Rematch 4.0

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Gello
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Re: Rematch 4.0

Post by Gello » September 4th, 2015, 9:54 am

Aurae wrote:When I initially started using Rematch (when PBT broke after a patch and you offered a fix to those users), I imported my teams from PBT. I was not familiar with the "leveling pet" slot designation then. For the time, it was more of what I was used to seeing.

As far as the leveling queue, I will generally pop X amount of my level 20+ pets in there and run around the Frostfire Ridge area for a little while until those pets are leveled out. Kind of like an incentive to clear the queue - I get to stop battling. Lol.
For tamer battles, I drag and drop pets, since I swap them out at each tamer. It is just habit more than anything now, due to having used PBT for as long as I did.

I do not think there is anything wrong with your system at all. The leveling icon looks fine, and certainly stands out in the teams. It is definitely "prettier" than the red question mark. :P
That helps a lot thanks! So it sounds like you use the queue to park pets but it's often empty. And since the "Put Leveling Pet Here" doesn't work when the queue is empty, then teams can't be saved with leveling pets.

And after firing up PBT and playing with it a bit, it seems the SOP is to save a team and manipulate the pets after it's saved. In Rematch teams are always manipulated before they're saved. Not understanding this essential difference is what really confused me.

This is easily solvable with a right-click menu on pets in the team list to "Put Leveling Pet Here" to mirror PBT's "Remove Pet". It would directly edit the slot on the team to be a leveling pet without needing to deal with the queue. Sorry if this has been what folks have been asking for and I was too dense to understand. It seems very obvious after the fact. This should appear in the next build later this weekend.

I notice also in PBT that you drag pets onto an existing team slot to change the pets in a team. Is this often done? This can be easily done too. Though it seems really weird since you have no control over what abilities the pet would have when the team loads. But switching abilities and then hitting save is always possible.
Aranesh wrote:Hey! I don't want to interrupt the conversation but just wanted to express a huge thanks to you Gello,
Everyone is welcome to join the conversation! Thanks too!


Totally unrelated: a new update was posted this morning (beta-13) with what may be the "final" form of how team notes and preferences carry from one team to another. Let me know if anyone has any comments about it. Specifically:

- If you have a team loaded with notes and preferences, when you click "Save As..." to create a brand new team, it will also save the notes and preferences to the new team.
- If you save over an existing team with notes or preferences, it will prompt to ask if you want to overwrite the team with a new checkbox "Overwrite Notes & Preferences Too". It's off by default, so that when you save a howl bomb team over another target, it will preserve the original target's notes. But if you turn it on it will stay on until you check it off again.

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Iibis
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Re: Rematch 4.0

Post by Iibis » September 6th, 2015, 5:32 am

Regarding PBT, from the limited experience I had with that addon was that I always managed to screw up my saved teams by having a team loaded and then just switching pets and it would somehow save that to the team without asking me. I can't remember clearly how it happened exactly, but before I had Rematch I remember clearly not being particularly happy about it. I think making any changes to a team should always require hitting a save button. I hope that doesn't change!
Gello wrote:- If you have a team loaded with notes and preferences, when you click "Save As..." to create a brand new team, it will also save the notes and preferences to the new team.
This seems to be how it works now on the live version, or am I missing something? With that I've so far managed to create a lot of teams with wrong notes and leveling pet preferences, because I have always some team loaded from a previous tamer (or pvp team) but the new one usually doesn't have anything to do with that team or target. I don't actually know how to unload a team? I still feel like the default assumption for brand new teams should be that it's a new team so the notes from a previous aren't relevant.
Gello wrote:- If you save over an existing team with notes or preferences, it will prompt to ask if you want to overwrite the team with a new checkbox "Overwrite Notes & Preferences Too". It's off by default, so that when you save a howl bomb team over another target, it will preserve the original target's notes. But if you turn it on it will stay on until you check it off again.
For me it would actually be more logical that this kind of a system would be used with the "save as" and the system you described with the "save as" would be the default behaviour with "save". If I think of Windows operating system in general, "Save" normally just saves/overwrites the file without prompts while "Save as" gives more options with file name and format. :)

Notes got me thinking, would anyone want to have notes saved per NPC? Like, targeting Aki the Chosen would pop up a note (before battle) if you had written one. Different users would probably find different uses for that. I was thinking that you could save some typical sequences the tamer's pets use (like, "X will always use ____ on the 2nd round") or since the multiple teams aren't yet implemented, you could save a reminder note that you have multiple teams to choose from.

