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Help - Suggestions on PvP team

Discuss pet battles, strategy and theorycrafting.
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Mojogrow
 
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Help - Suggestions on PvP team

Postby Mojogrow » March 10th, 2014, 11:38 am

Hi I was looking for some help in order to make a decent pet battle team and also to improve on my current team. I'm currently both new to WoW (3 months) and to pet battles so sorry if I am not up to date on everything warcraft. I am not sure if you can see my pet collection now that I signed up for this wonderful website but if you can, that might help you... help me. I can level any pet to 25 in a matter for 4-5 battles so that is not a problem, nor is getting the pets, granted they are not from SoO/ToT Normal/Heroic or promotional.

Currently, My pet team is a classic Run of the Mill Val'-Stall team comprised of an H/H Breed Val'kyr, a S/S Enchanted Broom and an S/S Bonkers from Timeless Isle. All rare naturally and leveled to 25. Using this team covers many bases such damage to critters, beasts, humanoid, dragonkin and flying, while being resistant to critters, aquatics and dragonkin. This Team usually counters Darkness teams, Tank teams, most idol teams I know, Clonedancer/Clonepiggies teams.

Basic rotation (unless a better opportunity presents itself) I use is to start with the valk, assess the health of the enemy and open with curse and haunt. Since I am H/H I can take the 2 hits and not go down. Now, If the enemy has over 1600 health (or is resistant to Undead/Magic), I bring out Broom and batter him for one turn and then push him away with Sweep, else I just use sweep. This should eliminate 1 enemy straight away. Next I either stay broom and keep battering if it's a flyer/beast, Switch to Bonkers if it's anything else and wait until foe No.1 is dead and valk is back. Rinse and repeat. Bonkers is mainly there as backup should all else fail.

Main counters to this team are teams of higher/equal speed such as S/S rabbits, frogs and imps, Undead Full teams (Scourged Whelp, Senjin, Spirit Crab are what has foiled me before) and Dot Teams (due to the amount of switching I have to do sometimes).

Any suggestions on how to improve my team or any ideas for new teams I could try? I do not own ANY promo pets or iTCG pets, as well as access very few new raid pets(my gear is bad and I should feel bad(V)(;,,;)(V)), so my options are quite limited.

Please excuse the random caps, as my computer is very buggy with it's autocorrect.

Mojogrow-Eitrigg

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Mojogrow
 
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Re: Help - Suggestions on PvP team

Postby Mojogrow » March 10th, 2014, 11:40 am

Tl;DR Plz help, need suggest for Valk team alternative lolkty!

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Re: Help - Suggestions on PvP team

Postby Durwin » March 10th, 2014, 12:00 pm

I like to use a S/S Death adder to negate damage and add another DoT to the val'kyrs haunt. If you don't have one of those the fiendish imp works well to send the cursed pet to the back. Those are my two favorite pets to use. I hope this helped and good luck! :)

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Re: Help - