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Trainers are either rigged or pvpers suck. Need replacement?

Discuss pet battles, strategy and theorycrafting.
Pandragon
 
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Trainers are either rigged or pvpers suck. Need replacement?

Postby Pandragon » December 28th, 2012, 2:21 pm

So I finally got a team I like to level 25. I have been stomping people in pvp matches with this team.

Scyther the Flayer Youngling
Blitz
Reflection
Rampage

Ivan the Terrible Turnip
Tidal Wave
Leech Seed
Sons of the Root

Prime the Wild Golden Hatchling
Tail Sweep
Call Lighting
Cyclone

In pvp I generally always start out with Prime, Cast Cyclone then Call Lightning. Then I switch out for Ivan, use Sons of the Root then spam Tidal Wave, using Leech Seed if I need a heal. Finally Scyther goes in to finish off the last pet if need be. A lot of times Ivan just uses Call Lightning plus Tidal Wave and takes out the entire team. My other set up is starting Primes set up and switching right to Scyther.

But it seems in Trainer battles this team is getting stomped, and it appears that Prime is pretty useless. I can't think of a third pet to replace Prime with for Trainer battles. I have/can get any non-tcg/store pet.

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Lowbrowdeluxe
 
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Re: Trainers are either rigged or pvpers suck. Need replacem

Postby Lowbrowdeluxe » December 28th, 2012, 3:00 pm

Okay, you named your Flayer Scyther, so I'm going to assume you know that...other game. Would you really take the same team to every trainer battle? (Other than outleveling them entirely and just thundershocking everything with a level 99 Pik...electric mouse.) I use a different team for almost every trainer battle (exception being Townlong Steppe and Dread Wastes trainers).

Bat/Snarly for townland, Dread Wastes, and the Flowing Pandaran Spirit (and a third skimming xp) (Jade Owl may work better for Sho in the Dread Wastes, Bat required some hefty RNG sometimes, bat is preferable on Flowing, and best to have it go first and get Marley the fish first, switch in the lowbie on the skimmer/critter to get his hit for xp)

Panda Monk(Storebought, but other humanoids should work) or Chromius and Snarly for Burning panda

Fluxfire Feline/Snarly for Nishi and Thundering

Panda Monk/Crab for Aki the Chosen

Bat/Fluxfire or Nexus Whelp/Fluxfire for Jade Forest

Chromius with Bite/Ancestral Blessing/Ravage and Snarly on Whispering (Honestly sometimes RNG is a pain with cyclone and an aquatic but it's so much easier to kill the elemental that way. Or maybe that's burning. Regardless, Cyclone is annoying)


With all that said, the trainers are rigged. They're totally rigged. Miss rate is way high, and their hit rate is way high. I can only assume it's some sort of trainer=Boss/Elite thing, but without being able to stack extra hit to compensate for it.

Pandragon
 
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Re: Trainers are either rigged or pvpers suck. Need replacem

Postby Pandragon » December 28th, 2012, 3:15 pm

Lowbrowdeluxe wrote:Okay, you named your Flayer Scyther, so I'm going to assume you know that...other game. Would you really take the same team to every trainer battle? (Other than outleveling them entirely and just thundershocking everything with a level 99 Pik...electric mouse.) I use a different team for almost every trainer battle (exception being Townlong Steppe and Dread Wastes trainers).

Bat/Snarly for townland, Dread Wastes, and the Flowing Pandaran Spirit (and a third skimming xp) (Jade Owl may work better for Sho in the Dread Wastes, Bat required some hefty RNG sometimes, bat is preferable on Flowing, and best to have it go first and get Marley the fish first, switch in the lowbie on the skimmer/critter to get his hit for xp)

Panda Monk(Storebought, but other humanoids should work) or Chromius and Snarly for Burning panda

Fluxfire Feline/Snarly for Nishi and Thundering

Panda Monk/Crab for Aki the Chosen

Bat/Fluxfire or Nexus Whelp/Fluxfire for Jade Forest

Chromius with Bite/Ancestral Blessing/Ravage and Snarly on Whispering (Honestly sometimes RNG is a pain with cyclone and an aquatic but it's so much easier to kill the elemental that way. Or maybe that's burning. Regardless, Cyclone is annoying)


With all that said, the trainers are rigged. They're totally rigged. Miss rate is way high, and their hit rate is way high. I can only assume it's some sort of trainer=Boss/Elite thing, but without being able to stack extra hit to compensate for it.