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Re: Rematch 4.0

Post by Gráinne » September 6th, 2015, 7:23 am

I'm just getting around to -13.

1. That Safari Hat option is SO handy now that the Hat is in the Toy pane. :)

2, I definitely want the (team/target) Notes window to pop up when I click on the Target, if Notes is not empty. That is, if I have saved Notes for a trainer, then I will always want them displayed when I click the trainer.

3. Notes can too easily get lost. If I do exactly this:

a) Save a note for a team/target. All is good.
b) Click on the target. Team loads.
c) Select Set Notes. Notes are displayed, but my cursor is set to type into Notes. This is reasonable if I want to edit Notes, but I will probably be editing Notes only once. In practice I started typing "1" into the start of my notes because I didn't realise the Notes window had focus. Messy, but not terrible.
d) I see I have made a mess in the Notes window. Oops.
e) I delete or modify the text, and then Esc, expecting that to abandon my changes. However, it doesn't abandon them; it Saves them, even though I did not select Save.

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Flohsakk
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Re: Rematch 4.0

Post by Flohsakk » September 6th, 2015, 8:21 am

There's one thing I think about all the time... I prompt load minimized (reminder blabla) on targets and I always wonder if I really need these pets (with pet cards) of my target there or if I'd prefer this little preview to show my saved team instead... what are your opinions? Maybe an option to toggle saved team view?

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Re: Rematch 4.0

Post by Gello » September 6th, 2015, 9:00 am

Iibis wrote:Regarding PBT, from the limited experience I had with that addon was that I always managed to screw up my saved teams by having a team loaded and then just switching pets and it would somehow save that to the team without asking me. I can't remember clearly how it happened exactly, but before I had Rematch I remember clearly not being particularly happy about it. I think making any changes to a team should always require hitting a save button. I hope that doesn't change!
That auto-save/lock/whatever behavior won't be happening here. I like the principle of needing to hit save to save a team too.
Gello wrote:- If you have a team loaded with notes and preferences, when you click "Save As..." to create a brand new team, it will also save the notes and preferences to the new team.
This seems to be how it works now on the live version, or am I missing something? With that I've so far managed to create a lot of teams with wrong notes and leveling pet preferences, because I have always some team loaded from a previous tamer (or pvp team) but the new one usually doesn't have anything to do with that team or target. I don't actually know how to unload a team? I still feel like the default assumption for brand new teams should be that it's a new team so the notes from a previous aren't relevant.
This was my assumption too, and the reason 4.0 didn't save notes/preferences to the new team before that build. But there have been a number of folks that want this behavior.

For some, notes are written primarily for the target (or opponent pets the team is meant to counter). The notes only apply for the opponent pets and carrying old notes is pointless.

For others, notes are written primarily for the pets on the team. The notes have meaning regardless what target or purpose the pets are saved for. So they end up copy-pasting notes from the team they just had loaded to the team they just saved.

The "Save As..." behavior in windows is to save everything about a team, so I kinda went with the former route.

