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Concern? re my collection stats

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Hatkins621
 
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Concern? re my collection stats

Postby Hatkins621 » June 9th, 2014, 3:12 pm

I've been trying to increase my "Pet score" by going back and replacing my poor and common quality pets with rare or even uncommon. I've noticed these last couple times that I've done the "update collection" that the stat that's "Pet's at Max Level" has been going DOWN, when I'm not getting rid of my lvl 25 pets at all. I had 51, and then I had updated and it showed 49, and I thought I was just imagining it and my brain was doing funny things but then I just did it again and it's now showing 48. WTF?

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Kpb321
 
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Re: Concern? re my collection stats

Postby Kpb321 » June 9th, 2014, 3:57 pm

That would be correct if you had already leveled your less than rare quality pet to 25. When you replace it with a rare version it only counts the rare version that isn't yet 25 as that is the count of your "unique" pets at level 25 and does not include duplicates. Rarity is the first factor it looks at when identifying your "unique" pet so a lvl 23 rare pet is your "unique" pet over a level 25 uncommon pet.

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Hatkins621
 
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Re: Concern? re my collection stats

Postby Hatkins621 » June 9th, 2014, 4:41 pm

99% of my lvl 25s ARE rares....I haven't searched for rares of those that aren't because those are the harder to find ones iirc. Most of what I've been doing is just getting rid of my common and poor ones, and I wouldn't have lvl 25s there.

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Voskres
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Re: Concern? re my collection stats

Postby Voskres » June 9th, 2014, 5:14 pm

Since the update, the overwhelming value is on the level not the pet. 1 pet is just one pet for points but that pet has 25 levels for points. So as you can see it is more valuable to have more levels than more pets.

I rare pet is going to get you 5 points at level one but at level 25 it is added into the aggregate levels of all 400-600 of your pets, meaning that each level one you have will signiigantly drop your average thus your newly awarded extra bonus levels as per the new system.

The change to the system only benifited levelers, not sheer collectors. Common wisdom will argue that everyone got the points, but the levelers got far more than the collectors did.

So you will get 5 points for a new rare pet, you will get one point for making a green into a blue, but you now get 4x the average level of all pets as extra points, which is the wall you have to climb.

I see about 175 level one pets in your collection, which means you got a LONG way to go to start raising your average level (you will need to raise about 2-3 level 1 pets to 25 to see a .1 bump in your 13.5 to a 13.6).

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Kpb321
 
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Re: Concern? re my collection stats

Postby Kpb321 » June 9th, 2014, 5:31 pm

Voskres, You need to review the new scoring system because you are incorrect on how the scoring is done.

1) Each unique pet is 2 points.
2) You get additional points for the pets quality. 0 points for poor, 1 for common, 2 for uncommon or 3 for each rare
3) It's .04 points per level

That means there is 5 points for each unique rare pet you have in your collection and 1 additional point for leveling it from level 1 to 25. That means that collecting is still ~83% of your score and leveling is ~17% of your score. That assumes you never level a single pet or capture a single pet above level 1. The reality is you get about half the 17% pretty much just from leveling a small number of pets and capturing higher level wild pets.

The old scoring system used the average level and could be very difficult to gain much points in but the new system does not. It's .04 * total combined pet levels so getting 25 levels on any combination of pets gets you 1 more point. That could be getting 3 pets from level 1 to 9/10, 5 pets from level 1 to level 6 or one pet from level 1 to level 25.

Besides Hatkins621 isn't asking about his pet score going down (which is impossible for that to happen when upgrading pet quality because worst case is you loose 1 point for going from a level 25 to a level 1 but gain a point for going from an uncommon to a rare) but is asking about the X # of pets at max level figure which is just a count of the number of unique level 25 pets you have.

Hatkins621,

A quick look at your pet list and sorting it by level shows uncommon quality Amber Moth, Jungle Grub and Rapna Whelk duplicates at level 25. Your Rare Amber Moth is level 23 would explain one lost level 25 but your other two rares are also level 25. Maybe that was your first drop you noticed and has since been regained after leveling the rare grub and whelk to 25.

Another possibility is if you stoned a lvl 25 pet to make it a rare it would loose two levels and be level 23 now.

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Hatkins621
 
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Re: Concern? re my collection stats

Postby Hatkins621 » June 9th, 2014, 9:06 pm

Voskres wrote:Since the update, the overwhelming value is on the level not the pet. 1 pet is just one pet for points but that pet has 25 levels for points. So as you can see it is more valuable to have more levels than more pets.

I rare pet is going to get you 5 points at level one but at level 25 it is added into the aggregate levels of all 400-600 of your pets, meaning that each level one you have will signiigantly drop your average thus your newly awarded extra bonus levels as per the new system.

