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5.2 PTR: Massive changes inbound for fan favorites

Discuss pet battles, strategy and theorycrafting.
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Maievshadow
 
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Re: 5.2 PTR: Massive changes inbound for fan favorites

Postby Maievshadow » January 31st, 2013, 10:30 pm

Amists all the doom and gloom, its worth Noting that Kun-Lai Runt just got a MAJOR buff. Since Frost Shock is now a proper "chill" you can now get a Frost Shock, Deep Freeze and Take Down combo off for massive damage.

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Jrshoe
 
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Re: 5.2 PTR: Massive changes inbound for fan favorites

Postby Jrshoe » February 1st, 2013, 1:34 am

Maievshadow wrote:Amists all the doom and gloom, its worth Noting that Kun-Lai Runt just got a MAJOR buff. Since Frost Shock is now a proper "chill" you can now get a Frost Shock, Deep Freeze and Take Down combo off for massive damage.


You read that very incorrectly. The effect is the same as it was before, only the debuff is not a 4 round duration. The target is not chilled in terms of having the effect "Chilled", which would increase damage from moves such as Deep Freeze, but rather the target is slowed by a chilling effect, such as when a mage casts Frostbolt.

The attack reads now, as follows.

"Chills the target, dealing 180 Elemental damage and reducing their speed by 25% for 2 rounds."

So, it is a nerf, not a buff.

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Myrrmi
 
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Re: 5.2 PTR: Massive changes inbound for fan favorites

Postby Myrrmi » February 1st, 2013, 5:25 am

Catalytic wrote:
Catalytic wrote:Is anyone actually on the PTR? If so, can anyone share how much XP a pet battle (PvE) is giving to under 90s?


OK, replying to myself, finally got enough of the PTR client DL'd to log on.

Level 85, full rested, using 3 level 1 cats against level one wild pet is netting 49,448xp per battle.

Using two level 25 pets versus a 25 wild team gives 52,050xp (also on that rested 85)

So roughly 265 pet battles from 85 to 86...dang, I could have leveled all my alts on pet battles by now if it had been this way all along! :lol:

Adding to this as I get more on the PTR: Level 87 full rested gets 92,150xp for a level 25 battle.

Hmm... dat lvl87 alt of mine ona pve server... guess how I'll be levelling her? :D

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Gilneas
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Re: 5.2 PTR: Massive changes inbound for fan favorites

Postby Gilneas » February 1st, 2013, 11:41 pm

Jrshoe wrote:
Maievshadow wrote:Amists all the doom and gloom, its worth Noting that Kun-Lai Runt just got a MAJOR buff. Since Frost Shock is now a proper "chill" you can now get a Frost Shock, Deep Freeze and Take Down combo off for massive damage.


You read that very incorrectly. The effect is the same as it was before, only the debuff is not a 4 round duration. The target is not chilled in terms of having the effect "Chilled", which would increase damage from moves such as Deep Freeze, but rather the target is slowed by a chilling effect, such as when a mage casts Frostbolt.

The attack reads now, as follows.

"Chills the target, dealing 180 Elemental damage and reducing their speed by 25% for 2 rounds."

So, it is a nerf, not a buff.


No, I'm pretty sure its partially a fix so that it is applying the chilled effect too, as that is the only reason to reduce the number of rounds. Pretty much everything that's just a 25% speed reduction is for 4 rounds. The only reason to single this specific one out is because it is different (has another benefit, that being the chill effect).

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Re: 5.2 PTR: Massive changes inbound for fan favorites

Postby Adorich » February 2nd, 2013, 3:16 pm

I'm worried about the Flayer Youngling.

The new Deflection works in it's nerfed form, but Focus isn't doing anything. I thought they nerfed Triple Snap, but after 20 or so battles Focus+Triple Snap is the same as Triple Snap alone.

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Xiie
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Re: 5.2 PTR: Massive changes inbound for fan favorites

Postby Xiie » February 2nd, 2013, 6:45 pm

Catalytic wrote:So roughly 265 pet battles from 85 to 86...dang

Thanks very much for the info!

I'm so glad I left the level grinding for later. Can't wait for 5.2's pet battle changes.

I'm also happy about the FFF and Flayer nerfs. Seeing the same pet over and over is so boring!

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Tahsfenz
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Re: 5.2 PTR: Massive changes inbound for fan favorites

Postby Tahsfenz » February 2nd, 2013, 6:49 pm

Xiie wrote:
Catalytic wrote:So roughly 265 pet battles from 85 to 86...dang

Thanks very much for the info!

I'm so glad I left the level grinding for later. Can't wait for 5.2's pet battle changes.


