents worth, and it isn't pretty. This is not about wine, roses and cheese ... it's about a complete disrespect for the player base, by folks that do not play this game at all.

And it needs to be addressed.

We can only hope, and I certainly appreciate the efforts that many of you have tried to include/add in this whole thing, and that also goes for Q, that has done a lot in the background that we have not seen.

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Re: Revolt against new class hall pets!!

Post by Moppet » February 16th, 2017, 4:34 pm

I can't believe they actually made it worse. I was not happy about leveling up alts to obtain class-gated pets, now I don't even have the words to accurately express how outraged I'm feeling.

They better be cage-able.

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Re: Revolt against new class hall pets!!

Post by Quintessence » February 16th, 2017, 4:39 pm

Adumbledore wrote:I'm going to make one, but I do wonder if it will get read at this point, honestly.

Edit: It's up now. https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20753098752
Thanks for this. The least we can do is try to get our feedback heard.

Whether you support or don't support the new class pets, if you plan on leaving feedback keep it constructive, respectful and on-topic. Developers and others will be more receptive to responses.

The pet collecting/battling community is the best community that I've had the honor to be a part of. Our feedback should represent and reflect all the great qualities of this particular player-base. :)
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Re: Revolt against new class hall pets!!

Post by Harpooha » February 16th, 2017, 11:11 pm

My first reaction when I saw this topic was - Wot? I was prepared to reply with snark and condescension, but some folks have made valid points. It's not as off the wall as I first thought.

I am 55, so I have some sympathy for age related issues. As the song goes, "You know that you're over the hill when your mind makes a promise your body can't fill" FWIW, running dungeons while drinking helps. Comments don't bother me if I can't read them :). But at least I can appreciate the argument. Others make no sense to me.

Blizzard has tried to do something in this XPac which I commend them for. Putting the Multiplayer back in the MMO. For a long time I have been a one stop shop. Making everything from potions to gems to armor. Patted myself on the back for being self sufficient. I'm not certain I was enjoying the game.

It became obvious early on that I really couldn't do that in Legion. Ultimately, I left a dying guild and joined a new one. I've raided at Normal and Heroic for the first time ever. And I learned that when it's a lot more satisfying to do what you are good at and have others help you with the rest.

But the underlying part to this is Blizzard saying that you can't have it all. You have to make some decisions. My main guy is doing pretty well. Alts are in various states. But generally I'm happier. While some people look at it as gating, I look at it as channeling. If you want all the pets, you will have to make some choices about how to channel your energy.

I understand the collector mentality. Been through it with baseball cards. I have over 1000 tapes of old Phish concerts - mostly collecting dust now.I learned along the way that it's more important to appreciate what you have than stress over what you don't.

There are a lot of pets I'll never have. I played during TBC, but quit before Lich King came out. Came back during MOP and considered pets a waste of time. I'll never have the CE pets or Blizzcon pets, but I don't begrudge those that so. And I've always felt it was a nice reward for those who have stuck it out. Now I have a chance to grind out something that suits my playstyle. And we have to move the goalposts to suit collectors? I don't get it.

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Re: Revolt against new class hall pets!!

Post by Gráinne » February 17th, 2017, 12:36 am

I was outraged by what they did with Graves, and I still am.

This is at least within the confines of the game, and merely a grind, so I don't understand why class pets are more revolting ... er, revolt-worthy. :)

I do feel it is a regrettable direction, though.

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Re: Revolt against new class hall pets!!

Post by Quintessence » February 17th, 2017, 1:57 am

Gráinne wrote:I was outraged by what they did with Graves, and I still am.

This is at least within the confines of the game, and merely a grind, so I don't understand why class pets are more revolting ... er, revolt-worthy. :)
IMO it boils down to Graves being a one time deal. Reach level 20 in Heroes of the Storm, earn the pet, and you never have to touch the game again.

