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Research about Experience / or how to powerlevel

Discuss pet battles, strategy and theorycrafting.
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Essmene
 
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Research about Experience / or how to powerlevel

Postby Essmene » November 19th, 2012, 1:58 pm

Hi,

I am wondering how Experience is calculated in pet battles. So I started a spread sheet and gathered information, but my calculations do not currently have a somewhat high deviation.

Observations
Experience granted
  1. is based on the level difference Fighting opponents higher than its own level grants a pet more experience / enemies of lower level grants significantly less experience
  2. takes into account the number of pets and alive involved Using a single pet grants this pet more XP, than using two pets over using three pets
  3. does not take opponents quality into account A fight with a level 8 Ravassaur Hatchling and a level 24 crawdad against level 22 opponents with uncommon, common, poor and common, common, poor yielded the same amount of experience for both
  4. better dead than alive Taming a pet during a fight will reduce the amount of experience gained over killing it.

Misconceptions
  • Level 25 pets do not eat XPI have tested this against level 22 creatures using a level 24 crawdad and a level 25 crab. Alone the Crab got 248 XP. With the Crab it got 125 XP. So the level 25 pet "ate" 125 XP.
  • there is an experience cap With my current calculations I cannot see this experience cap. But there seems to be a experience plateau at fighting opponents 16 levels above your own.

My Experience theory:
  • the experience gained is not affected by level, type or quality of team pets / only by the amount of alive pets that took part / Reducing the amount of gained XP by 50% for two pets and by 66% for 3 pets
  • The enemy team pets level is the primary contributor to the experience distributed
So in my list I note down the level of my own pets, the attacking teams level and the experience gained (which does show now many pets took part in the fight if they are below 25). Then I note the level difference between each pet and the opponent team and multiply the experience gained by the number of the pets taking part.

For example My team is a level 1 and level 24 pet against level 22 creatures. After the fight the level 1 pet gained 365 XP and 24 108. If the level 1 had fought alone it should have gotten 365x2 = 730 XP for a +21 level difference and the 24 216 for being 2 levels above.

So i recorded relative level and the experience gained and averaged the results as can be seen below

Relative level average deviation
24 0 0
23 0 0
22 735 0
21 730 0
20 806 6
19 807 0
18 842 15
17 822 0
16 867 21
15 894 0
14 880 0
13 0 0
12 0 0
11 0 0
10 0 0
9 0 0
8 0 0
7 0 0
6 0 0
5 0 0
4 0 0
3 0 0
2 0 0
1 425 10
0 0 0
-1 304 26
-2 223 6
-3 0 0

For a start these calculations work ok. Yet I am not happy that the experience does differ for reasons I cannot explain.

Results for Powerleveling
You have a flock of creatures way below the level (+10 relative level) you can safely kill. For powerleveling purposes you should take two low level pets and a high level killer to maximize the experience gained. If you powerlevel a single pet that pet will get a 50% reduction - two pets get a 66% reduction, but since both gain experience you can say instead of loosing 50% experience you only loose 33%.

Results for tough near level
If you have pets within 2-5 relative levels, that can survive and finish off a random opponent the tactic is to finish off the attacking team with your high level pet and letting the pet die and finish the team off with the survivors. Thus the high level pet will not soak up experience - it will get a lot less experience - and will not impose a 50% or 66% experience penalty on your team.
My spreadsheets in openoffice calc and exported as pdf:
https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B-ghAK ... mpyNGREY28
https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B-ghAK ... 1lMb19WMEE

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Poofah
 
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Re: Research about Experience / or how to powerlevel

Postby Poofah » November 19th, 2012, 2:34 pm

Thanks for this! I've been wondering how this is calculated as well. I found some info on wowwiki (search for 'calculating experience', it's far down the page). It seems like that info is mostly from the beta so I'm not sure if it's accurate any more: it mostly seems to agree with your observations, except for the part about killing and capturing being the same. But it does say that your pet's current level impacts the XP reward, in addition to the level difference, and that would explain some of your variation.