Yes I played Pokemon, and yes I used the same pokemon for every trainer. I would build my team so one pokemon would support the weakness of another. My fave(as you could guess) was Scyther, so my other pokemon would support his weakness, then the next for that ones weakness. I generally had 3 Grass, 1 Water to protect against fire, and one Psychic for the zomg hits wild card thing.

I kinda figured they were rigged when the one in icecrown killed my Prime who was 50% hp, and his Mechapeep was at 2 hp after reviving.

NExus Whelpling is interesting. I kinda want my third spot to be used by a Dragonkin.

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Gilneas
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Re: Trainers are either rigged or pvpers suck. Need replacem

Postby Gilneas » December 28th, 2012, 9:52 pm

The Mechanopeep has two fairly hard hitting abilities. Being mechanical, he revives when killed. I wouldn't call that "rigged."

They are intended to be somewhat difficult (why the later trainers have epic/legendary pets which are qualities we cannot reach yet). Most of them end up being pretty easy though, once you work out a good strat for them. I've got that particular Northrend trainer down pretty well.

There is a certain amount of luck/randomness involved, as there is with most things in WoW, so that it doesn't get too predictable. Its usually not so bad that you can't recover though -- and it does go both ways. I've had the tamers have some pretty bad luck on misses/dodges too. (Seemed like Nishi could never land that burrow when I *wanted* her to kill my pet!)

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Re: Trainers are either rigged or pvpers suck. Need replacem

Postby Pandragon » December 29th, 2012, 1:25 am

Gilneas wrote:The Mechanopeep has two fairly hard hitting abilities. Being mechanical, he revives when killed. I wouldn't call that "rigged."

They are intended to be somewhat difficult (why the later trainers have epic/legendary pets which are qualities we cannot reach yet). Most of them end up being pretty easy though, once you work out a good strat for them. I've got that particular Northrend trainer down pretty well.

There is a certain amount of luck/randomness involved, as there is with most things in WoW, so that it doesn't get too predictable. Its usually not so bad that you can't recover though -- and it does go both ways. I've had the tamers have some pretty bad luck on misses/dodges too. (Seemed like Nishi could never land that burrow when I *wanted* her to kill my pet!)


Missing 3 attacks in a row with him at 2 hp when none of my attacks missed before. I'd call that rigged. But regardless do you have anything to say about my team? I think I should replace Prime with a pet a little more durable. Scyther and Ivan are durable as hell, and pack a punch. I'm now running into the problem that if my opponent has a weather ability, then my power drops significantly.

Well I took the 3k I got from beating Aki, and bought a Guardian Cub. He is proving to be a good replacement to my Prime. But now Ivan is showing a lot of weakness without Primes Call Thunder. So I might switch him out.

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Polynices
 
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Re: Trainers are either rigged or pvpers suck. Need replacem

Postby Polynices » December 29th, 2012, 9:59 pm

You're not meant to beat the harder trainers with a fixed team. You have to match the strengths of your pets to the weaknesses of the trainer's pets. Some pets are strong enough you can use them on anything but mostly you'll want to match carefully.

Also, PvP is against people using the exact same array of pets as you. NPC trainers get pets better than anything you can have since they're just NPCs and have relatively poor AI. That's not "rigged". It does mean a fixed team is only PvP.

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Tidus4eva
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Re: Trainers are either rigged or pvpers suck. Need replacem

Postby Tidus4eva » December 29th, 2012, 11:58 pm

I stomp all the trainers with a team of Lil XT and Lil Deathwing. The third pet is either a levelling pet or a random one of my 25's to offset a difficult tamer's pets like an Elemental in Dread Wastes or Townlong Steppes.