I'll see about moving the "Overwrite Notes & Preferences Too" bit from the overwrite dialog to the Save As... dialog as originally intended (or intended about a week ago lol). It was put in the overwrite dialog for future use in imported/received teams. But I think imported/received teams will always overwrite notes/preferences if the user chooses to overwrite teams.
Gello wrote:- If you save over an existing team with notes or preferences, it will prompt to ask if you want to overwrite the team with a new checkbox "Overwrite Notes & Preferences Too". It's off by default, so that when you save a howl bomb team over another target, it will preserve the original target's notes. But if you turn it on it will stay on until you check it off again.
For me it would actually be more logical that this kind of a system would be used with the "save as" and the system you described with the "save as" would be the default behaviour with "save". If I think of Windows operating system in general, "Save" normally just saves/overwrites the file without prompts while "Save as" gives more options with file name and format. :)
I worded it poorly, but it should behave as you describe. All of the above is from the "Save As..." button when you end up overwriting an existing team, and not from the "Save" button. Clicking "Save" will just outright save the team. If you change pets around it will display a simplified overwrite dialog that doens't ask about notes and preferences. And if you just change abilities and click "Save" it will save the team without any dialog.
Notes got me thinking, would anyone want to have notes saved per NPC? Like, targeting Aki the Chosen would pop up a note (before battle) if you had written one. Different users would probably find different uses for that. I was thinking that you could save some typical sequences the tamer's pets use (like, "X will always use ____ on the 2nd round") or since the multiple teams aren't yet implemented, you could save a reminder note that you have multiple teams to choose from.
An option to show before battle starts (when you target) is doable. Gráinne in the next reply would like this too. I'll see if I can get that in this weekend's build.
Gráinne wrote:2, I definitely want the (team/target) Notes window to pop up when I click on the Target, if Notes is not empty. That is, if I have saved Notes for a trainer, then I will always want them displayed when I click the trainer.
Will do!
3. Notes can too easily get lost. If I do exactly this:

a) Save a note for a team/target. All is good.
b) Click on the target. Team loads.
c) Select Set Notes. Notes are displayed, but my cursor is set to type into Notes. This is reasonable if I want to edit Notes, but I will probably be editing Notes only once. In practice I started typing "1" into the start of my notes because I didn't realise the Notes window had focus. Messy, but not terrible.
d) I see I have made a mess in the Notes window. Oops.
e) I delete or modify the text, and then Esc, expecting that to abandon my changes. However, it doesn't abandon them; it Saves them, even though I did not select Save.
When you create a note, a little note button appears to the right of the team. Like pet cards, mouseover of the note buttons will display the notes, and clicking it will display a border around the notes so it stays on screen.

The "Set Notes" menu should only be used to change the notes. But I appreciate you bringing it up. It means I need to make a way to make that notes button behavior more obvious.
Flohsakk wrote:There's one thing I think about all the time... I prompt load minimized (reminder blabla) on targets and I always wonder if I really need these pets (with pet cards) of my target there or if I'd prefer this little preview to show my saved team instead... what are your opinions? Maybe an option to toggle saved team view?
Yes I'd love to hear opinions on this.

When the window is maximized it seems viewing the opponent pets is more useful.
When the window is minimized it seems viewing the saved pets is more useful.

I've considered doing just that but it felt inconsistent. It's a little weird when pets change depending on being minimized or maximized.

And if curious, for close to a month the maximized panel displayed both saved and target pets, in many variations of this:

Image

However when a team is just loaded its pets are then displayed 3-4 times in the maximized view (target panel, loadout pets, team panel, and possibly loaded team in team panel if pulled down) which was overkill, and all those buttons in the panel made it difficult to click through (before, the whole panel was the "load" or "save" button--but there's more traditional buttons there now) so the saved team was cut and the targeting window made a bit smaller.

But now there's a minimized view so that little panel would be the only place to "preview" a team before it loads, so it's probably worth revisiting.

A toggle to switch which pets (saved vs target) to display is doable. I'd like it to be within that little panel instead of buried in options. Any opposition to making it bigger? I feel the minimized window is maybe getting a bit too big.

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Aranesh
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Re: Rematch 4.0

Post by Aranesh » September 6th, 2015, 5:07 pm

I just started testing and it seems to be very stable and functional already, awesome work.
Just one thing that keeps bugging me: in the pet list when selecting a pet (click), the popup with details becomes permanent, but there is no visual feedback in the list itself which pet is currently selected. The popup window serves that function, of course, but to me it would have a better feeling when there was a visual indication of where my current selection was. A brighter border, highlight etc. like the original UI does.

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Re: Rematch 4.0

Post by Gello » September 6th, 2015, 5:48 pm

Aranesh wrote:I just started testing and it seems to be very stable and functional already, awesome work.
Just one thing that keeps bugging me: in the pet list when selecting a pet (click), the popup with details becomes permanent, but there is no visual feedback in the list itself which pet is currently selected. The popup window serves that function, of course, but to me it would have a better feeling when there was a visual indication of where my current selection was. A brighter border, highlight etc. like the original UI does.
I'll look into this. It would definitely give it more polish. Thanks for the suggestion!