I know that master tamers get a fairly big multiplier to the XP gain, something like 3.5x.

The easiest way I've found to prevent your high level pet from soaking up XP is to deal the killing blow with Explode.

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Re: Research about Experience / or how to powerlevel

Postby Sesamee » November 19th, 2012, 6:54 pm

My power level plan is simple. For lvl one pets take them to Org and get them to lvl 3 or 4 on the org critters. Take them to the surrounding zones till 10. You should only have to do 2-3 battles per level. Once they're 10 power level them on Farmer Nishi until 25. Easy peasy. A pet can go from 1-25 in about 45m.

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Ryazan
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Re: Research about Experience / or how to powerlevel

Postby Ryazan » November 20th, 2012, 12:46 am

Sesamee wrote:Once they're 10 power level them on Farmer Nishi until 25.

Mmm, what do you mean by that? Isn't the daily quest XP rewarded only once or is Nishi bugged in some way?
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Re: Research about Experience / or how to powerlevel

Postby Sesamee » November 20th, 2012, 2:10 am

Farmer Nishi's pets are really easy to beat with a Mirror Strider to take out the two elementals, let it die to the beast, bring in a Zeppelin to explode killing itself and the beast giving all the xp to the lowbie. Just let the lowbie go for the first round the swap it with the Strider. You abandon the quest after the win and rinse and repeat.

I've tried other combinations but you really need a bursty aquatic or else the elementals just heal themselves over and over and the fight takes forever. And that beast hits hard so a mechanical helps. I do one missle to make sure the health is low enough to be killed with the following explode. And make sure you keep track of burrow so you don't explode when he burrows. The burrow usually kills the Strider so your'e safe but if it misses then it can take another round or three to kill which means burrow will be up for when you bring in the Zeppellin. Just keep that in mind!

You can battle all the Pandaria trainer's repeatedly so long as you don't turn the daily quest in. Farmer Nishi is just so easy to level lowbies with my set up. You can only turn the quest in and get the bag once though which is why it's not an exploit, just a fast way to get xp.

With the other trainers sometimes I'll abandon the quest to refight them and try out different pet's skills and synergies between pets. Like that goat in Kun Lai hits so hard so I like to put a variety of pets up against him and see who can take a hit vs burst him down fast. Same with the Moth in Krasarang Wilds. It's like extra practice!

Oh and you can actually start them at lvl 6-7 on Nishi. So long as they have about 400ish health they should be fine

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Hellomynameis
 
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Re: Research about Experience / or how to powerlevel

Postby Hellomynameis » November 20th, 2012, 2:50 am

Sesamee wrote:You abandon the quest after the win and rinse and repeat.

Awesome! I never thought of doing that :D

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Ryazan
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Re: Research about Experience / or how to powerlevel

Postby Ryazan » November 20th, 2012, 4:00 am

Ahaa, didn't realize the abandon trick... However, I'm fairly sure it's only matter of time when Blizzard will fix this "creative use of game mechanics" since I don't think they've intended to grind exp by abandoning the quest etc. even if you can get the reward only once...

I've been using Emperor Crab on Nishi. Takes a bit to finish of elementals with Whirlpoorl and Surge but he can pretty much solo all three of her pets with ease.

---------------------------

I've actually run through all the Pandaria tamers with the tactic "Use two 25 pets to beat most of the tamers pets and finish off the last one with a lowbie" so I've figured out pretty much working combos for all of them. Of course there is some luck involved with misses etc. but 80% of the time the following works since the tamers' pets tend to be pretty predictable. Unfortunately, my way doesn't work that well with really lowbie pets due to them needing to finish off the tamer's last pet one way or another.

