My Pet Collection
You've collected 0 pets
Log in to track your collection

Reflection -- how does it work?

Discuss pet battles, strategy and theorycrafting.
User avatar
Poofah
 
Posts: 803
Joined: October 5th, 2012
Pet Score: 3361

Reflection -- how does it work?

Postby Poofah » January 3rd, 2013, 6:43 pm

Reflection changed behavior significantly in 5.1, and is somewhat unpredictable in how it interacts with different abilities. I'm trying to figure out the general rule for how it functions, so if anyone can add to this I'd be grateful.

Reflection: "Your opponent's next ability misses you and you perform the attack instead. Lasts 1 round."

What it actually does seems closer to this: it doesn't obey speed, instead it always is applied before any attacks for the round; it causes all attacks to miss the caster (this includes any direct damage or delayed damage such as Elementium Bolt, but it doesn't prevent DoT damage); at the end of the turn*, it copies the most recent attack that it prevented.

Particular cases include the following:

If you Reflect a delayed damage effect on the turn it's cast, you will prevent the application of the debuff, and you will apply that debuff to the opponent. If you Reflect a delayed damage effect on the turn that it would deal damage, you prevent the damage and you deal that damage to the opponent (including any secondary effects such as the stun from Elementium Bolt).

If you Reflect a Lift-Off on the turn it's cast, you accomplish nothing. If you Reflect a Lift-Off on the turn the opponent comes crashing down on you, you prevent the damage and you also perform the damage-dealing part of Lift-Off.

If you Reflect the second use of Pump or Wind-Up (ie the damage-dealing use), you prevent the damage, but you perform the first half of a Pump/Wind-Up. Ie, you gain the Pump or Wind-Up buff, but don't deal any damage.



* 'End of the turn' is a fuzzy concept, since many things happen at the end of the turn and although they occur in a particular order, that order isn't documented. In this case, Reflection performs its attack after DoTs and delayed damage trigger, but before the humanoid racial heals.

User avatar
Suspiro
Top Rater
 
Posts: 53
Joined: April 6th, 2009
Pet Score: 2803

Re: Reflection -- how does it work?

Postby Suspiro » January 3rd, 2013, 9:01 pm

Even weirder, and you have probably witnessed this yourself, if a pet that used Reflection dies on the turn in which it used Reflection (due to DoTs), the dead pet will STILL reflect whatever ability came its way.

User avatar
Poofah
 
Posts: 803
Joined: October 5th, 2012
Pet Score: 3361

Re: Reflection -- how does it work?

Postby Poofah » January 3rd, 2013, 9:15 pm

I haven't seen that, actually. Probably because my pets never die. ;)

Another oddity is that often, if you Reflect an ability that applies a debuff, the debuff will gain an extra turn. This is especially noticeable with CC effects, in particular Kick. My best guess is that Reflect is actually performing its attack *after* the part of the turn when debuff durations would normally be decremented: therefore the Reflected ability is applied too late to have its duration reduced. The best evidence I can give for this is if you fight the Water Spirit (or any delayed damage effect, really)--Reflection can clearly reflect the many end-of-turn damage effects like Whirlpool/Geyser, and these effects normally trigger at the same time that their debuff expires.

User avatar
Quintessence
Site Admin
 
Posts: 1507
Joined: June 4th, 2008
Pet Score: 3892

Re: Reflection -- how does it work?

Postby Quintessence » January 3rd, 2013, 9:36 pm

Poofah wrote:If you Reflect the second use of Pump or Wind-Up (ie the damage-dealing use), you prevent the damage, but you perform the first half of a Pump/Wind-Up. Ie, you gain the Pump or Wind-Up buff, but don't deal any damage.


I believe the 10% dmg increase from the Pump buff also applies to future attacks done by the reflecting pet, but I haven't tested this extensively. If so, then Reflect can potentially replicate self-buffs even though it's supposed to only deflect offensive attacks.
Image
Feel free to browse through Perks N Peeves, my vanity pet collecting blog!

User avatar
Gromagrim
 
Posts: 236
Joined: August 5th, 2009
Pet Score: 3524

Re: Reflection -- how does it work?

Postby Gromagrim » January 4th, 2013, 6:01 am

Quintessence wrote:I believe the 10% dmg increase from the Pump buff also applies to future attacks done by the reflecting pet, but I haven't tested this extensively. If so, then Reflect can potentially replicate self-buffs even though it's supposed to only deflect offensive attacks.
I think Pump/Wind up may be a special case as the one spell has different effects dependent on whether or not the caster has the buff already or not.

It is an offensive attack, so can be reflected, but when the reflector performs the attack, they don't have the corresponding buff, so the spell treats itself as a first cast, and buffs the reflector.

I've never had a fight go on long enough, but has anyone tried reflecting a second Pump, when their flayer/idol already has the pump buff?

User avatar
Quintessence
Site Admin
 
Posts: 1507
Joined: June 4th, 2008
Pet Score: 3892

Re: Reflection -- how does it work?