The class pets are spread across multiple classes, which means multiple time investments. On top of that the DK and Monk pets require additional (grindy and uninspired) progression, well after you've leveled up and unlocked the Order Hall.
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Re: Revolt against new class hall pets!!

Post by Paladance » February 17th, 2017, 1:58 am

I've just figured out that you don't need a PTR account to write on the PTR forums. *facepalm*

But I… I'm not sure if aiming specifically at the pets is a way. I don't want to foul my nest but I'm afraid posting just about pets would be ridiculed or ignored due to low priority. The tendency goes beyond that after all, and addressing it broadly would bring more support. Sadly, I don't have it all on my mind right now, and I can understand all who feel too alienated to post anything.

Thank you Adumbledore for your thread, and Quintessence for your kind words.

And that's a bit OT, but I start to think it's all because of vanilla preachers, whose someone is trying to attract to the game!
*I don't even know whether it stays merely a joke or not*

Ahem. And no amount of effort could make a day longer than 24 hours. Not even mythic raiders could do anything with it!
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Re: Revolt against new class hall pets!!

Post by Desi » February 17th, 2017, 2:56 am

Gráinne wrote:I was outraged by what they did with Graves, and I still am.

This is at least within the confines of the game, and merely a grind, so I don't understand why class pets are more revolting ... er, revolt-worthy. :)

I do feel it is a regrettable direction, though.
Graves was a piece of cake compared to this, a much quicker grind. It took me a couple of weeks with only doing a couple of games per night, whereas I can't even predict how long the new class hall pets will take.

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Re: Revolt against new class hall pets!!

Post by Dolz » February 17th, 2017, 8:28 am

Harpooha wrote:... I'll never have the CE pets or Blizzcon pets, but I don't begrudge those that so. And I've always felt it was a nice reward for those who have stuck it out. Now I have a chance to grind out something that suits my playstyle. And we have to move the goalposts to suit collectors? I don't get it.
In MoP and WoD with time, luck, and a visit to the AH it was reasonably possible to get all the pets in those releases. In Legion with Order Hall pets, PvP Prestige pets, a million gold pet, the very low drop rate of the Knock-off Blingtron, and now Lagan being uncageable collecting all the Legion pets became a huge time sink (if any Devs are reading this, grinding does NOT equal content). If we are asking for the goalpost to be moved it is to back where it was instead of the stadium parking lot. Of course with the possible addition of new PvP Prestige pets and the new Order Hall pets it is the Devs moving the goalposts again. Only this time to a shopping mall parking lot in the next county.

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Re: Revolt against new class hall pets!!

Post by Digem » February 17th, 2017, 10:07 am

Desi wrote:
Digem wrote: They can't expect us to do this can they? Going to max level and unlocking all three relic slots meaning doing all class hall quests would be a lot but this is ridiculous.
I thought I only had to go to around 105 like with my lock and druid to be able to start the attempts at getting the pet.
They better not do this.
Oh god, all those class quests and mythic dungeons /headdesk

On an alt that due to it being an alt I am not that good/skilled on it.
So I need to be carried on it and I hate not pulling my weight on things. Then add in this is time away from my main that I do raid and do mythics and mythic+'s on. The one I want and need AP on and want and still need the best in slot legendaries for. This is all time not doing that and makes me feel I am wasting my time

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Re: Revolt against new class hall pets!!

Post by Harpooha » February 17th, 2017, 3:52 pm

Dolz wrote:
Harpooha wrote:... I'll never have the CE pets or Blizzcon pets, but I don't begrudge those that so. And I've always felt it was a nice reward for those who have stuck it out. Now I have a chance to grind out something that suits my playstyle. And we have to move the goalposts to suit collectors? I don't get it.
In MoP and WoD with time, luck, and a visit to the AH it was reasonably possible to get all the pets in those releases..
I don't really think that's true. AFAIK, CE and Blizzcon pets have never been cageable. I don't even think they are available on the BMAH. I could be mistaken. But I have highlighted a whole host of pets that are not available to me.