Unlike Pokemon, Pet Battles are limited to level 25, which means you are generally fighting teams at an equal or higher power level to your own. Pokemon you can level up to 100 and easily pwn level 60-70's (Elite Four) even if they are 'Not Very Effective'

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Domie
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Re: Trainers are either rigged or pvpers suck. Need replacem

Postby Domie » December 30th, 2012, 9:58 am

I have 8 diffrent pets i use to fight all the trainers in pandaria, so i swap to use a pet that is gonna be effective against the trainers.I only fight them when im leveling another pet tho, so clearly i need the advantage since im going 2 and a low level vs 3 max level pets.

But about mayor payne, he was by far the trainer i had the most problems with the first time around.

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Altra
 
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Re: Trainers are either rigged or pvpers suck. Need replacem

Postby Altra » December 30th, 2012, 10:32 am

Most of the trainers I can handle with a team of

Comeback, the Whelp of Onyxia
Weinberg, the Rapana Whelk
Reisser, the Flayer Youngling

Although at times I switch in my Fluxfire Kitten, Felflame or others. By now I have plenty of pets to choose from.

Admittedly I don't pvp, so I have no Idea how they would survive a match.

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Shakesbeard
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Re: Trainers are either rigged or pvpers suck. Need replacem

Postby Shakesbeard » December 30th, 2012, 12:33 pm

my trainer teams (1 or 2 of these + a lowbie vs any tamer dailies)

celestial drag
rapana whelk
darkmoon zep
clockwork gnome
pterodax
strider
oozeling

strider can solo farm lady, ooze can solo water spirit
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Hetfield
 
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Re: Trainers are either rigged or pvpers suck. Need replacem

Postby Hetfield » January 2nd, 2013, 11:09 am

Shakesbeard wrote:my trainer teams (1 or 2 of these + a lowbie vs any tamer dailies)

celestial drag
rapana whelk
darkmoon zep
clockwork gnome
pterodax
strider
oozeling

strider can solo farm lady, ooze can solo water spirit


I want to commend you on your list because not only is it reasonable against trainers and certainly awesome in others it is also a great list of pets that do not require you to purchase one with real money. Some of these pets are quite easy to get while some may take a bit of time to farm (archaeology, achievements, darkmoon).

I use emerald whelpling pretty often for different fights, it almost seems his emerald dream is a bit over tuned. I've personally gotten a bit bored with my flayer although his reflect ability is awesome I feel his offensive abilities are a bit boring. Using a humanoid pet against a dragonkin type should be a simple a>b but he often dies to a few dragons before he has a chance to finish them off. It could be due to misses or not getting an extra hit in on his ability but it shouldn't be a rng thing every time i use him.

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Ril
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Re: Trainers are either rigged or pvpers suck. Need replacem

Postby Ril » January 2nd, 2013, 4:21 pm

Shakesbeard wrote:my trainer teams (1 or 2 of these + a lowbie vs any tamer dailies)

celestial drag
rapana whelk
darkmoon zep
clockwork gnome
pterodax
strider
oozeling

strider can solo farm lady, ooze can solo water spirit


mind to clarify a bit? i've managed to level one set of pets so far but am struggling against several trainers (some take many attempts), now i'm trying to figure out what to level / optimize (find best breed) next.

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Pheratia
 
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Re: Trainers are either rigged or pvpers suck. Need replacem

Postby Pheratia » January 3rd, 2013, 7:48 am

picking pets to stomp the trainers in order to level pets:

carefully hidden on this hotfix thread: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1659&start=20#p12354

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Shakesbeard
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Re: Trainers are either rigged or pvpers suck. Need replacem

Postby Shakesbeard » January 3rd, 2013, 5:01 pm

Ril wrote:mind to clarify a bit? i've managed to level one set of pets so far but am struggling against several trainers (some take many attempts), now i'm trying to figure out what to level / optimize (find best breed) next.


which are you struggling with?

my order is something like this:
(from memory, hopefully i don't make too many mistakes)

(my pet specs + general rotations at bottom)