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Re: Rematch 4.0

Post by Gello » September 6th, 2015, 8:30 pm

A new build (beta-14) posted tonight.

Thanks again to Iibis for the feedback on the overwrite business. I think this new version is more intuitive (but of course welcome further feedback, from anyone too).

To summarize:
  • The "Overwrite Notes & Preferences" checkbox in the overwrite dialog has been removed.
  • In the Save As... dialog (just the red "Save As..." button and when clicking "Save" at the top in the target panel), if the loaded team has notes or preferences, the save dialog will offer a checkbox "Save Notes & Preferences Too".
  • If this is checked when the team is saved, notes and preferences from the loaded team will save to the target team (overwriting existing notes and preferences if the team is overwriting an existing team.)
  • If this is unchecked when the team is saved, or was not offered, notes and preferences will not copy over: for a new team it will have no notes and preferences, and overwriting an existing team will preserve the existing team's notes and preferences.
  • The setting of this checkbox will persist until the user changes it.
  • If a team is edited ("Edit Team" from right-click team menu) so that it replaces an existing team (name or target chosen to replace an existing one), the notes and preferences of the team being edited will always overwrite the existing team that's being overwritten.
Other behavior:
  • The red "Save" button will never offer to save notes and preferences (it's the same notes and preferences anyway).
  • When import/receive are implemented, the user will be given a choice whether to overwrite existing teams (if they exist) or to create new ones. In the former case it will always overwrite notes and preferences, so an imported/received team will always have the notes and preferences that came with the team.
I'm hoping this is going to be intuitive so a user doesn't need to know any of the above will happen. But as always let me know if this isn't the case. And especially if the addon isn't behaving as described above.

The only permutation I'm wondering about is if saving a loaded team with no notes or preferences, over an existing team that has notes and preferences, should it wipe the existing team's notes and preferences, or preserve them? I've chosen to preserve them for now. But this can change.

Also worth mentioning: this build finally restores custom sort of team tabs. Like before, if you right-click a team tab and check Custom Sort then you can rearrange the order of teams in the tab from its right-click menu. If you had a custom sort on your 3.x tabs they should return and the order restored (with new teams at the end and moved/deleted teams dropping from the order).

I've not added the drag-and-drop of teams yet. Is this something that you guys used with any frequency? It's a lot of frames/code for what it does, but I'm not opposed to adding it back if the addon seems unfinished without it. I'd like to avoid depending on right-click menus for a lot of stuff too.

TL;DR:
  • Let me know if anything seems weird or not intuitive on saving teams (new teams, over other teams, resaving existing teams, etc)
  • Custom sort of teams within a tab is back. Do you miss being able to drag and drop teams? Or is the right-click menus sufficient?

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Re: Rematch 4.0

Post by Jerebear » September 6th, 2015, 8:38 pm

Is there a way to have it pop up the minimized window when you target a saved target? I thought 3x used to do that for me. Like say I have a saved team for Ashlei and I don't currently have the minimized window up. When I target her, I would like the minimized window to come up. None of the existing options seem to do that for me.
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Re: Rematch 4.0

Post by Gello » September 6th, 2015, 9:36 pm

Jerebear wrote:Is there a way to have it pop up the minimized window when you target a saved target? I thought 3x used to do that for me. Like say I have a saved team for Ashlei and I don't currently have the minimized window up. When I target her, I would like the minimized window to come up. None of the existing options seem to do that for me.
The Prompt To Load -> With Minimized Window option will do this. But the Prompt To Load and Auto Load options are mutually exclusive.

I left out the "Show after loading" option because the maximized window too big to pop up on its own, but I can probably add a "Auto Load" -> "Show Minimized After Loading" to bring up the minimized window with auto load.

