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Ravnhawk
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Pet Score: 3615

Re: Not a fan at all

Postby Ravnhawk » June 12th, 2014, 2:06 pm

I am one that likes the new scoring system. It wasn't easy to get all my pets to level 25. Getting them all rare was not easy either it tool alot of work farming gold and stones to either buy a stone or to trade stones to get the ones I needed to stone rarifed. LOL. I was bored with raiding and wow when I got involved in pet battles. I loved collecting the pets and would farm them in the beginning. It was fun. In some case I bought form the ah on my 1st server SWC, as RNG hates me many times. I mostly bought level 1's as they were the cheapest. Being bored got me into heading out ans searching for all the wild pets. I wasn't too smart in the beginning. Mostly I didn't kow better and hadn't found this site at the time so I took the 1st pet I came a cross. Then I learned that rare pets had better stats so I went back and re-farmed all those wild pets. Now that was a pain LOL. I had all mine to level 25 and rare before I had a toon on Illidan. I buy pets on Illidan for friends and to sell on my other servers where I play toons. So I am glad the new system takes into consideration the work involved in leveling and getting all our pets to rare.

Yes pets can be bought cheaply on Illidan and other servers now,. You still have to have a toon on those servers and make gold there to buy those pets. Which is sometimes easier said then done. I do see both sides. And I'll admit I am jealous of those that were playing the game and got some pets I'll never get. Baby Blizz bear - Vampiric Batling and Spirit of Competition.

(Especially Baby Blizz Bear he's so dang cute)

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Kpb321
 
Posts: 701
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Pet Score: 3530

Re: Not a fan at all

Postby Kpb321 » June 12th, 2014, 2:30 pm

Zenon wrote:This s why I am leery of any ultimately arbitrary scoring system. When it comes down to it, any system someone will come up will be arbitrary. It is also worth noting that (to the best of my knowledge) WarcraftPets does not actively scrap armoury data, which means participation in this website and its "scoring" system is entirely voluntary, not to mention the counts can get out of date if people do not refresh it regularly. It also means any statement like "I am number #XXX on my server/world" has to be qualified with "among the people who actively use this website"

In the end, is it really that important what algorithm, if any, it uses? I like pet collection because it was just a thing you do on your time, I personally, not a fan of the battling pets, just have enough to comfortably win Celestial Tourney. I did not think it was meant to be competitive. Makes me a little bit sad seeing people get their knickers twisted up over completely made up number. Just sort the list by number of pets!


I agree that in the end any system will be arbitrary and won't be able to please everyone. Not everyone is interested in every aspect of Pet Collecting and Pet battling. Personally I've got a pretty good collection and everything level to lvl 25 but I'm not a big fan of pvp so I haven't even got the direhorn pet yet, soon maybe :o, and I'm fairly certain I'll never have the 5000 pvp wins. On the other hand I'd say that if I wanted to it would just be a long grind, much like leveling all my pets to 25. Sure being good at it makes it less of a grind but it's still a grind either way.

Even beyond that difficulty of something is completely subjective. Having the older Blizzcon/CE pets could either represent that you just happened to get them at the time which is, relatively speaking, not much effort or might indicating spending lots of real world cash on them or spending a lot of time acquiring things of value in game that could be traded for them. How do you rate the "difficultly" or "effort" spent on getting such a pet when it can be so variable and different from person to person?

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Angelwings626
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Re: Not a fan at all

Postby Angelwings626 » June 12th, 2014, 2:54 pm

I like that it pushes leveling because of the long term commitment involved.

It's easier to get all level 1's and then upgrading them.. (with the help of this site, the AH, dailies, and celestial tournament, outside world pet battles, pvp pet battles.) than it is to actually go out in the world and level the pets.

In the end, after you have them, what does one expect to do with them? Have them sit in their book as "collected" or level the pet out there and use them for the battle.

It usually even forces people to learn more about their pets especially when they are BOP. XD there are some pets I collected that I didn't care for at first...but forcing me to level it to 25, =X I did gain an attachment for the dang thing.

Whenever I look at the top pet score lists at the people , i like to look at the number of pets they have at 25. XD I'm not impressed at people who use the same 15-30 pets for all their battle needs and just happened to be able to just acquire various pets that sit in their tab for a pet score...

Besides, when you have a high number of pets and they are already upgraded, your life becomes a ton easier, all you have to do is level for a high score....

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Zenon
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Re: Not a fan at all

Postby Zenon » June 12th, 2014, 2:58 pm

Ravnhawk wrote: And I'll admit I am jealous of those that were playing the game and got some pets I'll never get. Baby Blizz bear - Vampiric Batling and Spirit of Competition.