SMV trainer: pump pet + zep + level 1 lowbie
pump vs ele, forfeit til ele is first
pump pump heal water attack, dead.
next trainer pet, atttack & heal til my pet dies, switch in level 1 for free round (no trainer attack), switch to zep
(last 2 trainers are magic pets, less dmg to mech)
block, bomb, attack, repeat for 3rd pet, wait for trainer blocks to be off for bomb if poss, prob won't matter tho

kara & winterspring: pretty much any one 25, something with heal is good, any lowbie(s) for levelling xp
kill first 2, switch lowbie(s) in only for 3rd (not too low, they will take hits)
not hard at all no details needed

northrend: i skip this one
- [edit]: zep + ooze, or zep + celest, got both to work

uldum dam: celest drag, zep, lowbie
drag vs fly, forfeit til fly comes up first
drag vs next, when drag dies put in lowbie for one free round (trainer won't attack) switch to zep
block on cd, bomb on cd, attack

Aki: haven't figured out a solid way to 2-pet Aki, so i usually zerg her with 3 25's for the pet sack... either something with shield and get critter first, gnome vs drag to get bonus mech damage for the turret + lightning weather... multiple ways to beat with 3 25's
- [edit] solo'd with magical crawdad

(by the time i'm onto pandaria trainers, the level 1 i started with is getting high enough to be useful in a pinch if something goes wrong ;) )

earth spirit: rapana whelk is easy for earth spirit. multi-round cc fails on critters.
rapana will die on 2nd pet, switch lowbie in for one round (unless it's high enough level to take a hit, and can do something useful)
zep till end... stone rush on 3rd trainer pet is ele so be careful, use block for that
(i've used various pets for this, rapana + another, i forget what all i got to work)

air spirit: celestial drag + oozing
celestial is strong D against air attacks, all attacks from all 3 trainer pets are air so order doesn't matter
oozeling is not ideal, but it works

jade forest: celestial + zep
celestial vs fly, forfeit if snake comes up first
celest owns fly, dies to beast, switch in lowbie 1 round
zep vs beast, save block for burrow
zep vs turtle, grab a beverage cause it takes forever, but block will block its only attack every time

krasarang: zep + celest
zep vs beast, forfeit if not beast... block first for the burrow, pass, bomb, attack, beast is dead on bomb hit
switch to drag vs fly (instead of my usual strat of letting 1st 25 die on 2nd pet)
switch in lowbie when drag dies, or can be put in with zep's block protecting it

halfhill: pump
easier if flower is first, forfeit if not
switch in lowbie for first round of turnip, back to pump
key here is having pump primed when 3rd tamer pet enters (beast)
pump attack first beast round, pump prime when it burrows, pump attack, heal if needed, pump prime, pump attack

<do tillers farming, remind self that i need to use the 100+ spirits of harmony i have from farming>
<hearth>

kun-lai: drag + gnome
drag vs fly, forfeit if rabbit is first
fly will always lift-off 2nd move, so moon fire, pass, breath, heal unless liftoff missed, etc
drag vs rabbit, switch lowbie in when drag dies (hopefully lowbie is close to 25 by this time and can help with rabbit)
gnome vs Bleat - i usually turret, repair, turret, attack til next turret cd

fire spirit: drag + ooze
drag vs drag, forfeit if tamer drag isn't first
tamer's cyclone will take a chunk out of back row, so hopefully lowbie isn't too low
ooze is not ideal 2nd, but it works

townlong & dread wastes: pump + pterodax
pump vs ele, forfeit if ele isn't first
on townlong, use ptero liftoff after sleep is cast, sleep fails if you're airborne (otherwise tamer pump will kill you while you sleep)
on dread wastes, use liftoff to avoid whirlpool when that is going to hit (not when it is cast but when there is 1 round left on debuff)

<check the 2 dread wastes rares that can drop pets>

water spirit: on Marley, switch in lowbie 1st round, back to ooze
easy

---

one day of dailies, two pets powerlevelled from 1-25 :)

----

specs/rotation

Monica Celestial - celestial dragon: breath, heal, moonfire
not much to say, heal when needed, try not to waste moonfire cd on a burrow/cocoon/liftoff/dive