The change to the system only benifited levelers, not sheer collectors. Common wisdom will argue that everyone got the points, but the levelers got far more than the collectors did.

So you will get 5 points for a new rare pet, you will get one point for making a green into a blue, but you now get 4x the average level of all pets as extra points, which is the wall you have to climb.

I see about 175 level one pets in your collection, which means you got a LONG way to go to start raising your average level (you will need to raise about 2-3 level 1 pets to 25 to see a .1 bump in your 13.5 to a 13.6).


Wasn't what I was asking....

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Voskres
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Re: Concern? re my collection stats

Postby Voskres » June 9th, 2014, 10:21 pm

Kpb321 wrote:Voskres, You need to review the new scoring system because you are incorrect on how the scoring is done.

That means there is 5 points for each unique rare pet you have in your collection and 1 additional point for leveling it from level 1 to 25.


Which is exactly what I said.

Voskres wrote: So you will get 5 points for a new rare pet, you will get one point for making a green into a blue



I don't understand why a couple of y'all are so bent on personal attacks and character assassination.

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Quintessence
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Re: Concern? re my collection stats

Postby Quintessence » June 9th, 2014, 10:24 pm

Hatkins621, could you re-import your collection again after replacing an uncommon with a rare quality version? Be sure they are the same level, or the rare one is higher level and note which pet you replaced/upgraded. If your total number of unique level 25 pets goes down again, we'll investigate to see if there are any errors occurring when an import is done.

It might be possible that what happened is what Kpb321 explained. If you replaced an uncommon pet that was level 25 with a rare version that was only level 23 (like your Amber Mother for example), the level 23 would be counted towards your stats and not your level 25.
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Kpb321
 
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Re: Concern? re my collection stats

Postby Kpb321 » June 9th, 2014, 10:52 pm

Voskres, I didn't attack you or try to assassinate your character. I simply stated you were wrong and you are.


Voskres wrote:Since the update, the overwhelming value is on the level not the pet. 1 pet is just one pet for points but that pet has 25 levels for points. So as you can see it is more valuable to have more levels than more pets.

Each unique pet is worth a minimum of 2 points if it is a poor quality and 5 if it is rare. Leveling a pet from level 1 to 25 is worth one additional point. Please explain how 1 point is > than 2 or 5. Or from the whole collection perspective, please explain how 600 points for leveling all your unique pets to 25 is more than the 3000 points for collecting all those unique pets. Pet leveling is worth more than it used to be but (~600 points vs 100 points) it is still a much smaller portion of your total score than collecting is. As I said the collecting portion of your score is still 83% (ignoring the unavoidable leveling) and leveling is 17%. The overwhelming majority of your score is from COLLECTING not leveling.
I rare pet is going to get you 5 points at level one but at level 25 it is added into the aggregate levels of all 400-600 of your pets, meaning that each level one you have will signiigantly drop your average thus your newly awarded extra bonus levels as per the new system.

The change to the system only benifited levelers, not sheer collectors. Common wisdom will argue that everyone got the points, but the levelers got far more than the collectors did.

So you will get 5 points for a new rare pet, you will get one point for making a green into a blue, but you now get 4x the average level of all pets as extra points, which is the wall you have to climb.

This is basically all wrong. The new scoring system does not use your average pet level. It is simply .04 * your total combined pet levels. Adding an additional level 1 pet actually INCREASES the contribution to your score from pet levels by .04. Not enough that you'll likely see it change from that but in the new system adding more level 1 pets can't loose you points from the pet leveling portion of the score. Ironically, that was actually a property of the old system which was average pet level * 4 and you could actually loose a point or points by decreasing your average pet level but if that came from adding new pets it still netted to a positive change. So you are complaining about the way the old system worked while stating the new system is horrible.
I see about 175 level one pets in your collection, which means you got a LONG way to go to start raising your average level (you will need to raise about 2-3 level 1 pets to 25 to see a .1 bump in your 13.5 to a 13.6).


Yes it will take a while to increase his average pet level but it doesn't matter because if he levels 3 pets from level 1 to level 25 he'll get 3 points in the new scoring system even if his average pet level doesn't go up from 13.5 to 13.6. BTW if it takes him leveling 3 pets to raise his average from 13.5 to 13.6 it would take him 3 more level 1 pets to cause it to drop back down too.

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Voskres
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Re: Concern? re my collection stats

Postby Voskres » June 9th, 2014, 11:40 pm

Kpb321 wrote:
I see about 175 level one pets in your collection, which means you got a LONG way to go to start raising your average level (you will need to raise about 2-3 level 1 pets to 25 to see a .1 bump in your 13.5 to a 13.6).


Yes it will take a while to increase his average pet level but it doesn't matter because if he levels 3 pets from level 1 to level 25 he'll get 3 points in the new scoring system even if his average pet level doesn't go up from 13.5 to 13.6. BTW if it takes him leveling 3 pets to raise his average from 13.5 to 13.6 it would take him 3 more level 1 pets to cause it to drop back down too.