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Re: Rematch 4.0

Post by Jerebear » September 6th, 2015, 11:07 pm

Gello wrote:but I can probably add a "Auto Load" -> "Show Minimized After Loading" to bring up the minimized window with auto load.
That would be awesome thanks!
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Re: Rematch 4.0

Post by Aranesh » September 7th, 2015, 4:53 am

I agree on Jerebears wish. I was looking for the same option yesterday. Usually I play without having the pet window open (any of them, it's all closed to maximize screen space). It would be super when I fly to a trainer, click on him, that the minimized rematch window opens by itself instead of me opening the window manually => clicking on the trainer => clicking on confirmation for swapping teams.

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Re: Rematch 4.0

Post by Ironwolfe » September 7th, 2015, 5:31 am

Oooh! I'll agree to both their wish! I also try to keep the screen to a minimum; having the minimized window popup on selection of a trainer/team would be great.

I've said it in previous posts, I'll say it now, and I'll keep saying it... Thank you so much for all the hard work you've put into such a great addon... your care of it is clearly seen with all of your comments. The time and thought you give to each and every comment / wish, well, I can't think of anything that could be better.

Thank you!

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Re: Rematch 4.0

Post by Kayhos » September 7th, 2015, 12:26 pm

Hey Gello!

I think you borked the leveling team limitations with the latest build (14). I tried adding a max pet level restriction to a team and it simply never added it, I had to switch in a pet manually to get the expected pet.

I love that you can specify a min level also now! (i'll love it even more when it works :P)

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Re: Rematch 4.0

Post by Gello » September 7th, 2015, 12:56 pm

Kayhos wrote:Hey Gello!

I think you borked the leveling team limitations with the latest build (14). I tried adding a max pet level restriction to a team and it simply never added it, I had to switch in a pet manually to get the expected pet.

I love that you can specify a min level also now! (i'll love it even more when it works :P)
Woops yeah that's a bad bug. It's wiping notes too when you try to add preferences.

I'll see if I can get an update posted tonight. Thanks for pointing it out!

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Re: Rematch 4.0

Post by Gello » September 7th, 2015, 8:50 pm

New build posted tonight (beta-15) has the fix for that preferences bug and "Show After Loading" to show the minimized window when a team auto loads.

But the major component of this update is the missing pet stuff. I will be doing a lot more testing on this after import/export is done. But in the meantime feel free to cage pets and see if you can trick Rematch into not recognizing it when you learn it back.

And if you're on the PTR with relatively current pets copied over (PTR is up but the ability to copy pets has been disabled before I thought to update my pets from months ago), and you're feeling especially ambitious, try installing this build and your live savedvar to the PTR and see if the addon picks up all your pets. This tests server petID reassignments that plague some people (the goal is for Rematch users to never notice this happening). It seemed to work well tonight for all my old pets but I spent only a few minutes on the PTR.

What you should see:
- When you cage a pet that belongs to a team:
- If you have another copy of the same stats (breed, level, rarity), and that other copy isn't also on the team, it will quietly edit the team to use that other copy.
- If you don't have another copy of the same stats, it will remain greyed out in the team list. When loading the team it will report the pet missing.
- If you load a team with a greyed out pet, it will look for the highest level pet of the same species and use that if it can (with a popup--unless you've disabled it--telling you it's done this).
- When you learn the caged pet back (or another pet of the same stats), it should immediately insert itself back into the greyed-out slots it came from.

When import/receive is back (it's the next and last major component to restore to this addon), it will look for the highest level+rarity pets to drop into each slot seamlessly without any user involvement. It'll be fine to keep unknown pets greyed out until you learn them.

Things that it can't do and is really beyond the current capabilities of the addon:
- If you have two missing pets on a team and it found a substitute for one of them, you can't save the team so one remains greyed out. I recommend checking 'Don't Warn For Missing Pets' and let the addon pick a substitute until you get both pets back.
- Pet names are never tracked anywhere in the addon. If you have a 25 rare S/S rabbit named Biggles and a 25 rare S/S rabbit named Fang and you cage Biggles, Fang is going to move into Biggle's slot in all of his teams. (I'm hoping people who name most of their pets aren't caging them often.)
- If you cage a pet in the leveling queue, it will leave the queue. The addon will preserve the queue for server petID reassignments, but creating "shadow tables" of pets that quasi-exists because they've been caged is not going to happen, sorry!