Postby Quintessence » January 4th, 2013, 10:35 am

Gromagrim wrote:I've never had a fight go on long enough, but has anyone tried reflecting a second Pump, when their flayer/idol already has the pump buff?


Oh man, if the buff stacks.... :lol: I'm going to have to find a pet buddy and test that!
Image
Feel free to browse through Perks N Peeves, my vanity pet collecting blog!

User avatar
Gromagrim
 
Posts: 236
Joined: August 5th, 2009
Pet Score: 3524

Re: Reflection -- how does it work?

Postby Gromagrim » January 4th, 2013, 10:48 am

I've got a feeling the second reflect will reflect the damage, as the caster (flayer/idol) has the pump buff at the time.

Otherwise, you could stack up for some crazy damage :p

Klunketh
 
Posts: 14
Joined: September 25th, 2012
Pet Score: 2429

Re: Reflection -- how does it work?

Postby Klunketh » January 4th, 2013, 11:16 am

Ive noticed that when i reflect Nishi,s sunflower weather effect that it also does damage to my back line too.

User avatar
Notamonk
 
Posts: 115
Joined: December 20th, 2012
Pet Score: 833

Re: Reflection -- how does it work?

Postby Notamonk » January 4th, 2013, 11:42 am

I've been noticing this myself. Everything you described in your post is how its working for me. It is rather annoying facing a Fluxfire Feline and using reflect on his big "one shot" set up and only being able to apply the windup buff to you and not being able to use it! xD

But more often then not I find myself abusing this ability like crazy. This ability has save my butt so many times, and more often then not made me win the battle! :D

User avatar
Talmar
MVP
 
Posts: 273
Joined: November 12th, 2010
Pet Score: 3181

Re: Reflection -- how does it work?

Postby Talmar » January 4th, 2013, 11:48 am

Klunketh wrote:Ive noticed that when i reflect Nishi,s sunflower weather effect that it also does damage to my back line too.


What I see with this is the Sunflower casts sunlight, I reflect the damage that would have been done to me but not the whole ability so the damage portion that would affect my back line pets still does so. However, when I perform the reflected attack I'm also dealing damage to Nishi's back line pets as well.

User avatar
Poofah
 
Posts: 803
Joined: October 5th, 2012
Pet Score: 3361

Re: Reflection -- how does it work?

Postby Poofah » January 4th, 2013, 12:56 pm

Gromagrim wrote:
Quintessence wrote:I believe the 10% dmg increase from the Pump buff also applies to future attacks done by the reflecting pet, but I haven't tested this extensively. If so, then Reflect can potentially replicate self-buffs even though it's supposed to only deflect offensive attacks.
I think Pump/Wind up may be a special case as the one spell has different effects dependent on whether or not the caster has the buff already or not.

It is an offensive attack, so can be reflected, but when the reflector performs the attack, they don't have the corresponding buff, so the spell treats itself as a first cast, and buffs the reflector.

I've never had a fight go on long enough, but has anyone tried reflecting a second Pump, when their flayer/idol already has the pump buff?


Yes--if you Reflect a Pump, you gain the buff; if you Reflect a second Pump with that same pet, you perform the Pump attack and lose the buff. I'm fairly sure that it's for the reason you cite: Pump is checking for a condition on the caster, and when you Reflect a Pump, it seems like the game is correctly checking the Reflecting pet for that condition (and not finding it). In the case of Pump, the result is a little bit odd, but it's consistent with the description of Pump.

Another example of correctly checking for conditionals is Conflagrate--if the Flayer has Immolate on it, and reflects a Conflagrate, the reflected version will only get one hit on the opponent.

Talmar wrote:
Klunketh wrote:Ive noticed that when i reflect Nishi,s sunflower weather effect that it also does damage to my back line too.


What I see with this is the Sunflower casts sunlight, I reflect the damage that would have been done to me but not the whole ability so the damage portion that would affect my back line pets still does so. However, when I perform the reflected attack I'm also dealing damage to Nishi's back line pets as well.


This happens with Tidal Wave too. This is one of the cases where the actual result is consistent with Reflection's description: it only causes abilities to miss the pet that casts Reflection; it doesn't prevent those abilities altogether. And then it copies the whole ability.

User avatar
Aristaeus
 
Posts: 1
Joined: December 25th, 2010
Pet Score: 3007

Re: Reflection -- how does it work?

Postby Aristaeus » January 4th, 2013, 4:23 pm

I found that reflect is AMAZING for power leveling pets that have it. It doesn't appear to be restricted to level and will literally reflect any attack. This means your level 1 Idol can be first up on a level 25 wild pet battle, cast reflect for his mandatory combat round, and then when your level 25 Jumping Spider wipes the floor with the rest of the team will gain several levels all at once. It's ridiculously fun to see a single digit pet apply a twenty something's poison attack right back on the caster! :mrgreen:


Return to Pet Battles

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: AdsBot [Google], Amiebubbles, Melfice and 12 guests