I guess it boils down to this. There are a lot of pets that are "gated" by various means. Some by timing. Others by price (I'm not paying $20 for a game I'll never play for 3 pets). Some by time and skill. Why some of these gates are deemed valid and others are not is a bit baffling to me.

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Re: Revolt against new class hall pets!!

Post by Vakeetah » February 17th, 2017, 3:56 pm

While I'm still 100% in favor of "Class pets", I believe they may have gone too far with that :P It's almost too demanding even for a "main"!

I can't support this sort of design decision, as it's insanely grindy, but who knows... it may not be that bad in the end. I have some high hopes for things like Artifact Knowledge 40 (maybe even higher in 7.3?), along with research notes and commendations for alt catch-up, etc. as well as the inevitable content draught at the end of the expansion leaving nothing else worth doing... :roll:
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Re: Revolt against new class hall pets!!

Post by Purezombie » February 17th, 2017, 4:12 pm

My main collector is a death knight, and I feel surprised in this insane achivement to get those 3 pets.

I think the best way to make Blizzard listen is to point out the flaws of a alt unfreindy expansion. Make it easier to play a alt, and the pets will be easier to obtain. Even if they kept the requirement.

At least it seems that alot of people love playing alts, so they would have to listen at some point on that part.

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Re: Revolt against new class hall pets!!

Post by Killerkarl » February 17th, 2017, 4:15 pm

Vakeetah wrote:...as well as the inevitable content draught at the end of the expansion leaving nothing else worth doing... :roll:
I've been wishing for a little content drought for a few months now. Unfortunately I see none in sight. Thank goodness I am no longer a raider.

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Re: Revolt against new class hall pets!!

Post by Dolz » February 17th, 2017, 4:46 pm

Harpooha wrote:
Dolz wrote:
Harpooha wrote:... I guess it boils down to this. There are a lot of pets that are "gated" by various means. Some by timing. Others by price (I'm not paying $20 for a game I'll never play for 3 pets). Some by time and skill. Why some of these gates are deemed valid and others are not is a bit baffling to me.
The problem isn't the pets that were introduced before MoP that aren't available any longer. My concern and I believe most of the folks commenting on this thread is the absurd barriers to collecting all the Legion in game pets. Pet collecting became a major part of the game in MoP. Both MoP and WoD it was possible to collect all the in game pets without devoting most of your gameplay to collecting them. Are there pets I'll never get because I wasn't playing the game at the time, sure and I can live with that. The gates of Blizzard store purchases, Collector Editions, Blizzcon Events, ... have always been there, these are new gates. Why I'm pissed is that they have changed the rules from what MoP and WoD had as fun part of the game to another grind.

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Re: Revolt against new class hall pets!!

Post by Noel » February 17th, 2017, 6:34 pm

Ok I just found out about this....3 fully unlocked weapons for an alt? I will barely have my main's fully unlocked by end of expansion...

I sure hope this is a placeholder. I'm already burning out on the prestige 7 grinds *queues for another bg*

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Re: Revolt against new class hall pets!!

Post by Gráinne » February 18th, 2017, 12:31 am

Quintessence wrote:IMO it boils down to Graves being a one time deal. Reach level 20 in Heroes of the Storm, earn the pet, and you never have to touch the game again.

The class pets are spread across multiple classes, which means multiple time investments. On top of that the DK and Monk pets require additional (grindy and uninspired) progression, well after you've leveled up and unlocked the Order Hall.
Desi wrote:Graves was a piece of cake compared to this, a much quicker grind. It took me a couple of weeks with only doing a couple of games per night, whereas I can't even predict how long the new class hall pets will take.
Do you remember Friends?

Do you remember Ross: "We. Were. On. A. BREEEAAAAAKKKK!" :)

Imagine me in just that tone saying "It's. A. Different GAAAAAMMME!" :D

My sense is that Blizzard can legitimately add pets in game for anything that is available from playing WoW. Now, I'll have comments later about the appropriate and inappropriate in that, but that's my basis.