And finally, as we move onward to export/import of teams, is there a preferred format for teams on forums/guides and such? I'd like to do do a "plain text" toggle for import/export of single teams, something like:

Aki the Chosen (NPC #66741)
1: Zandalari Kneebiter 1/2/1
2: Clockwork Gnome 1/1/1
3: Leveling Pet
Leveling pet preferences: 700 minimum health or any Magic & Mechanical; Mechanical damage expected
(notes for team goes here)

or would it better to spell out abilities?

Aki the Chosen (NPC #66741)
1: Zandalari Kneebiter: Bite, Black Claw, Leap
2: Clockwork Gnome: Metal Fist, Repair, Build Turret
3: Leveling Pet
Leveling pet preferences: 700 minimum health or any Magic & Mechanical; Mechanical damage expected
(notes for team goes here)

The name:npcID:pet1:ab1:ab2:ab3:pet2:etc format will still be supported. But it wouldn't be overly difficult to parse plain text like above into this format and back. I'm not looking to write a parser to interpret all ways a team can be posted. The goal is to be able to export a team to paste someplace and it'd be useful for people who don't use Rematch. And those who use Rematch could copy it directly from the forum/blog/guide and paste it into the addon (if it's in a standard format). So whatever format is chosen would likely stay that way forever. Though there may be some wiggle room like adding P/P or P/S into a pet will strip it out. (The mere idea of matching breeds to pets is so daunting I'd rather not even consider it right now, but it may be possible in the far future.)

So if there's any favorite format for posting "plain text" teams let me know. Especially if there's some aspect (aside from breeds :p) that I'm forgetting.

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Re: Rematch 4.0

Post by Aranesh » September 8th, 2015, 6:33 am

Only my personal opinion, which is a clear preference for the numbers. And that's just becauase of convenience. It is much easier to enter a team setup manually if you read " 1 1 2", because you don't need to compare all spells.
Now of course everyone who uses Rematch won't need to do this manually, but we're talking here about the possibility to post a setup in a legible way quickly onto another platform (forums etc.), and that means sharing it with people who potentially do not use Rematch.

Will test the new version in more detail tonight :-)

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Re: Rematch 4.0

Post by Kayhos » September 8th, 2015, 7:12 am

Concerning the plain text export format,

Most everyone is posting in the first format (breed pet 1/1/2) (P/P Warbot 1/2/1), but I think this is mostly as a short hand to save time.

I personally prefer the long way with the breeds as you don't have to know all the pet abilities by heart while you're ready the team setup. Also including the breeds might be a good idea because there is a bunch of PVE trainers that require specific breeds to defeat.

Gello, your addon is so ubiquitous that the way you choose to do your plain text export will probably change the way people post teams.

Concerning the speed with which you fixed the leveling preferences and notes, i'm very impressed.

Thanks again for your hard work.

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Re: Rematch 4.0

Post by Gello » September 8th, 2015, 3:54 pm

I should warn that breeds will likely not be included in an exported team. At least not initially. If they are it's even less likely an imported team would try to interpret the breed and match it to the best fit of your collected pets. Realistically, I'm waiting to see if Legions exposes anything about breeds in the API. Everything about breeds is messy. They come from multiple sources (BPBID, PetTracker, LibPetBreedInfo-1.0 or not at all), they come in various formats (P/P, 4, 4/14, unpastable-icons), they can have missing data, the data can differ depending on what version breed addon you're using, etc.

Still, I'd like the format to be ready to support breeds when it happens. And of course someone posting a team may add a "P/P" manually beside a pet. (It's difficult to find a guide that doesn't list breeds beside most pets, they're pretty important). So Rematch's role initially will be stripping those breeds out (if they exist) to pull out the name and abilities used.

And that's good 1,1,2 is the style most used. Much easier to parse! Absolutely no opposition to using that as a standard.

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FuxieDK
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Re: Rematch 4.0

Post by FuxieDK » September 9th, 2015, 12:25 am

New version, yesterday, with new UI.....

But where did "Auto add to levelling queue"-option go from config?

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