Agreed. Never been a fan of doing the same zone over and over. At least in cata you had 2 starter zones. Gives me more incentive to level my pets.
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Maievshadow
 
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Re: 5.2 PTR: Massive changes inbound for fan favorites

Postby Maievshadow » February 2nd, 2013, 10:47 pm

No, I'm pretty sure its partially a fix so that it is applying the chilled effect too, as that is the only reason to reduce the number of rounds. Pretty much everything that's just a 25% speed reduction is for 4 rounds. The only reason to single this specific one out is because it is different (has another benefit, that being the chill effect).


Thats what i assumed too, i cant see why they would nerf this specific ability without nerfing other speed slows unless it would also count as chilled.

Adorich wrote:I'm worried about the Flayer Youngling.

The new Deflection works in it's nerfed form, but Focus isn't doing anything. I thought they nerfed Triple Snap, but after 20 or so battles Focus+Triple Snap is the same as Triple Snap alone.


As far as im aware, that isnt how Focus works. It takes the hit chance up to 100%, meaning that it wont be Dodged or Miss, but it doesnt change the number of times a multihit ability would hit.


For PvE, the Reflect nerf shouldnt be too bad. For tamers its main use was avoiding massive combo's such as Pandarean Water Spirit. The added damage was just a bonus.

I think that the main problem with Reflect was not that it reflected ability's, but the type of ability's it was used to reflect. Take Burrow for example. Your opponent just used up 2 turns and did no damage, while you did no damage on 1 turn (While the opponent was burrowed) and did a 2 round ability's worth of damage. Effectively putting yourself at a 3(!) round advantage, which is pretty huge.

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Poutinette
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Re: 5.2 PTR: Massive changes inbound for fan favorites

Postby Poutinette » February 3rd, 2013, 6:56 pm

Gendou wrote:[*]Fluxfire Feline's Wind-Up has been replaced with a new ability, Flux, which deals damage to the enemy team.


Is it removed only from Fluxfire Feline? I would'nt mind it being removed from Major Payne's Beakmaster X-225...

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Re: 5.2 PTR: Massive changes inbound for fan favorites

Postby Scratchy1 » February 4th, 2013, 7:01 am

Maievshadow wrote: I think that the main problem with Reflect was not that it reflected ability's, but the type of ability's it was used to reflect. Take Burrow for example. Your opponent just used up 2 turns and did no damage, while you did no damage on 1 turn (While the opponent was burrowed) and did a 2 round ability's worth of damage. Effectively putting yourself at a 3(!) round advantage, which is pretty huge.


Looking at it like that, it sounds like a 2 round advantage. On the other hand, with the way it is in 5.2 it's just a dodge and the only way you gain an advantage out of it is if you specifically manage to negate a 2 round ability. Which means you have to time it right. I would have liked to have seen even a 10 or 20% reflect remain on it, enough to kick in the Humanoid heal on hit ability.

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Maievshadow
 
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Re: 5.2 PTR: Massive changes inbound for fan favorites

Postby Maievshadow » February 4th, 2013, 7:19 am

Scratchy1 wrote:Looking at it like that, it sounds like a 2 round advantage. On the other hand, with the way it is in 5.2 it's just a dodge and the only way you gain an advantage out of it is if you specifically manage to negate a 2 round ability. Which means you have to time it right. I would have liked to have seen even a 10 or 20% reflect remain on it, enough to kick in the Humanoid heal on hit ability.


Its depends how you define a round advantage i suppose. People are staying that now its like a weak dodge, but its more like an equal to dodge for slow pets. Dodge is only useful if your faster than your opponent, if your slower its rather useless, unless you can predict when they will use a big ability. But Reflect always goes first, so for slow pets its still usefull.

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Re: 5.2 PTR: Massive changes inbound for fan favorites

Postby Poofah » February 4th, 2013, 4:31 pm

Maievshadow wrote:People are saying that now its like a weak dodge, but its more like an equal to dodge for slow pets.


Dodge gives you two rounds of avoidance if you're faster though. So it typically gives you a 2-for-1 round advantage, on top of the extra benefit of possibly avoiding a big ability. Reflection was similar: 2-for-1 round advantage, but it didn't require having higher speed. Deflection is 1-for-1 round advantage, regardless of speed. So it's no longer numerically superior to other abilities, meaning that it will be situationally advantageous, as opposed to Reflection which was always advantageous.

Flayer Youngling (breed 5) would much much rather have Dodge in that slot now. For Anubisath Idol, Deflection is still pretty good because it fills a niche: he's a tank pet whose main vulnerability is burst damage, and Deflection can cover that weakness.

