Rematch 4.0

[Ismenot]

Hello Gello

Like many others I really really love your addon
Is also good to see that you are trying to make the addon better every time and spend so much time for it.
A big thanks for that...... But I only have 1 request.....

Please try not to change alot of things, so that stupid players like me wont understand much of the addon
I mean dont make it to complicated? ( I hope this is an english word lol)

thanks

[Gello]

New version, yesterday, with new UI.....

But where did "Auto add to levelling queue"-option go from config?

It will be back.

You mentioned earlier you don't do betas. Out of curiosity did you intentionally choose to download this one? Or did it get installed on you by the curse client without you being aware of it? I really really hope it's not the latter.

edit: Ugh. What a disaster. It looks like many people were getting the beta version from the curse client without being aware that they were getting it. Real sorry about those affected. I downloaded the curse client to test it for 5 minutes but that apparently wasn't enough. I've posted a new release version to hopefully overwrite the beta, and deleted the beta from curse.

[Jerebear]

1. you used to be able to toggle between minimized and maximized by clicking the current tab, now it only maximizes. Not a huge deal, but it would be nice if it would minimize if you clicked the current tab.

This would require creating custom tab templates and rebuilding the tabs. I'm not opposed to this. Since tabs that look this way in every part of the default UI and every other addon never "revert" or do anything when a selected tab is clicked again, it seemed a more consistent UI behavior.

I know this is old discussion, but I wanted to revisit it now that I've had some time to try it out. It still feels very jarring. I was wonder if an option can be added. I also wanted to provide a counter argument to the

Since tabs that look this way in every part of the default UI and every other addon never "revert" or do anything when a selected tab is clicked again, it seemed a more consistent UI behavior.

To my knowledge in the default UI, tabs don't change the size of the dialog box at all. Rematch is unique in that when you click a tab, that in addition to selecting the appropriate tab, it expands the dialog box from minimized to maximized. Given that, I don't think the default UI precedent fully holds (Rematch is already doing something different than default). Additionally, dialogs that do expand and contract via buttons (map/quest log combo for example) provide click/unclick functionality:



I know it is extra work, but if you do have time, please reconsider an option for the standalone to minimize on the tab click when the dialog is currently maximized. I don't think it applies to the pet journal mode...just the standalone mode.

I'll understand if not, but figured I would give it a try again. I really do appreciate all the work and the great addon, so I apologize if this is distracting from everything else.

[Gello]

Coincidentally I was thinking about those tabs a few minutes ago. You're probably right. I'll look into making those tabs toggle-able. My only concern which isn't a huge concern is that the tabs move from under the mouse when the window is maximized/minimized unless you anchor the window to the bottomleft corner. It wouldn't feel like a proper toggle if you have to move the mouse over to untoggle it. But it can be done.

I'm experimenting with a "single panel" mode that may remove the need for two separate queue tabs (Queue and Pets+Queue) or require its own tabs. I'll wait until seeing how this works out before reworking the toggle-able nature of the tabs.

[Jerebear]

Thanks for considering it again. I do really hope I am not pushing too hard on it. Rematch has been one of the best pet Addons I have come to know, so I feel almost vested in it, even though I am just a user. It's weird how that happens with some addons.

[Gello]

Oh you're not pushing hard. The feedback is appreciated and you were right to have brought this up again. The tabs are reworked and they feel much better. I hope to have it posted tonight. But before I do, do you still find the fading tabs/titlebar to be weird? It's gotten obnoxious to me (hence the addition of the Don't Hide Minimized Tabs option) and there's a bug I can't track down that sometimes causes the tabs to not fade in with the titlebar.

I'm tempted to just rip out all of the fading business but I worry the minimized window is kinda big.

Anyone else's feedback is appreciated too. Would anyone miss the titlebar/tabs fading out when the mouse leaves the minimized window?

[Jerebear]

To be honest, yes, it still feels very weird. From a standalone minimized perspective, it doesn't really reclaim any extra space for me due to how it expands to maximized state (I still have to have space below the unfaded parts for the tabs to show up, so I am not gaining any space by allowing them to fade while minimized).

My vote would be to take out the fading. I don't know what others think.

[Gello]

We'll find out if any miss the fading tabs. It's removed from tonight's update!

Tonight's update (beta-16) has some pretty big changes for how the panels display in the standalone window.

There's a new "Single Panel Mode" (may change name, open to suggestions!) that you can toggle either in options or from a new toggle button in topleft of the maximized standalone window. (May move it to topright corner between minimize and close, but that's a busy corner.) I'll be adding tooltips to a lot of buttons in the near future, this one included.

