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Stat scaling / How does HP, Speed, Power contribute

Discuss pet battles, strategy and theorycrafting.
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Essmene
 
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Stat scaling / How does HP, Speed, Power contribute

Postby Essmene » November 21st, 2012, 7:28 am

Hi,

So far I have not found a research about the three basic stats and their contribution to a successful pet fight.

My current impression is that we belief Power >> all.

Power
Poofah wrote:
At the moment I cannot tell how speed and power affect abilities. Are heals based on power/level or base HP or ??


Does speed contribute to anything else than just going first?


Speed only contributes to going first, as far as I know. I think that speed *might* contribute to dodge chance, but I don't have any data to back that up.

Power contributes to damage/heals/shields, as follows:

Damage = BaseDamage + ( Power * BaseDamage / 20 )

BaseDamage is the number that appears in the ability's tooltip for a 'level 0' pet, ie a greyed-out pet in your pet journal. This is also the number that appears in the ability's tooltip on Wowhead or competitor.com. For example, a basic attack such as Punch/Breath/Claw has a BaseDamage of 20. Thus Punch's damage is 20 + (Power * 1). For an ability such as Lift-Off, it would be 35 + (Power * 1.75). This is average damage: there's a small +/- added on.

Heals and shields work the same. For this reason I think power is the best stat for a healing/life leeching pet.


Hit Points
I think hit point to have a factor - like a tank. Tanks can soak more damage, survive longer and thus have mor time to use their abilities.
Also wish is a spell that directly scales with HP.

Speed
Going first decides mainly on towi things / you get a free attack if you kill stuff because you were going first and if the abilities favor going first. like Quills giving another attack for going first.

Also someone mentioned that the chance to dodge could be altered by the speed stat.


If blizzard did their job right, I don't think there will be an easy answer like Power > rest. There are currently no target dummies out there that make research on these thing easy. How are the chances for Attack, miss, dodge?

I think we need tools. Tools to record fights and analyse this. We might need simulations to actually find out who is better off in pet battle, so we can finally answer which breed is the best type for a species or for a specific battle.

It would be great if there was some data collected to "prove" the assumptions.

edit:
Also it would be interesting to know:
  • Hit/miss ratio of apopcalypse, Nocturnal strike, ...
  • chance to hit, miss, block, dodge, crit - against levels, stat contributors

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Hellomynameis
 
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Re: Stat scaling / How does HP, Speed, Power contribute

Postby Hellomynameis » November 21st, 2012, 12:33 pm

Essmene wrote:Also it would be interesting to know:
  • Hit/miss ratio of apopcalypse, Nocturnal strike, ...
  • chance to hit, miss, block, dodge, crit - against levels, stat contributors

http://www.wowdb.com/pet-abilities has accuracy for each spell, however, I have noticed 100% hit chance spells do miss if the enemy you try to hit are higher level.

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Essmene
 
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Re: Stat scaling / How does HP, Speed, Power contribute

Postby Essmene » November 21st, 2012, 12:47 pm

Hellomynameis wrote:
Essmene wrote:Also it would be interesting to know:
  • Hit/miss ratio of apopcalypse, Nocturnal strike, ...
  • chance to hit, miss, block, dodge, crit - against levels, stat contributors

http://www.wowdb.com/pet-abilities has accuracy for each spell, however, I have noticed 100% hit chance spells do miss if the enemy you try to hit are higher level.

Which will be relevant if you start leveling. e.g. do level differences impose a 5% accuracy malus?

How does "increases chance to hit by 100%" work? If you have 100% hit chance 200% won't mean a thing.If you got 80% is the modified 90% or 180%?

If you have 100% accuracy and your enemy got 20% dodge and 20% block will attacks miss 40% of the time and success 60% of the time. Or is it a two way roll with 20% dodge 80% success and 20% block and 80% success resulting in 64% success?

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Poofah
 
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Re: Stat scaling / How does HP, Speed, Power contribute

Postby Poofah » November 21st, 2012, 2:30 pm

Hellomynameis wrote:
Essmene wrote:Also it would be interesting to know:
  • Hit/miss ratio of apopcalypse, Nocturnal strike, ...
  • chance to hit, miss, block, dodge, crit - against levels, stat contributors

http://www.wowdb.com/pet-abilities has accuracy for each spell, however, I have noticed 100% hit chance spells do miss if the enemy you try to hit are higher level.


That's very interesting. I'm surprised at the 80% accuracy on Lift-Off/Burrow/etc., those feel like they miss a lot more often than that. Also the total expected damage is pretty high at 80% hit chance: 1.75*0.8, or 1.4 times as much as a basic attack.

Most of the other abilities are pretty well balanced: e.g. Tail Slap and Expunge do 1.25x as much damage as a basic attack but have 80% hit chance; Cataclysm/Instability is 2.25x but only 50% hit chance.

Hit Points
I think hit point to have a factor - like a tank. Tanks can soak more damage, survive longer and thus have more time to use their abilities.
Also wish is a spell that directly scales with HP.


Wish is excellent due to this, since Crawdad is a breed 6 with lots of health.

In general, pet fights seem to be balanced around the assumption that a pet will last 5 turns. My evidence comes from two sources: 1) the stat system values 1 power the same as 5 health (you can see that from Warla's datamined formulas), and 2) if you take an 'average' pet (breedID 3 with evenly spread base stats: 1481 health/276 power/276 speed), which deals (20+276)*1=296 damage with a basic attack (Punch/Breath/etc.), then you can see that 1481/296 = 5, meaning an average pet needs exactly 5 turns to kill another average pet.

Health is static, whereas power contributes every time you successfully use a damaging or healing/shielding move. That is to say: power scales with the number of turns in the fight. In the case of just using basic attacks, the break-even point is 5 turns: if the fight lasts less than 5 turns, then health is a better investment; if it's more than 5, then power is the better deal. Longer fights typically happen when heals are involved, which is why power is such a great stat for a healing pet (with Wish being an exception, since it's based on health and not power).

In the case of using more than just basic attacks (which is always), finding the break-even point is slightly harder. You need to consider how much of your power you use with each move. I like to call this the coefficient: it's the base damage of the move divided by 20 (see my snippet that's quoted in the OP). Basic attacks have a coefficient of 1 -- they use 1x of your power each time you successfully use the move. Heals tend to be stronger: Healing Wave, for example, has a coefficient of 1.5. When you use Healing Wave, you've applied 1.5x of your power. So for example, if you use Healing Wave twice and also land 2 basic attacks, you've taken 4 moves but you've applied 5x of your power. This is the break-even point in this situation: after this point, power is better than health. If you used a different sequence of moves, or if your opponent negated any of those moves, then the break-even point would change. For this reason, you can't accurately predict the break-even point ahead of time. However, you can make pretty good guesses: a crab or frog is almost certainly going to live long enough to favor power. In fact, it's hard to find a situation where health is favored, because we tend to choose movesets with high coefficients, and this means that the break-even point happens earlier than 5 turns most of the time.

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Essmene
 
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Re: Stat scaling / How does HP, Speed, Power contribute

Postby Essmene » November 23rd, 2012, 8:00 am

yes, that makes sense.

How about attack, dodge, miss parry?

I think we need some addon loggging pet battles and some parser to generate sufficient data. E.g. a 5% miss chance in a 5 round fight does not happen often. Then we would need some kind of log parser similar to world of logs.

(or a pet target dummy).

Against famer nish I also noted that shield, that should absorb 70 damage did block the elemental dot ticking for 75 damage.

Also with those logs it might be easier to spot and report bugs.


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