  • Jade Forest:

      My setup: Personal World Destroyer (PWD) - Nether Faerie Dragon (NFD) - Pet to be leveled

      Kill order: Snake > Shrine Fly > Turquoise Turtle

      Pretty straightforward except for the turtle. PWD will kill the snake in three rounds (Metal Fist, Supercharge, Metal Fist) and then depending on luck he will also either finish the fly too or at least should get it below 50% of HP. NFD will usually end the fly fast. Now comes the tricky part (and sometimes VERY frustrating part), you need to balance with turtle's heals and headbutts so you can get him as low as possible before you let your NFD die (he could kill the turtle with ease). Thanks to the turtle's shield, you probably can't kill the if unless your pet lacks the damage or if you pet is too low and he can't land hits. Oh, and don't use Moonfire or turtle will heal a lot more.
  • Valley of Four Winds:

      My setup: Pet to be leveled - Emperor Crab - Mechanical Pandaren Dragonling (MPD)

      Kill order: Indifferent

      Like stated above, Emperor Crab can beat all three but only the elementals are needed and a bit softening to the worm. MPD will go kablooey on the worm. Just need to remember to start with pet you are leveling.
  • Krasarang Wilds:

      My setup: Personal World Destroyer (PWD) - Nether Faerie Dragon (NFD) - Pet to be leveled

      Kill order: Jungle Grub - Luyu Moth - Spiny Terrapin

      I hate this fight, sometimes it's very easy and sometimes you want to pull your hair out - it all depends on misses. You will need four rounds to kill the grub unless no crits (Fist, Super Charge, Fist, Fist). PWD has to survive so it can soak the sleep from the moth, otherwise things get a lot harder. In optimal case PWD gets 2-3 hits to the moth before it dies but most of the time only one. With NFD, don't open with Evasion, instead get the Moth below 50% or you'll get owned by sleep. In most cases you can kill the moth without even using Evasion. Last part comes down to nuking the Terrapin, if your NFD has Evasion up in the start, you should be on the easy street of getting him low enough for your lowbie to snuff him out.
  • Kun-Lai Summit:

      My setup: Nether Faerie Dragon (NFD) - Flayer Youngling - Pet to be leveled

      Kill order: Szechuan Chicken - Tolai Hare - Summit Kid

      Another somewhat easy fight with - if not crucial misses... The Chicken is very predictable so start with Moonfire and Evasion his Liftoff. Then few Arcane Blasts will kill him. When going against the Hare, same applies: Moonfire then Evasion on the Burrow. Up to this point things go like on rail, but after this the Hare will rip your NFD a new one with Flurry. No fear, Flayer will finish the wabbit quickly and then start pounding the Kid. Proper use of Reflection will cause you actually to stop doing damage to the goat so you won't kill him. :)
  • Townlong Steppes:

      My setup: Nether Faerie Dragon (NFD) - Flayer Youngling - Pet to be leveled

      Kill order: Frigid Frostling - Rapana Whelk - Aqua Strider

      Go go NFD again, Evasion elemental's Nova and Howling Blast and then Moonfire & Arcane Blast him to death. The snail usually starts off with the debuff so save the Evasion for Dive. Sometimes NFD can kill two first pets but usually Flayer has to finish the snail off. When going against the Strider you can reflect the pump in order to survive a bit longer, but this isn't usually needed if all goes well. The sleep usually isn't a problem either since Flayer can easily soak up one Pump.
  • Dread Wastes

      My setup: Nether Faerie Dragon (NFD) - Mechanical Pandaren Dragonling (MPD) - Pet to be leveled

      Kill order: Grinder - Emperor Crab - Clouded Hedgehog

      Start with Evasion (notice the pattern yet? :) to dodge Duststorm and Rupture then MF and AB the pet. Continue to crab but save your Evasion for the first Whirlpool. Also, don't use/refresh Moonfire on the crab since it will increase his heals. NFD can kill the crab but if not, MPD will finish him and then nuke the Hedgehog. Decoy is advised to use since the hedgehog can pack a punch. Explode to win but remember to use your noobie too before it.
  • Vale of Eternal Blossom