G O O D Y E A R - zep: missle, decoy (i called it block above), bombing run
decoy is so great... it blocks 2 attacks, but it isn't wasted if tamer pet doesn't attack (heal, self-buff, etc)
try not to waste bomb cd on burrow/cocoon/liftoff/dive

Grim Repair - clockwork gnome: fist, repair, turret
turret, repair, turret, fist til turret cd is up- good rotation, but sometimes you can save repair for after 2nd turret
if i use gnome on Aki's drag for example, no repair since gnome would die during... but fist will do bonus damage from lightning weather, and more turret rounds will spill over to 2nd pet and get bonus lightning damage (since repair will make you miss turret cd by one round)

Ptang - pterrodax: slicing, heal, liftoff ( the other 1st slot ability is also ok)
heal when needed, liftoff to avoid burrow/whirlpool/sleep/ etc
(remember bonus speed for flyers if above 50% hp, so keep healed to give liftoff an advantage)

Gangsta Rapana - rapana whelk: absorb, acidic, dive
shield is also ok but i only use rapana for earth spirit, acidic is better (does damage and buffs absorb)

Disgoozting - disgusting oozeling: absorb, corrosion, acidic
corrosion and acidic both boost damage and they stack... they affect the ticks on each other, and buff absorb damage/heal :D
acidic is 3 rounds corrosion is 2... so the rotation is acidic, corrosion, absorb, absorb, repeat
if you get a random miss on anything, it might mean a fail... but maybe not

Pump It Up Yall - eternal strider: jet, heal, pump
soothing rain is a great 2nd slot ability, but a heal is a heal.
rotation is pump prime, pump attack, heal if needed, repeat... jet as a last ditch attack if you're about to die and won't be able to get off a pump prime + attack
and for halfhill tamer, you want pump primed when beast enters battle, so finish off turnip with pump prime, jet jet


----


this all is just stuff i found out on my own with what pets i had available... i have over 80 25's now and i'm sure there are many other team combos that will work. but imo, these are seven solid pets that you will be happy with at 25.
Last edited by Shakesbeard on January 4th, 2013, 6:02 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Gendou
 
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Re: Trainers are either rigged or pvpers suck. Need replacem

Postby Gendou » January 3rd, 2013, 8:29 pm

Thanks for the guide, Shakesbeard.
I have a lot of pets, but I don't have set teams for some of these.
It's nice to see what other trainers do and what their reasoning is.
I had to figure out a lot of the stuff myself as well, through trial-and-error.

Shakesbeard wrote:northrend: i skip this one


Fluxfire Feline: Claw / Windup / Supercharge
Eternal Strider: Jet / Heal / Pump
Lowbie

Make sure Grizzle goes first.
(he does 9 times out of 10, unlike the damned moth at the Uldum dam)

With Luck: (with really good luck you can actually kill all three with just the pre-nerf Fluxfire)
Supercharge, Windup, Windup: Grizzle Dead.
Windup, Supercharge, Windup: Beak Dead.
Claw,Claw,Claw until Fluxfire is dead.
Swap in Lowbie for free.
Swap in Eternal Strider.
Pump, Heal, Pump, Jet, Pump: Bloom Dead.

Without Luck:
Supercharge, pass because of stun, Windup, Windup: Grizzle Dead.
Windup, Supercharge, Die, Revive, Die Again because Supercharged Shock and Awe is nasty.
Swap in Lowbie for free.
Swap in Eternal Strider.
Pump, Heal, Pump, Pump, Pump, Heal, Pump -> until either they die or you die.


Rotations will have to change post-5.2 when Fluxfire is nerfed, but until then, this works well for getting that extra bag.
ImageImage

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Shakesbeard
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Re: Trainers are either rigged or pvpers suck. Need replacem

Postby Shakesbeard » January 3rd, 2013, 10:45 pm

my fluxfire is 20, i'll try him on northrend tomorrow

tried that tamer today using only combos of my Team Of Seven... managed it with zep and celestial, but i got some lucky misses and good timing with things coming off cd at just the right time
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Ril
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Re: Trainers are either rigged or pvpers suck. Need replacem

