Feedback: Pet Battles in Shadowlands

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Feedback: Pet Battles in Shadowlands

Post by Quintessence » July 22nd, 2020, 5:08 pm

From the Shadowlands Beta General Discussion section on the Bnet forums: https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t ... nds/590828

For those that do not have access to Beta or the ability to respond on the Bnet forums feel free to discuss here!

Hello pet battlers!

In Shadowlands, there are some core changes to Pet Battles, and while there are many pet battle updates now available for testing, we have quite a bit more coming.

First, we have no plans to make a new pet charm currency this expansion. Polished Pet Charms will remain the standard currency to buy new pets, toys, consumables, and all of the other normally-available vendor purchases.

There are several items that are coming along for testing in this week’s build (and the next few builds) of the Shadowlands Beta:

  • New content! There will be plenty of new battle pets to capture, trainers to battle, achievements, and pets that will be rewarded from various activities.
  • New Abilities! With Shadowlands and all of the strong covenant themes, we have some plans for new abilities and mechanics to add to some of the new pets. Some may be small changes to numbers, and other changes may be big and open up new strategies or synergies.
  • Buffs! The list below of changes made to old abilities are all nerfs to existing things that have become too dominant. We also feel like there’s room to make some cool new ability combos, or redesign something that hasn’t worked so well, or buff things that are rarely used. This can be anything from some new ability mechanics, up to and potentially including redesigning or increasing the power of a species’ passive bonuses if necessary.

Previously-announced changes that are now testable in the Beta:

  • Black Claw and other flat damage taken increasing abilities.
  • Hunting Party, Flock, and other similar multi-round abilities.
  • The Shattered Defenses debuff from abilities such as Hunting Party and Flock.
  • Twilight Meteorite and other long-cooldown damage-splitting abilities.
  • The Jar of Smelly Liquid ability.

Let’s break down what actually changed to these, as some of them are complicated.

Flat damage-taken modifiers such as Black Claw now happen **after multipliers such as Shattered Defenses, or pet species strengths/weaknesses. This is a significant change to the value of flat damage abilities. Prior to this change, the value of Black Claw was increased 100% by Shattered Defenses, and if your pet was strong vs the other pet type, it would be increased even further. Flat damage modifiers now happen after all other combat calculations, which wound up being a significant damage output nerf to abilities that hit multiple times, upwards of 25-30% total damage reduction.

Hunting Party and Flock style abilities are significantly changed. First, the Shattered Defenses debuff was reduced in power from 100% to 50%. The goal of this debuff change is mostly to keep the damage of Hunting Party and Flock mostly contained within the damage the ability itself deals. Layering on other Damage over Time effects, or Curse of Doom, or similar delayed-damage sources were all getting a huge benefit from the Shattered Defenses debuff. We think that a 50% damage increase is still strong enough, but less drastic of a damage swing compared to not having Shattered Defenses at all.

The second change we made to these multi-round abilities was to increase the amount of damage they deal to offset some of the changes listed above. Abilities that dealt damage twice per round, such as Hunting Party, had their total damage dealt increased by 25%. Abilities such as Flock that did damage three times per round had their damage increased round-over-round, so to get the maximum damage output, you needed your pet to survive and still be dealing damage on the third round of the ability. Round two of Flock for example, ignoring any debuffs or multipliers, will deal 66% more damage than round one. Round three of Flock will deal 133% more damage than round 1 of Flock. The net result of all of the changes to flat damage modifiers, the Shattered Defenses debuff, and the buffs to Hunting Party or Flock style abilities is that they deal roughly 20% less damage in Shadowlands than they did previously.

Twilight Meteorite and other big damage abilities that split the damage across the team are relatively balanced when fighting multiple opponents, but if you save it until defeating 2/3 of the enemy’s team, the damage output can be devastating, especially when combined with other buffs/debuffs. We reduced the damage on these abilities by 10%, and believe that will make them strong, but less frustrating to play against.

The Jar of Smelly Liquid ability had its cooldown increased one round. This ability has been on our radar of being annoying to play against, and the strength of the ability combined with a speed and damage dealt debuff on the target felt too strong for a cooldown of only one round.

A couple of other changes in Shadowlands:

  • Murkalot’s Righteous Inspiration ability has been on the forefront of PvP strategies for a while, and is very strong, and unique to only this pet. The current change we have in Shadowlands is that the ability starts on cooldown when the pet battle begins, so you will have to wait 8 rounds to be able to use it against your opponent.
  • Almost all healing abilities have had a small variance applied to them of +/- 10% when you use it. Healing Wave might say it heals your target for 100, but actually heal for between 90 and 110. This also applied to some healing abilities like Siphon Life, where it should heal for a fixed amount based on damage dealt, but still had a variance applied on it. All healing abilities have been tuned so that having any variation in the healing amount makes sense, and we’ve removed the variance if it did not.