This mode will collapse the window from two side-by-side panels (pets on left/loadout on right; loadout on left/teams on right; etc) to a single panel, with the loadout pets at the top of the window and toolbar buttons at the bottom. The end result is a hybrid minimized/maximized view that should be more familiar to 3.x rematch users. There is no save buttons in this mode. I don't want to go back to saving from compact windows, and may disable save while on queue or options too (in standalone; save will always be available in the journal window).

I've also combined the "Queue" and "Pets+Queue" tabs together to act like "Pets+Queue" did before, but with loadout pets at the top of the queue. I'm not very happy with this particular setup. While it seems important to be able to slot pets from the queue and also to see what pets got loaded from the queue, it just looks very wrong to me. A couple of you commented that having the loadout panel display alongside the queue isn't necessary, so I may make the queue take up the full height like before. Let me know what you guys think if any strong feelings.

Also for those who have their standalone anchor in the topright or bottomright corners, let me know if the tabs being right-aligned is too weird. I can move them back over to the left (or make it an option). As I mentioned earlier in the thread it feels better if a toggle button remains under the mouse while it toggles. But obviously this can't always be the case (especially when the size of the window changes).

And finally, some of you may notice the single-panel window is just a tiny bit wider than the minimized window. I'm reluctant to add one more pixel to the size of the minimized window, but I'm considering making the minimized window the same width as the single-panel one, so buttons don't shift around and it expands/collapses with aligned edges. Any strong feelings on this?

[Jerebear]

There's a new "Single Panel Mode" (may change name, open to suggestions!) that you can toggle either in options or from a new toggle button in topleft of the maximized standalone window. (May move it to topright corner between minimize and close, but that's a busy corner.) I'll be adding tooltips to a lot of buttons in the near future, this one included.

I love this mode. I do have a suggestion (mentioned at the end).

This mode will collapse the window from two side-by-side panels (pets on left/loadout on right; loadout on left/teams on right; etc) to a single panel, with the loadout pets at the top of the window and toolbar buttons at the bottom. The end result is a hybrid minimized/maximized view that should be more familiar to 3.x rematch users. There is no save buttons in this mode. I don't want to go back to saving from compact windows, and may disable save while on queue or options too (in standalone; save will always be available in the journal window).

I will say this is the big downside to the single panel mode. Why not use the same save dialog as you use in the 2 panel mode? Rather than use a button, you can make the save option a right click option on the load out panel.

I've also combined the "Queue" and "Pets+Queue" tabs together to act like "Pets+Queue" did before, but with loadout pets at the top of the queue. I'm not very happy with this particular setup. While it seems important to be able to slot pets from the queue and also to see what pets got loaded from the queue, it just looks very wrong to me. A couple of you commented that having the loadout panel display alongside the queue isn't necessary, so I may make the queue take up the full height like before. Let me know what you guys think if any strong feelings.

You'll probably hate me for this lol, but I really like the new queue tab. The extremely large loadout panels from before while not terrible seem less natural to me than the one you have setup for the new Queue tab. It really looks good to me.

Also for those who have their standalone anchor in the topright or bottomright corners, let me know if the tabs being right-aligned is too weird. I can move them back over to the left (or make it an option). As I mentioned earlier in the thread it feels better if a toggle button remains under the mouse while it toggles. But obviously this can't always be the case (especially when the size of the window changes).

I would suggest making this an option.

And finally, some of you may notice the single-panel window is just a tiny bit wider than the minimized window. I'm reluctant to add one more pixel to the size of the minimized window, but I'm considering making the minimized window the same width as the single-panel one, so buttons don't shift around and it expands/collapses with aligned edges. Any strong feelings on this?

I'm gonna suggest something opposite here: make the single panel mode stretchable in the left/right direction. I think this would be a small but good compromise for people who don't like the size of the journal or the standalone two panel. Basically stretch the list boxes (pets, teams, and queue) and just fill space on other stuff (loadout, options). It could only shrink as small as the loadout team space and tabs would stay aligned based on the option mentioned previously. There are people who use really long team names:
https://youtu.be/Chlzm9spSJE

Notice the size of the Rematch window. He also uses longer team names than the ones shown at the beginning of that video, but that is the best example I could find right off.

I am sure there are other issues with stretchableness of the single panel, but I think it might be something you could try out if you think you have time.

PS. I mentioned to Disco you were doing a Beat and he should check it out to give feedback. He did have concerns about losing his teams if he did though. I wish there was a user friendly way to backup teams for Rematch. I'm good with going to saved variables and making a copy, but there are a lot of people who are skittish about it.