He has 463 pets and a average level of 13.6. When you take 463 * 13.6 you get 6296.8. To get to the next decimal level (13.7) you would need to have a raw score of 6343.1, or another 46.3 levels. Which, if your pet is already level 1 and he has to get 24 more levels not knowing what side of the decimal he is on (is it rounded up or down), this is, indeed, 2-3 pets (that he already has) going from level 1 to level 25.

So the statement: "you will need to raise about 2-3 level 1 pets to 25 to see a .1 bump" (at the time of posting he was 13.5 so looks like he has leveled 2 or 3 pets) is factual and correct.

Additionally, your statement telling me I am wrong because the new scoring system does not use pet average, I never said it did. To get your total pet levels, you take your pet number times your average level and that gives you your combined total pet levels. That is the number you take time .04. ... or in line form: .04(ave pet * # pet)

So you can sit and add every single pet and level if you like, however the correct and simple mathmatical way to get that number is to take 2 given numbers in a simple equation to get there, and one of those is average pet level.

Furthermore, I don't know how twice you can tell me a new rare unique pet at level 1 is not worth 5 new points when you get 2 for the number of pets and 3 for it being rare. The equation is posted in the news section. If if was green, you would get 2 points, so me saying upgrading it to blue give you an extra point is, also again, correct.

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Kpb321
 
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Re: Concern? re my collection stats

Postby Kpb321 » June 10th, 2014, 12:21 am

As I acknowledged it will take some effort to increase your average pet level but as I said it doesn't matter your score on the site will be increasing before the average changes and I never said you were wrong about that.

Please answer the simple question.

Please explain how 1 point from leveling a pet is greater than 2 to 5 for collecting it

or from the whole collection perspective

Please explain how ~600 points for leveling all your unique pets to 25 is more than the ~3000 points for collecting all those unique pets

Yes some people with less pets than you have passed up your score because they've spent more time leveling but the simple fact is that collecting is still the vast majority of the pet score.

To get your total pet levels, you take your pet number times your average level and that gives you your combined total pet levels. That is the number you take time .04. ... or in line form: .04(ave pet * # pet)


Except as far as I can tell that isn't how they do it. Go level up any combo of pets for 25 levels and re-import your collection with no other changes. Odds are good that your average wont change but your score will still go up. Or an even easier test. Cage a pet you have leveled to 25 and have a level one duplicate of and then reimport your pets. Your score will go down 1 point and your average won't change.

As far as the formula goes what is Ave Pet level any way but (total pet levels / # of pets) . So that makes it .04((total pet levels / # of pets) * # of pets) could just as easily be .04 * total pet levels and you avoid any rounding or significant digits issues.

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Breanni
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Re: Concern? re my collection stats

Postby Breanni » June 10th, 2014, 5:49 am

Voskres wrote:Since the update, the overwhelming value is on the level not the pet. 1 pet is just one pet for points but that pet has 25 levels for points. So as you can see it is more valuable to have more levels than more pets.

Voskres, I think you are confused. What you have said here is not at all accurate.

A level 1 pet is worth 2 points, regardless of it's rarity. It gets an additional point for being common; 2 points for being uncommon; 3 for being rare. It gets ONLY 1 whole point for being level 25. Not 1 point per level. So at any level below 25, it gets a fraction of a single point.

Voskres wrote:I rare pet is going to get you 5 points at level one but at level 25 it is added into the aggregate levels of all 400-600 of your pets, meaning that each level one you have will signiigantly drop your average thus your newly awarded extra bonus levels as per the new system.

Again, not correct. In this example, your rare pet that gives you 5 points will give you 6 points at level 25. At level 1 it gives you 5.04 points.

Voskres wrote:The change to the system only benifited levelers, not sheer collectors. Common wisdom will argue that everyone got the points, but the levelers got far more than the collectors did.

Yes, there is truth to this statement. But let's keep it in perspective...

Before the update, pet level account for roughly 3% maximum of your total pet score. 3 tiny percent. Now, it accounts for nearly 20%, while pet collecting and rarity account for the other 80+%.

Voskres wrote:So you will get 5 points for a new rare pet, you will get one point for making a green into a blue, but you now get 4x the average level of all pets as extra points, which is the wall you have to climb.

Again, you are confused. The old scoring system used average pet level. The new system doesn't use the average at all -- it simply multiplies the sum of all of your pet levels by 0.04 -- in other words, each level 25 pet is worth 1 point.

- - - - - - - -

That said, the topic at hand was a question asked by Hatkins621. I think Quintessence did a good job of suggesting what might be happening here with your missing level 25's in her reply.

I am locking this topic, as the original question has been answered.
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