Finally, we’re considering the viability of older pet battle content after these changes. Some of the changes we’re making could make older battles or achievements much too difficult to complete. We really like how it feels to have so much pet battle content accessible to players who are at all points on the pet battle journey, whether they’re just getting started or have hundreds of max-level pets.

In Shadowlands, we still expect pet battlers to be able to complete older content with a current slate of battle pets, so we’re looking forward to your feedback. We’re confident that we can adjust tuning where necessary.

Thank you!
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Re: Feedback: Pet Battles in Shadowlands

Post by Gello » July 23rd, 2020, 3:14 am

I'm curious if there's any in-game API changes to the pet battle system. (Mostly if breeds are finally exposed to the in-game API like they are to the web API).

I don't have access yet. Can one of you with beta access and a battle pet on a beta server copy and paste this to chat from the beta:

Code: Select all

/run local c=0 for k,v in pairs(C_PetJournal) do c=c+1 end print(c,"functions") c=#({C_PetJournal.GetPetInfoByIndex(1)}) print(c,"returns")
On retail servers it says:
66 functions
18 returns

Thanks!

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Re: Feedback: Pet Battles in Shadowlands

Post by Jerebear » July 23rd, 2020, 9:03 am

One of my concerns is if they nerf things like black claw, they shouldn't leave things like shell shield and shell armor the same. They are meant to be counters to each other, so if you leave one before modifiers and move the other side to after, it disproportionately makes shields better.

That said, I don't feel like the current black claw was really a problem.

But I don't have beta access so I can neither test nor give feedback.
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Re: Feedback: Pet Battles in Shadowlands

Post by Paladance » July 25th, 2020, 8:25 am

Jerebear wrote:
July 23rd, 2020, 9:03 am
One of my concerns is if they nerf things like black claw, they shouldn't leave things like shell shield and shell armor the same. They are meant to be counters to each other, so if you leave one before modifiers and move the other side to after, it disproportionately makes shields better.

That said, I don't feel like the current black claw was really a problem.
And it doesn't actually change much (though still enough to butterfly effect into a lot to do), besides being slightly easier to calculate in the background.

I've been assuming both breaches and shields are the same mechanic (they also said "modifiers") and such both should be affected, just the latter is undocumented. Only the testers can tell though.

I was also able to post in the EU thread despite no beta, is it different for NA? (Don't put the testers off track, kids)
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Re: Feedback: Pet Battles in Shadowlands

Post by Flohsakk » July 26th, 2020, 4:36 am

@Gello
Got the exact same values on Beta

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Re: Feedback: Pet Battles in Shadowlands

Post by Gello » July 26th, 2020, 1:59 pm

Thanks for checking, Flohsakk.

If both numbers are the same, that's a compelling case that there's no real API changes for battle pets, so no new functionality outside new pets/abilities.

Each expansion I pray for them to expose pet breeds with the in-game API like they do for the web API. Ah well.

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Re: Feedback: Pet Battles in Shadowlands

Post by Flohsakk » July 27th, 2020, 5:25 pm

Yeah everything feels comfident, no surprises so far. Was curious about the Mind Games (Addius the Tormentor pet battle) adding some sort of new frame to chose the penalty, but they simply replace the pet abilities until we activate one of them.

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Re: Feedback: Pet Battles in Shadowlands

Post by Flohsakk » July 27th, 2020, 5:38 pm

Does anyone know a script to start/stop reporting SpelIDs of Spells I cast in the "chat"? There are tons of addons that add timers, ticks, icons, textures etc. but usually no one adds SpellIDs or they are not Beta ready :-\

There is an object to click and that starts a cast and I want to know if the SpellIDs are different for various buffs I can use before clicking the item (there are many spells with similar names in the data that seem to be related)

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Re: Feedback: Pet Battles in Shadowlands

Post by Gello » July 27th, 2020, 10:55 pm

I assume you mean player spells and not pet abilities. COMBAT_LOG_EVENT_UNFILTERED would be a more robust event, but this should suffice:

Code: Select all

/run local f=SfC or CreateFrame("Frame","SfC") f:SetScript("OnEvent",function(_,_,u,_,_,id) if u=="player" then print("Spell id:",id) end end) f:RegisterEvent("UNIT_SPELLCAST_SENT")

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Re: Feedback: Pet Battles in Shadowlands

Post by Flohsakk » July 27th, 2020, 11:40 pm

Will try, thank you. But I don't think it's going to combat log, because I tried to get it into one and it was empty or didn't include it when I pulled a mob on purpose while clicking the object.

Damn when I see it work while getting on my mount I was hoping, unfortunately it does not react.

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