[Aranesh]

Big change indeed! I always disliked the standalone view because it was another floating UI element cluttering the screen. So in the past I was opening /rematch, changing teams, closing the window. Rinse and repeat for every trainer.

I do like this Single Panel Mode though now. Very much actually. (name suggestion: "Compact View" ?). Having it stretch only vertically makes it much slimmer and also less confusing to the eye in my opinion. The few extra pixels I'm personally not bothered with, but it does look a bit "unclean" with the menu icons jumping a bit.


Got a few more things I want to add this time:

- First off I liked the fading of the menu bars. Ties in with my preference for a tidy screen, and having the bar/menu fade out makes it just a bit smaller and less obtrusive. If it's too much work to have a fading effect, perhaps just a toggle option? The only option I ever use from the top bar is the "close" one anyway, and that could be pushed down into the title bar. Just a suggestion though really. The window is super small and efficient already.

- I noticed an odditiy in the tooltip anchoring. Most elements in the standalone window are dynamically anchored on the mouse position:



However the pets, due to having their own more advanced tooltip, have a fixed location that makes perfect sense in the main view, but is inconsistent with the minimized one:



Obvious solution would be to give them a different anchor setting when the window is minimized - no idea if that's possible or not.

- Last but not least a tiny detail. The small arrow button to collapse / expand the advanced filter options does not flip 180° when toggled:




Adding that would be more consistent with most similar UIs I guess.

Okay enough nitpicking, tell me if it's too early for such small details!

[Gello]

I will say this is the big downside to the single panel mode. Why not use the same save dialog as you use in the 2 panel mode? Rather than use a button, you can make the save option a right click option on the load out panel.

I can reconsider. My feeling against a save button on the compact views is when saving for a target. Someone described the old rematch save behavior as "high strung" which perfectly described how the save button worked there. Its behavior changed depending on whether you had a target or not. So the new Save As... button always assumes a new untargeted team and the Save button in the target panel does what a Save As-while-targeting used to do. One possibility is to have a third save button in this mode: Save, Save As..., Save For Target. I'd probably bring back the blue save icons and make the Save For Target button have a crosshair icon in the corner.

You'll probably hate me for this lol, but I really like the new queue tab. The extremely large loadout panels from before while not terrible seem less natural to me than the one you have setup for the new Queue tab. It really looks good to me.

That's fine. We'll leave it then.

I'm gonna suggest something opposite here: make the single panel mode stretchable in the left/right direction. I think this would be a small but good compromise for people who don't like the size of the journal or the standalone two panel. Basically stretch the list boxes (pets, teams, and queue) and just fill space on other stuff (loadout, options). It could only shrink as small as the loadout team space and tabs would stay aligned based on the option mentioned previously. There are people who use really long team names:
https://youtu.be/Chlzm9spSJE

Notice the size of the Rematch window. He also uses longer team names than the ones shown at the beginning of that video, but that is the best example I could find right off.

I am sure there are other issues with stretchableness of the single panel, but I think it might be something you could try out if you think you have time.

Eww stretchableness. Sooo many headaches from the stretchable nature of the addon. I won't say no, but I may compromise and see about making the single panel view a bit wider so it's a more natural width. It is rather narrow.

edit: After a bit of experimentation this morning, perhaps make the window wide enough to accommodate 3 new toolbar buttons (save, save as and save for target) with the global toolbar buttons remain in the same position/spacing in both minimized/maximized view so they don't wiggle around. It may require flipping them with the tabs but we'll see. This would make the single panel view about 25-30% wider.

PS. I mentioned to Disco you were doing a Beat and he should check it out to give feedback. He did have concerns about losing his teams if he did though. I wish there was a user friendly way to backup teams for Rematch. I'm good with going to saved variables and making a copy, but there are a lot of people who are skittish about it.

On the live version, the "low tech" way to do a backup is to right-click a team tab and Export Teams. It will then export all teams in that tab to text that you can paste somewhere and import back later. This export doesn't include preference and notes (yet). Exporting multiple teams with notes will require some compression and it may even require doing it in separate pages. WoW's editboxes aren't designed to handle text over 10k characters.

Unfortunately that's the best "backup" method from the addon itself. Addons have no file i/o at all and are incapable of saving data to a different file.

I do like this Single Panel Mode though now. Very much actually. (name suggestion: "Compact View" ?). Having it stretch only vertically makes it much slimmer and also less confusing to the eye in my opinion. The few extra pixels I'm personally not bothered with, but it does look a bit "unclean" with the menu icons jumping a bit.

Yeah those buttons moving a few pixels is kind of annoying. But I think from Jerebear's suggestion above I may widen that view.