Postby Ril » January 4th, 2013, 9:24 am

Shakesbeard: whoa, thanks a lot! when i asked i didn't expect to get a full grown guide. thanks again.

now on the tamers i struggled with, well, of course payne, it's by far the worst of all, and a few mop and the cata trainers as well. however this is no surprise because my first team was feline familiar, snowy owl and pandaren monk. the feline is pretty vulnerable because it has to cast darkness with prowl (when it gets it off however it is extremely powerful), it can take only a little damage, has virtually zero defense and almost always hits second. the snowy owl depends on the darkness for the full potential of nocturnal strike, and the monk's stun during darkness often causes switches, which is rarely desirable.

thanks to your guide i have much more of an idea what i will level next, because honestly the sheer number of different possibilities was overwhelming. i picked my first set because i love my familiar and owl, and initially thought that the pandaren monk would have good synergy.

ps. a question about your pet choice: you took a rapana, was it only because of it's high level, or because of it's S/S or breedID 5? afaik scooter the snail has the same skills, is H/H or breedID 6.

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Re: Trainers are either rigged or pvpers suck. Need replacem

Postby Gromagrim » January 4th, 2013, 10:45 am

Major Payne? certainly was before I made a team tailored to down him.

It's rare for a trainer team to have 3 difficult pets, but here, you get;

Grizzle - beast with strong attacks, stun and hibernate - needs strong sustained attack to take him out before the hibernate.
Beakmaster X-225 - Very hard hitting attacks, and resses once he's dead.
Bloom - 2 round nuke dot, multiple lash attacks and heals.

I'd had a lot of success with my levelling team of about 5 pets until I came up against this guy. Basic strategies should revolve around;

Setting up a nuke to 1-shot Grizzle. The archetypal nuke being Fluxfire Feline's Supercharged Wind-up - this will one shot guarenteed in 5.1, and should even after the 5.2 nerf. Other sugegsted I've seen are Anodized robo-cub with Supercharged Demolish, Clockwork Gnomes Rocket, Lock-On from the darkmoon Tonk or Grunty can also take him out in a couple of rounds. FFF is the way forward I feel - if you get lucky he can take out two pets, allowing you to level a pet while you kill this trainer.

Elemental against Beaky. Burn him - Conflagrate will take him to 0 health, then use any follow-up to finish him. He'll be hitting hard beforehe dies, but you're an elemental, so soak it :p. Lil' Ragnaros is the first choice here, but Fel Flame, Spirit of Summer, Searing Schorchling and Pandaren Fire Spirit all have Conflag + Scorched Earth or Flamethrower.

Bloom - Aquatics with a nuke work really well. Pump/Cleansing rain from Striders, Fish etc., Rip/Blood in the Water from baby crocs. Some people swear by snails - they have a medium strong aquatic nuke in dive (also lets you avoid the entangling roots here), they're also critters which reduces incomign elemental damage, and they can heal themselves with Absorb.

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Re: Trainers are either rigged or pvpers suck. Need replacem

Postby Byntaran » January 4th, 2013, 1:29 pm

Trainers are rigged. Especially the Spirit Trainers, whose pets are 'Legendary' quality and don't match type to model.

My 25 Blues so far:
Amber Moth
Cat
Celestial Dragon
Clouded Hedgehog
Cogblade Raptor
Dark Phoenix Hatchling
Fire-Proof Roach
Frosty
Oily Slimling
Pandaren Monk
Tundra Penguin

So I have a nice wide range of ability and types to throw at trainers.

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Shakesbeard
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Re: Trainers are either rigged or pvpers suck. Need replacem

Postby Shakesbeard » January 4th, 2013, 1:33 pm

Ril wrote:ps. a question about your pet choice: you took a rapana, was it only because of it's high level, or because of it's S/S or breedID 5? afaik scooter the snail has the same skills, is H/H or breedID 6.


hmm good point, and my scooter is rarestoned... when i started on pandaria tamers he was uncommon tho, rapana rare i had already for collecting. my scooter right now is in a level 10-ish pvp crew, but maybe in the future i'll bump out rapana. rapana works fine for earth spirit tho, and a ways into the 2nd tamer pet.
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