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Dread Hatchling

Discuss pet battles, strategy and theorycrafting.
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Luciandk
 
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Dread Hatchling

Postby Luciandk » March 10th, 2014, 3:16 pm

Ive finished leveling up one and its a beast.

Comming with:
337 power
244 speed
1420 life

Having the popular combo of Call Darkness and Nocturnal Strike, its pure perfection for high damage. NS hitting for 714 damage with that much power. And making VERY good use of its racial to pump up its otherwise lacking speed.


Ive also tested out Anzu's Blessing with a Treasure Goblin's Magic Sword

With Anzu's Blessing down first and swapping to Treasure Goblin, you are looking at 3x 100% chance to hit attacks with around 520+ damage. On magic vulnerable flyers, Ive seen it hit for 750-850.

Without Anzu's Blessing, Treasure Goblin hits for around 400 on normal targets, when it actually manages to hit something with the awful 75% chance to hit.


Edit: If Treasure Goblin can be bred in WoD to change to P/P, the combo should get even better.

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Poofah
 
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Re: Dread Hatchling

Postby Poofah » March 10th, 2014, 4:12 pm

Just to point out the obvious, Anzu/swap/Sword/Sword/Sword is ~1560 damage over 5 turns, or ~312 damage per turn. That's not better than just spamming Magic Sword, or most other generic slot 1 spammable attacks. Anzu's isn't worthwhile in its current form.

Also, Shadow Talons changed from UD to Flying damage, so his slot 1 choices are both flying damage now. There's nothing to distinguish Dread Hatchling from a PP crow aside from the skin, and we should be able to get PP crows from breeding.

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Luciandk
 
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Re: Dread Hatchling

Postby Luciandk » March 10th, 2014, 4:23 pm

Poofah wrote:Just to point out the obvious, Anzu/swap/Sword/Sword/Sword is ~1560 damage over 5 turns, or ~312 damage per turn. That's not better than just spamming Magic Sword, or most other generic slot 1 spammable attacks. Anzu's isn't worthwhile in its current form.

Also, Shadow Talons changed from UD to Flying damage, so his slot 1 choices are both flying damage now. There's nothing to distinguish Dread Hatchling from a PP crow aside from the skin, and we should be able to get PP crows from breeding.


Good point on Magic Sword, on the junk list then.

But Peck and Shadow Talon, one is a 100%, second is a 90% flying attack. With Call Darkness Id choose Peck as I find Shadow Talon too risky to use with 80% chance to hit.

Though I still think Dread Hatchling is on top due to its low natural speed. But perhaps, a crow bred with a P/P Yellow Moth might just outedge it with 341 power, keeping the same 244 speed, and still having 1400 hp.

But if pet breeding gets on the chopping block too, then the Dread Hatchling will remain superior.

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Poofah
 
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Re: Dread Hatchling

Postby Poofah » March 10th, 2014, 5:26 pm

You're right that we don't know the details of breeding, so it's not clear whether Dread Hatchling will be the 'best' crow that we can get.

I'm just annoyed because the precedent so far is that CE pets are not top-tier PvP pets, but they do have interesting/unique moves and/or movesets. That seems like the ideal balance, since we don't want pay-to-play, but the CE should still give you something neat.

Dread Hatchling is the opposite of that. Crow is already a PvP staple, and now Hatchling will largely replace it for anyone who pays for the CE. But in the end it's just a crow, which is very boring.

Luciandk wrote:With Call Darkness Id choose Peck as I find Shadow Talon too risky to use with 80% chance to hit.


Here's the relevant numbers:

Peck, 357 dmg 100% accuracy = 357 average dmg
Shadow Talon, 428 dmg 90% accuracy = 386 average dmg
Peck (under Darkness), 357 dmg 90% accuracy = 321 average dmg
Shadow Talon (under Darkness), 427 dmg 80% accuracy = 343 average dmg

Average damage probably isn't the most relevant though, since your damage is so front-loaded. Call Darkness is 536, Nocturnal Strike is 714, so your first two moves produce 1250 damage unless avoided. With Peck, you'd have a 90% chance to finish off any pet below 1600 health on turn 3; with Shadow Talon, it would be an 80% chance to finish off a pet below 1670 health.

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Luciandk
 
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Re: Dread Hatchling

Postby Luciandk » March 10th, 2014, 5:47 pm

Poofah wrote:You're right that we don't know the details of breeding, so it's not clear whether Dread Hatchling will be the 'best' crow that we can get.

I'm just annoyed because the precedent so far is that CE pets are not top-tier PvP pets, but they do have interesting/unique moves and/or movesets. That seems like the ideal balance, since we don't want pay-to-play, but the CE should still give you something neat.

Dread Hatchling is the opposite of that. Crow is already a PvP staple, and now Hatchling will largely replace it for anyone who pays for the CE. But in the end it's just a crow, which is very boring.

Luciandk wrote:With Call Darkness Id choose Peck as I find Shadow Talon too risky to use with 80% chance to hit.