(Especially Baby Blizz Bear he's so dang cute)


Aw, do not give up hope. I bet that what some people were thinking about iCoke pets and Chinese cats, and maybe even old Winterveil pets like Clockwork Bot! Remember, BMAH is a thing, as is RAF, and hey! Spirit Of Competition explicitly said "Spirits will become fevorous every 2 years!" Blizz dropped the ball on that though after Chinese Games, but that doesn't mean they will not bring them back in one form or another at some point!

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Kpb321
 
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Pet Score: 3530

Re: Not a fan at all

Postby Kpb321 » June 12th, 2014, 3:39 pm

Yeah you never know when blizzard will bring some of the pets back around. Selfishly I kinda hope they don't let people get the bear or Vampire bat but that's because I have them.

I really wish I had gotten a Spirit of Competition. I was playing back then and it shouldn't have been too hard I'm just not a big PVPer and it was just a flavor pet back then.

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Digem
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Re: Not a fan at all

Postby Digem » June 13th, 2014, 11:36 am

Chibimage wrote:Honestly the true test of any of this is what the pets actually do - i.e. Battle.

If we have nearly all the PvP achievements, that should count for *something.* It's harder, by far, to be good at PvP pet battling than just collect and level. If you really want to pick and choose, give extra points for the CT pets. Those were earned by PvE work as well.

Just my two cents.

This new system is arbitrary, at best, and relates nothing worthwhile anymore. And *of course* most people are going to like the new system. Leveling pets is so dead dumb easy.



If so "dumb" easy to level all of ones pets then why not do so?
It might not be "hard" but it takes work and dedication to ones pets to so shouldn't that count too?
And if one with more pets does so too his pet score will be higher than those with less pets.
Really comes down to choice does one want to highly ranked and put all the work in or not.
If one doesn't want to put the work then they don't want the high score really that simple.
You get out if something what one puts in to something .

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Kpb321
 
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Re: Not a fan at all

Postby Kpb321 » June 18th, 2014, 8:57 am

Aveia wrote:I think it'd be cool to have the breed somehow incorporated into the score as well, so that an "ideal" breed would be worth more than a "less optimal" breed (assuming the same rarity and level... and perhaps some breeds are equally valuable on certain pets). But yea, I think using a stone to make one rare or farming a rare of the right breed takes effort. Would be nice to have that reflected in the score too.


I don't know how you could ever do that as you can't define "Ideal" for any breed. Sure for a rabbit you generally want s/s so you are faster than your opponent but a p/s or h/s is better if you don't need to be s/s to be faster than your opponent. Or sometimes it depends on the moves you plan to use. A h/h blackfuse bombling is ideal for explode but p/p is much better for Armageddon.

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Maizing
 
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Re: Not a fan at all

Postby Maizing » June 18th, 2014, 2:08 pm

I hadn't realized that the scoring had changed. I guess this is why I went from rank #3 to rank #2 for my realm. I am at the point where only people who have more pets than I do are ranked higher than I am (as all of my pets are both rare and level 25). There are very few pets left that I can get as I don't have the RL$ that are required to buy most of the ones I am still missing so I expect that I can only go down in rank.

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Quintessence
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Re: Not a fan at all

Postby Quintessence » June 18th, 2014, 9:40 pm

The problem with including ideal breeds into the Pet Score is that "ideal" completely subjective. Someone can (and will) always argue for one breed as best, while another person will argue for another. Is there truly a "wrong" opinion, though? Nope. When it comes to breeds, valid points can be made for any preference. Even if it seems completely absurd to one person, it may make perfect sense to someone else.

And then there are some collectors who simply don't pay any mind to breeds at all. They are content with just collecting the pet, upgrading to rare and leveling it to max. It would be difficult to incorporate "ideal breeds" into the score without alienating a (possibly large) portion of users.

I think the Pet Score as it is now is a good compromise between collecting and battling. Each aspect is straight forward and clearly defined (number of unique pets, quality, level). It keeps things fairly simple and easy to grasp for even a new collector/battler who is looking to increase their score.
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Peanutty
 
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Pet Score: 3507

Re: Not a fan at all

Postby Peanutty » June 19th, 2014, 1:12 pm

Aveia wrote:Well, I can think of a thousand ways to determine "best" breed, but ultimately I suppose it is somewhat subjective. (Common sense, users could vote, stats for what breed most users have at 25 & rare - guessing people are more likely to put the effort into better breeds, AH stats assuming the sample size were large enough & adjusted for outliers, etc etc).


"Best breed" will always be subjective and that's why it shouldn't be a measure. Example: most players would say a S/S Flayer Youngling is the way to go for PVP and PVE but for my PVE team I chose a P/P (had to stone one) because that suits the team I was building around it.