      My setup: Pandaren Monk - Flayer Youngling - Pet to be leveled

      Kill order: Wild Golden Hatchling - Red Cricket - Golden Civet

      The second fight where NFD isn't needed. :o Anyhow, take the dragon out with Focus Chi, Fury of 1000 Fists and Jab. Now depending on how the Scitter will land, you can snatch few hits to the Cricket. Once I've managed to kill both pets with Monk but usually Flayer has to finish the Cricket. When going against the Civet, just make sure your flayer doesn't have the damage taken debuff when the Dive hits or it's over. Reflections helps with it but just remember not to reflect the first part of the Dive (going under) since I've managed to turn my flayer into god mod by this (he dived too but never came up BUT was still able to attack from the underground when avoiding all incoming attacks).

Bear with me if all the races of the tamers' pets aren't correct. :)

As you can see, I've use few "core" pets which I use very often The Nether Faerie Dragon being the most common by far thus making my tactics a bit tied to the certain pets. However, the list isn't that long:

  • Nether Faerie Dragon (power breed)
  • Flayer Youngling
  • Personal World Destroyer
  • Mechanical Pandaren Dragonling
  • Pandaren Monk (can be replace too if the pet can solo the Hatchling)
  • Emperor Crab (can be replaced with proper aquatic)
I'd say top three or four are somewhat mandatory for my tactics but rest two can be replaced.

Anyhow, that was my few cents for powerleveling a pet - or hopefully it gave some new ideas to fight Pandaren tamers. Thanks if someone was arsed to read this Wall of Text. :P
Last edited by Ryazan on November 21st, 2012, 1:21 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Delinda
 
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Re: Research about Experience / or how to powerlevel

Postby Delinda » November 20th, 2012, 5:28 am

The trick with abandoning daily doesn't work anymore. It just doesn't abandon after it's done. I powerlevel my pets in the Valley of Four Winds using 2 lizards and the pet I'm currently leveling. Up to level 22 I start the fight with the pet I level and then finish off the others with one of the lizards. This way I don't need to heal the pets too often. Some pets (beasts or pets with beast abilities) can relatively easily take out all 3 critters by themselves starting at level 22, my lizards serve only as emergency backup.

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Ryazan
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Re: Research about Experience / or how to powerlevel

Postby Ryazan » November 20th, 2012, 6:10 am

Delinda wrote:The trick with abandoning daily doesn't work anymore. It just doesn't abandon after it's done.

When has this changed? Because I've noticed that you can't abandon the quest (button is grayed out) from few certain tamers but not from all. So have you noticed this like within few days?
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Mairin
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Re: Research about Experience / or how to powerlevel

Postby Mairin » November 20th, 2012, 6:16 am

Ryazan wrote:I've been using Emperor Crab on Nishi. Takes a bit to finish of elementals with Whirlpoorl and Surge but he can pretty much solo all three of her pets with ease.

The flayer youngling can solo them all too and depending on your luck actually finish all 3 fights with near full health.
Image

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Essmene
 
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Re: Research about Experience / or how to powerlevel

Postby Essmene » November 20th, 2012, 6:29 am

Ryazan wrote:I've actually run through all the Pandaria tamers with the tactic "Use two 25 pets to beat most of the tamers pets and finish off the last one with a lowbie" so I've figured out pretty much working combos for all of them. [...]

Wow thank you for this masterpiece.

I have been looking for a rare stunted-shardhorn in Scholozar Basin and noticed that Magical Crawdad (22+-) rules the area. There are no flying pets and his Hot And Wish heal all incoming damage. So I can level two pets at once. First fight from 1-3, second 3-5 third 5-7. I did the same in Nagrand for Clefthoof Runt but the experience gained is smaller. Deepholm can work, but it has flying pets that can kill him if you are unlucky.

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Re: Research about Experience / or how to powerlevel

Postby Delinda » November 20th, 2012, 7:17 am

Ryazan wrote:
Delinda wrote:The trick with abandoning daily doesn't work anymore. It just doesn't abandon after it's done.

When has this changed? Because I've noticed that you can't abandon the quest (button is grayed out) from few certain tamers but not from all. So have you noticed this like within few days?