Here's the relevant numbers:

Peck, 357 dmg 100% accuracy = 357 average dmg
Shadow Talon, 428 dmg 90% accuracy = 386 average dmg
Peck (under Darkness), 357 dmg 90% accuracy = 321 average dmg
Shadow Talon (under Darkness), 427 dmg 80% accuracy = 343 average dmg

Average damage probably isn't the most relevant though, since your damage is so front-loaded. Call Darkness is 536, Nocturnal Strike is 714, so your first two moves produce 1250 damage unless avoided. With Peck, you'd have a 90% chance to finish off any pet below 1600 health on turn 3; with Shadow Talon, it would be an 80% chance to finish off a pet below 1670 health.


Exactly my thought. Peck is a more reliable finisher.

Personally I dont mind that the Dread Hatchling is a copy of the Crow, just a better statted one. Thusly making it an useful CE pet for once. Just look at the maligned Treasure Goblin. Sure its very thematic, but underwhelming in execution.

Think Lil Deathwing is maybe the most unique and special of the CE pets. But I digress that they dont want to make the CE pets too good, or be acused of pay 2 win.

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Vek
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Re: Dread Hatchling

Postby Vek » March 18th, 2014, 12:45 pm

Not many Dread Hatchlings in my group yet, got my first whiff yesterday, yes Call Darkness + Nocturnal Strike hits insanely hard. Have you faced(or used) any interesting combinations with the Dread Hatchling, or is it mostly used as a stand alone powerful crow?

Today I have faced this opponent three times. Unborn Val'kyr, S/S DAH and Dread Hatchling(Consume Corpse, Blessing). I could almost fall asleep of boredom with these pets(except it was interesting to face the Dread Hatchling some more), at least it's more interesting to play against than 5.3 Direhorns was.

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Poofah
 
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Re: Dread Hatchling

Postby Poofah » March 18th, 2014, 4:19 pm

Vek wrote:Unborn Val'kyr, S/S DAH and Dread Hatchling(Consume Corpse, Blessing).


That's pretty cute, and probably the best way to milk Anzu's that I've seen. But again, Anzu's is not objectively powerful. So even though it combines nicely with Haunt, it doesn't necessarily produce a significant benefit. Haunt is 10 base dmg/turn, so if you combine it with Anzu's you get +2.5 base dmg over 4 turns, which is 10 additional base dmg. Add in the 3 turns of buffed damage you get for your Hatchling (+25% per turn, or 5 base dmg each turn with Peck) and you get roughly 25 base damage for the cost of a turn. That's completely underwhelming when you could spend those turns on Darkness/NocStrike instead (30 and 40 base dmg respectively).

Consume Corpse is also cute with Valk, obviously, but we already see that with Stitched Pup. And 3 turns of Howl-buffed Haunt is better damage than 4 turns of Anzu's-buffed Haunt (15 vs 10 base).

So really they've just plugged Hatchling into the Valk/DAH boilerplate. Valk/DAH are driving the power level of this team; Hatchling is just one of many possible 3rd wheels.

The primary advantage I see to Hatchling over Pup in this team is to have a strong game against Emperor Crab/Crawdad. But again you'd have a better game against these pets if you took Darkness/NocStrike.

Vek wrote:at least it's more interesting to play against than 5.3 Direhorns was.


I think Valk+CC/avoidance is worse. The CC/avoidance pets might have some variety but the tactics are always the same and very boring. The goal of the team is to impose control, prevent the opponent from doing anything, and interact with the opponent as little as possible. It's not really different from double Basilisk or triple Decoy, except it's less degenerate.

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Jerebear
 
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Re: Dread Hatchling

Postby Jerebear » March 18th, 2014, 6:06 pm

I know darkness/nocturnal is a stronger combo in a vacuum, but how does the accuracy portion of Anzu's Blessing look? I know discodoggy has been using of it on his darkness teams so his own hits don't miss under darkness. Also, any thoughts on using anzu's blessing to buff another pet's 80% accuracy ability. An extra 25% damage and bumping the accuracy up to 100% might be worth it for the stability and high burst, even if the average damage calcs don't pan out. For example, 3 guaranteed Mana Surge hits at 25% more damage might be more worthwhile than the higher damage but 80% arcane winds buffed hits.

Not sure if totally viable, but something to consider.
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Vek
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Re: Dread Hatchling

Postby Vek » March 19th, 2014, 1:31 am

Poofah wrote:Consume Corpse is also cute with Valk, obviously, but we already see that with Stitched Pup. And 3 turns of Howl-buffed Haunt is better damage than 4 turns of Anzu's-buffed Haunt (15 vs 10 base).


Not sure how Blessing works, but you can easily avoid Howl by switching.

Poofah wrote:I think Valk+CC/avoidance is worse.


There are so many ways to counter the Valk, right now I'm having fun with Rascal Bot against Valk/DAH combination. The Direhorns just had everything stacked in their favour(and still do to some extent) with AoE damage and slow(so you both get damage and can't switch, I still think that ability should only apply to active pet), and spammable priority move so you were screwed either way. Sure there were counters then too. I just feel lucky that I wasn't into pet battles during the FFF and such.


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