I do like the name "Compact View". If this view seems to be greatly favored for the standalone window perhaps it will be the default view. We'll see.

- First off I liked the fading of the menu bars. Ties in with my preference for a tidy screen, and having the bar/menu fade out makes it just a bit smaller and less obtrusive. If it's too much work to have a fading effect, perhaps just a toggle option? The only option I ever use from the top bar is the "close" one anyway, and that could be pushed down into the title bar. Just a suggestion though really. The window is super small and efficient already.

I'll look at ways of doing this differently than it was handled before.

- I noticed an odditiy in the tooltip anchoring. Most elements in the standalone window are dynamically anchored on the mouse position:

However the pets, due to having their own more advanced tooltip, have a fixed location that makes perfect sense in the main view, but is inconsistent with the minimized one:

Obvious solution would be to give them a different anchor setting when the window is minimized - no idea if that's possible or not.

If you unlock the pet card (little lock button in upper left) it will snap the pet card back to the pet, and display alongside any pet just like a traditional tooltip. When the pet card is moved it stays wherever it's moved when viewing further pets.

Having separate locked positions for standalone expanded vs minimized is doable, but journal view would need a separate one too. I'm a little worried about the pet card having three separate saved positions.

- Last but not least a tiny detail. The small arrow button to collapse / expand the advanced filter options does not flip 180° when toggled:

Adding that would be more consistent with most similar UIs I guess.

Okay enough nitpicking, tell me if it's too early for such small details!

It's never too early. I'm very much into details. I'll add this to my notes.

[FuxieDK]

New version, yesterday, with new UI.....

But where did "Auto add to levelling queue"-option go from config?

It will be back.

You mentioned earlier you don't do betas. Out of curiosity did you intentionally choose to download this one? Or did it get installed on you by the curse client without you being aware of it? I really really hope it's not the latter.

edit: Ugh. What a disaster. It looks like many people were getting the beta version from the curse client without being aware that they were getting it. Real sorry about those affected. I downloaded the curse client to test it for 5 minutes but that apparently wasn't enough. I've posted a new release version to hopefully overwrite the beta, and deleted the beta from curse.

Got it from Curse

Updated again today, and UI is back to "old normal"...

[Jerebear]

I can reconsider. My feeling against a save button on the compact views is when saving for a target. Someone described the old rematch save behavior as "high strung" which perfectly described how the save button worked there. Its behavior changed depending on whether you had a target or not. So the new Save As... button always assumes a new untargeted team and the Save button in the target panel does what a Save As-while-targeting used to do. One possibility is to have a third save button in this mode: Save, Save As..., Save For Target. I'd probably bring back the blue save icons and make the Save For Target button have a crosshair icon in the corner.

Perhaps you don't need to make the save buttons act any different than they do for the journal. I would consider the journal version the most user friendly and the standalone mode maybe more advanced user (not that advanced users wouldn't use the journal, but that it doesn't default to user friendly all the time). What issues do you think might arise if the saved buttons worked the same both modes? Your current target is available in the WoW UI and Rematch has the name of the currently loaded team in the standalone mode, so I don't think there would be any confusion from that. Thoughts?

Eww stretchableness. Sooo many headaches from the stretchable nature of the addon. I won't say no, but I may compromise and see about making the single panel view a bit wider so it's a more natural width. It is rather narrow.

edit: After a bit of experimentation this morning, perhaps make the window wide enough to accommodate 3 new toolbar buttons (save, save as and save for target) with the global toolbar buttons remain in the same position/spacing in both minimized/maximized view so they don't wiggle around. It may require flipping them with the tabs but we'll see. This would make the single panel view about 25-30% wider.

Maybe I should take a step back and not suggest a solution but more setup the scenario to think about. If you looked at the video, take a look at how Disco uses rematch. He has it in the larger size and uses large team names. My thought was the current Beta might be too squished for someone who has those type of preferences. Is there a way to accommodate that that won't mess with Rematch as a whole? The slightly larger single panel may be the answer. We'll have to play with it and see.

[Aranesh]

If you unlock the pet card (little lock button in upper left) it will snap the pet card back to the pet, and display alongside any pet just like a traditional tooltip. When the pet card is moved it stays wherever it's moved when viewing further pets.

Having separate locked positions for standalone expanded vs minimized is doable, but journal view would need a separate one too. I'm a little worried about the pet card having three separate saved positions.

I see! And I understand now where the confusion came from. When the window is unlocked it anchors to the mouse, but as soon as you click on a pet for permanent pet window and then drag the pet window anywhere, it locks the window again to the position you drag it to. Didn't notice that before.
I still think it's awkward because of the screen usage. In normal view it's fine, the window takes up 60% of the screen and the pet window can be placed anywhere without being detached from the rest.
For minimized view it's different, and to me looks weird if some tooltips are at the bottom right (where I put the compact window), while the tooltip is on the top left.