I noticed this after the latest maintainance, I leveled a couple of pets to 25 on Tuesday and the next day this wasn't an option anymore. Maybe, it's a bug (I used this technique on Nishi) and it works with other tamers in Pandaria or other continents.

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Re: Research about Experience / or how to powerlevel

Postby Moozipan » November 20th, 2012, 7:55 am

It was working fine for me last night. Also, you can abandon when the fit starts, you don't have to wait until the end.

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Re: Research about Experience / or how to powerlevel

Postby Delinda » November 20th, 2012, 10:03 am

Moozipan wrote:It was working fine for me last night. Also, you can abandon when the fit starts, you don't have to wait until the end.

Yep, thanks. This worked for me. Damn, the beast hits like a truck. I'm leveling now elemental spiders, it's great that they can leech life.

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Re: Research about Experience / or how to powerlevel

Postby Sesamee » November 20th, 2012, 11:57 am

Ahaa, didn't realize the abandon trick... However, I'm fairly sure it's only matter of time when Blizzard will fix this "creative use of game mechanics" since I don't think they've intended to grind exp by abandoning the quest etc. even if you can get the reward only once...


Well I see nothing wrong in doing it. A grind is a grind regardless of how you do it. You're just standing in the same spot battling the same thing over and over as opposed to endlessly battling the same Grasshopper/Malayan Quillrat/Bandicoon or Golden Civet/Golden Civet Kitten/Yellow Bellied Bullfrog combo over and over again. The trainer fights just take longer than wild mob fights and are arguably more difficult.

I'm not convinced even that it's not intended. I just hope they don't change it because, like I mentioned previously, I also use this technique to test out new pets and skills etc. It's quite helpful!

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Essmene
 
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Re: Research about Experience / or how to powerlevel

Postby Essmene » November 20th, 2012, 2:49 pm

i can't get this quest abondoning thing to work. When are you supposed to abondon the quest?

Edit:
I checked 3 trainers and found some can be abondoned where others cannot
Hellfire Trainer cannot be abondoned
Elena Flutterfly cannot be abondoned
all outland tamers i tried i could not abondon if i was in a pet combat


Farmer Nishi can be abondoned
Last edited by Essmene on November 20th, 2012, 8:39 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Research about Experience / or how to powerlevel

Postby Delinda » November 20th, 2012, 4:13 pm

Essmene wrote:i can't get this quest abondoning thing to work. When are you supposed to abondon the quest?

I abandoned it during the fight, after the fight. Either way it did abandon.
I found an interesting combo for Nishi - Strider (aquatic), a critter with apocalypse ability (a bug or a cocroach) and the leveled pet. The trick is to get to the beast when there are 2-3 turns left for the apocalypse to kick in. This leveling works with pet over lvl 10, younger pets are too fragile - they die after the Sunflower uses its ability that adds health and damages all three pets.

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Jone
 
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Re: Research about Experience / or how to powerlevel

Postby Jone » November 20th, 2012, 10:30 pm

Ryazan, I read it all, it's a neat guide. It's certainly convinced me that the NFD is my next level 25, so thanks!

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Essmene
 
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Re: Research about Experience / or how to powerlevel

Postby Essmene » November 21st, 2012, 11:15 am

I just used farmer Nish leveling, leveling two pets at a time and noting down the pet level and XP gained. That experience is unmodified, thus should be twice XP if those pets were alone and removing the pet trainer factor 3.5 should be divided by that factor.

It seems on the same level, they higher the percentage is, the more XP is gained / which is somewhat weird. A level 22 and 90% XP gains more XP than if he had 10%. Next it seems that my uncommon Pet Bombling did gain less XP than his rare companions.

level | Experience gained
11 1522
12
13 1483
14 1452
15 1413 1421
16 1366 1374
17 1320
18
19 1176
20 1100 1107
21 1025
22 913 919 941 941
23 801 806 825 830 | 783 792 796
24 712 733 733 703 | 655


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