Adding pets for playing different games is a whole 'nother level of inappropriate - waaaaay worse than any possible addition that can be obtained by playing WoW. It's a categorical difference. It's as inappropriate as adding a pet for playing 20 hours with your local football league.

I am not a pure collector. I started after pets battled, and I don't have the sensibility of people who collected pets before that. I instinctively take the battle-value of pets into account. If Graves had been a non-combat pet, or even a not-interesting-combat pet, I would be less #triggered, but this was THE defining, overpowered, and arguably broken pet, and left in place for a whole year - and from playing a completely different game. That went beyond disliking a design decision. I have never been so disappointed and angry with Blizzard over anything.

I find myself not much exercised by the class pets, in comparison, and certainly nothing like the Graves case.

I am much more bothered by the PvP pets, and the RNG classes, than these.

Levelling a character is rather pleasant. I don't really like DK, and I quite dislike Monk, but I will level them in spare time. I would much prefer to spend 200 hours levelling than 20 hours playing that horrible, horrible HOTS thing. Maybe the requirements for the DK pets will not be as bad as people fear. Getting three full artefacts, even at AK40, sounds like a moderate amount of work, but there's plenty of time, and perhaps the DK requirements will drop, since they do seem out of line with the others. I'm sure I'll get there eventually, even if that's next expansion.

I am less sure I'll ever see the PvP pets or the RNG class drops.

P.S. I should add to clarify:

I think the DK pets, in particular, are too onerous. I don't disagree with anyone on that.

I just think that the PvP prestige pets are worse; I think the class hall random drop pets are worse, and especially I think that Graves was far worse than all of them.

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Re: Revolt against new class hall pets!!

Post by Ranok » February 18th, 2017, 1:10 am

Desi wrote:Graves was a piece of cake compared to this, a much quicker grind. It took me a couple of weeks with only doing a couple of games per night, whereas I can't even predict how long the new class hall pets will take.
So you got into HotS. Great. Lot of us didn't, hated that stupid game cause we don't like that kind of thing.

So now if you want a Class-Specific pet that you don't want to do, seems fair.

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Re: Revolt against new class hall pets!!

Post by Digem » February 18th, 2017, 7:16 am

Ranok wrote:
Desi wrote:Graves was a piece of cake compared to this, a much quicker grind. It took me a couple of weeks with only doing a couple of games per night, whereas I can't even predict how long the new class hall pets will take.
So you got into HotS. Great. Lot of us didn't, hated that stupid game cause we don't like that kind of thing.

So now if you want a Class-Specific pet that you don't want to do, seems fair.

I too agree the way to acquire graves was wrong. Making us play a completely different game and all. One could argue at least the class hall pets require us to play wow which in comparison sounds better.
But, like or even hate hots to get graves took little effort. It was actually quite easy and took not much time. How they have these new class hall pets set up and particularly the dk one will take someone a long time to do so. I raid, do mythics and mythics+'s, and do WQ everyday. I am on average play 4 hours or more a day I would guess. Yet I still don't even have one weapon spec on my main maxed, I am close level 48 and 37 on my off spec. Add in they are adding more talents and levels in at 7.2 and it's even more work. Yes are ak will go up but the AP needed for each level will also go up. At 25 ak it is not so hard to get a weapon to 34 but the points past 34 take a lot of work and is a slow go grind fest. To do that on an alt I won't raid with or do mythics+'s on which greatly speed up the AP grind will take forever. Add in 3 specs and it's insane.
Aquiring graves required us to do something we probably didn't like but one didn't even need to win or be good at hots to get it was annoying.
These new class hall pets require insane grinds and time one just doesn't even have. Add in it be time away from my main and powering it up thru getting AP , legendaries and raiding and most of all zero time to pet battle or collect.
It is ridiculous

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