Anyway, I see your point! Thanks for clarifying

[Gello]

Perhaps you don't need to make the save buttons act any different than they do for the journal. I would consider the journal version the most user friendly and the standalone mode maybe more advanced user (not that advanced users wouldn't use the journal, but that it doesn't default to user friendly all the time). What issues do you think might arise if the saved buttons worked the same both modes? Your current target is available in the WoW UI and Rematch has the name of the currently loaded team in the standalone mode, so I don't think there would be any confusion from that. Thoughts?

The plan would be for the three buttons to behave the same as the three buttons on the expanded standlone and journal:
- Save (red button at bottom) to re-save the loaded team.
- Save As... (red button at bottom) to create a new team.
- Save (black button in target panel when targeting something without a saved team) to save for a target.

I suppose the target save button is not totally necessary, since Save As... can manually choose a target, including your most recent target (even if they're not targeted).

And a small aside: the maximized single-panel window as yet has no way to load something that you target, like the minimized window does. I'll likely display the compact target panel in the single-panel standalone window (and push the rest of the panel down to make room) but that'd be too cramped. It's not an issue for those who use prompt to load or auto load, but it does need addressed. Bringing up the window to load a team for something you just targeted is something I'd like to consistently support.

So with this the thought occurred to make a compact target panel in the single panel view always there (offering to save when load not an option), but imho it'd be far too cramped.

A third save button (to mimic the target panel one) and a small target panel appearing within the window (only when you have a target with a saved team not loaded) may be a good compromise for space and functionality.

Maybe I should take a step back and not suggest a solution but more setup the scenario to think about. If you looked at the video, take a look at how Disco uses rematch. He has it in the larger size and uses large team names. My thought was the current Beta might be too squished for someone who has those type of preferences. Is there a way to accommodate that that won't mess with Rematch as a whole? The slightly larger single panel may be the answer. We'll have to play with it and see.

He may be okay if he's fine with team names wrapping. I didn't look at the whole video but the longest name I saw was "11-5-1 Desperately Seeking Carry" which fit.

But yeah I'm not totally happy with how squished the team list is. Long names fit becauce they wrap, but many dislike when names wrap. What seems to make the team panel so squished is those three pets alongside each team. Early versions of the team list had the name take up the whole width with tiny icons of the team appearing below, so names wouldn't wrap so soon. I also tried having a "battle UI formation" orientation of pets, with one in front and two others stacked behind (picture how your pets are arranged at the top of the default battle UI). And also just not having pet icons and having the team name.

At the same time, a great bulk of teams are named after NPCs which have relatively short names (with some exceptions). Devoting a large amount of space creates a lot of empty space.

So perhaps making the window just a little wider may help a lot.

It will be ironic after all this, the standard view many people use is built roughly like 3.x.

As an aside, I really like how he names teams with what I assume is a win/loss/forfeit ratio. I'd like to avoid rematch getting involved in the battles themselves, but it would be wicked cool to attach a win/loss/forfeit to teams automatically.

[Jerebear]

I think it is win/loss/draw (forfeits count as either a loss for the forfeiter or a win for the opponent).

I agree that the save target button seems very redundant. I would expect the "save as" would be used for different targets (or no target) while the save just updates pets/abilities for the current team. I think you only need the two save buttons (for any mode)

[Jerebear]

It will be ironic after all this, the standard view many people use is built roughly like 3.x.

That's not necessarily a bad thing (depends on how it affects maintenance for you) as it will keep your audience broader if they have options like that.

[Gráinne]

Gello, when this goes live I predict you will get quite a few queries about the changed behaviour.

This is the third time this week I've come here to note something I originally thought was wrong, only to realise, in the process of documenting it, that you have handled the case correctly, maybe even better than I would have expected, but in a different way. Today's episode from me would have featured the five NPC-IDs for Erris and the missing-pet handling.

It gives me a lot of confidence to find that you have already covered these corner cases.

[Jerebear]

Request:
Standalone version: option to load on login (minimized version). I use the minimized version 90% of the time and keep it loaded unless it gets in the way of something (rare, but happens). Having it load on login would be a nice quality of life, but since it loads when you load a target, it isn't a make or break kind of thing for me.

[Aranesh]

Got another request as well
I noticed that the leveling queue is saved per character. Doesn't really make sense considering pets are battle.net account bound. I don't know if that's technically possible, but it would of course be cool if all my twinks shared the same leveling queue.