Even finding a wild B/B rare can be hard if that's the specific breed you want - I personally like collecting a range of breeds for pets like moths. So even if B/B is the least popular that doesn't mean it is any easier to find when that is the specific thing you're looking for... you can spend just as many hours trying to find that B/B!

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Kpb321
 
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Pet Score: 3530

Re: Not a fan at all

Postby Kpb321 » June 19th, 2014, 1:47 pm

I was going to make a post about that too. Is having yout 10th S/S moth really better than having some variety in the breeds of moths you have and having a H/S or even B/B to cover those situations where that particular breed might actually be better.

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Mykro9
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Re: Not a fan at all

Postby Mykro9 » June 19th, 2014, 2:46 pm

Kpb321 wrote:I was going to make a post about that too. Is having yout 10th S/S moth really better than having some variety in the breeds of moths you have and having a H/S or even B/B to cover those situations where that particular breed might actually be better.

The worst part about breeds is that they are not 'absolute.'
Take the 4 colors of the shale hatchlings from Deepholm as an example.
The amethyst one's H/H is Health 1725, Power 260, Speed 260
The emerald one's H/H is Health 1806, Power 260, Speed 244
and the topaz one's H/H is Health 1725, Power 276, Speed 244
So, do you give the emerald one the most weight, since if you want it for survival, it will theoretically last the longest?
Then look at P/P
The amethyst one's P/P Health 1400, Power 325, Speed 260
The emerald one's P/P Health 1481, Power 325, Speed 244
The crimson one's H/P Health 1465, Power 305, Speed 260
and the topaz one's B/B Health 1481, Power 292, Speed 260
Theoretically, the P/P emerald one would be the best in this situation because of the added health at the expense of speed.
So, if I need to collect all 4 colors, how do I decide which to collect of each pet?
This is maybe a bad example, as this is not a popular style pet to use in either PvP or PvE, or maybe it is the PERFECT example, SINCE it is not popular. Why should someone have to waste time getting the 'best breed' for the highest score, if it is NEVER used? And this is compounded by the zillion rats/rabbits/roaches/moths/frogs/lizards/cats/raptors/snakes/spiders out there.

Another example: Versus the Thundering Pandaren Spirit, I used to use an H/S Fire-Proof Roach for very specific reasons. It was just fast enough to be faster than the PES, AND had enough health to survive with good RNG to get a hiss to slow Sludgy and then get 1 round of swarm in, so I could hit is hard with the next pet. Other faster roaches had wasted speed, since they died anyway, from having less health to stay alive, or less damage to kill the PES. But, does that make an H/S Fire-Proof Roach the most ideal breed, just because I found ONE use for it, in ONE tamer battle? Especially since it has both an H/H and an S/S version?

Food for thought...

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Jerebear
 
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Re: Not a fan at all

Postby Jerebear » June 19th, 2014, 8:42 pm

The other issue with breeds, is you don't necessarily want the best breed for all of your pets. There are a ton of rabbit types. It doesn't do any good to make all of them s/s. For PvE especially, having a diversity of breeds can be very handy. You might want some rabbits that are slower than S/S but still faster than a particular tamer's pet and with more power to attack (or more health...depends on the strategy).
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http://www.warcraftpets.com/community/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=8829

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Peanutty
 
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Re: Not a fan at all

Postby Peanutty » June 20th, 2014, 5:02 pm

I don't think anyone was trying to "win." :) I just wanted to show that picking breeds isn't always so cut and dry. But that's the nice thing about how pet collecting works now... you can use breeds to customize your collection so that you can pet battle in a way that suits you. Now that I'm paying more attention to breeds I too am "upgrading" for the breeds I want. I think it keeps pet collecting interesting and adds an extra, personal level of challenge.

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Wakamaru
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Pet Score: 3513

Re: Not a fan at all

Postby Wakamaru » June 20th, 2014, 6:35 pm

I think the entire point of the change to the scoring system is to more fairly rewards players for their efforts across all aspects of pets (where possible), versus just having the focus on collecting. Collecting a large number of pets certainly isn't a cake walk, but often times it's more about the amount of gold or real money a person has to spend (at least once we've reached a certain point/#) and less about time and effort. Upgrading an entire stable takes a massive amount of work and time, and likewise leveling that stable is just as daunting. I think it's an excellent idea for people who decide they want to take on these tasks to be rewarded accordingly for doing so.
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Kaix
 
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Pet Score: 2965

Re: Not a fan at all

Postby Kaix » June 30th, 2014, 10:31 pm

I agree I don't like it - http://www.warcraftpets.com/account/profiles/Daktar/ this person is ahead of me by a ton solely on avg pet level.. I have more pets, more level 25s and more rares.. I don't get it.

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