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Sweetdr0ps
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Re: 5.2 PTR: Massive changes inbound for fan favorites

Postby Sweetdr0ps » February 5th, 2013, 6:45 am

I agree the FFF needed a nerf but taking a way his main ability and replacing it with a crappy aoe blows, as it is they are already nerfing supercharge, taking out his main skill...im just very bummed, he was one of my main sloters and I would have to guess he will be mildly useless now. Not sure how I feel about the change to reflection.

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Waveryn
 
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Re: 5.2 PTR: Massive changes inbound for fan favorites

Postby Waveryn » February 5th, 2013, 6:59 am

I have yet to PvP with pets and only recently used my 25 FFF, I was busy collecting and doing dailys and found ways to tame the tamers with what I had at 25. Now that I have so many LvL 25's I been trying some of the Strats posted here and some do work exceptionally well for 2x3 on Tamers.
But it also seems sad these nerfs are mostly for PVP and not PvE, I say this because some of the tamers IMO need a nerf, how many times have you had the Earth spirit seem to take 4 turns before you get one and kill or almost kill a pet? They seem to get some massive speed buffs and who knows what at times, so having some pets that can wipe them out only seems fair to me. If I had my way a PVE server would have no PvP of any kind on it even PvP pet battles, thats how much I dislike PvP and wish it was separate from PvE, I pay to play on PvE server.
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Re: 5.2 PTR: Massive changes inbound for fan favorites

Postby Stabya » February 5th, 2013, 8:33 am

I for one agree with the nerfs. The FFF requires no thought whatsoever, and to be able to one shot pets along with coming back to life was ludicrous for PVP.

Reflect and Supercharge, Windup Win, needed to be nerfed. Because the anub idol and FFF were two of the most OP pets in the game. Now having said that, Pet Battlers will go back to the drawing board, and in a few months two new pets will be on the most wanted to be nerfed list.

As for PVE, I think it's refreshing to challenge people who were facerolling the trainers 2 v 3, to pull out different pets to get this done. Well at least an alternative to the FFF, as the anub idol may still have its usefullness.

And as for the Earth Spirit? A fast rabbit will never lose to the Earth spirit, and should be able to put a dent in sludgy

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GilroyKilroy
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Re: 5.2 PTR: Massive changes inbound for fan favorites

Postby GilroyKilroy » February 5th, 2013, 10:46 am

I'm sad for the reflect nerf but not because of the PvP aspect. I thought it was kinda fun to watch my idol make some of the moves of other pets (like stampede.) I guess I still have Simulcrum.

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Re: 5.2 PTR: Massive changes inbound for fan favorites

Postby Poofah » February 5th, 2013, 4:47 pm

more changes:

Pet Battles

Many new Battle Pets and Battle Pet abilities have been added.
Volcano's damage has been reduced by 15%.
Ice Tomb, Elementium Bolt, and Stun Seed's damage has been reduced by 25%.
Geyser's damage has been reduced by 12.5%.
Conflagrate's base damage has been increased by 20% and its bonus damage has been reduced by 60%.
Siphon Life now heals for a flat amount instead of a percentage of the damage that had been dealt.
Ghostly Bite now has a cooldown of 7 rounds (was 3 rounds).
Spectral Strike now has a cooldown of 4 rounds (was 3 rounds).
Light now has a cooldown of 4 rounds (was 3 rounds).
Call Darkness now lasts for 5 rounds (was 9 rounds).


bigtime nerfs for the top comps and burst damage in general -- on the one hand, I'm glad they're aware of these issues, but on the other hand I think some of these nerfs are kind of clumsy. Hopefully they have the time and willingness to iterate on these a bit more.

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Re: 5.2 PTR: Massive changes inbound for fan favorites

Postby Stabya » February 6th, 2013, 2:19 am

I figured eventually they would nerf in some way, Darkness comps. Im gonna miss the 9 round darkness, but i dont think its a fatal nerf at all

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Mykro9
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Re: 5.2 PTR: Massive changes inbound for fan favorites

Postby Mykro9 » February 6th, 2013, 4:15 am

Why is everyone calling FFF a one shot?
Granted it does insta-kill a pet if it hits, but it takes 3 turns to do, and the one round nerf should serve to prevent it being ungodly.
Does no one bring out lil Rag vs him and sons of the flame immediately?
I know it is very over powered in PvP, but I find even the fast one to be squishy in PvE.
Why didn't they just swap windup for supercharge, and replace flux with prowl?
That would make windup less OP overall, and give some use for the other ability slots.
As is I assume everyone ran with pounce + windup + supercharge all day every.

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Re: 5.2 PTR: Massive changes inbound for fan favorites

Postby Stabya » February 6th, 2013, 5:57 am

I call it one shot because it can kill most pets with one attack.

And it's overpowered because it holds the supercharge and windup multiple turns, and also comes back to life after being killed.

It needed a nerf. Too much of a nerf? maybe, but it was way too OP

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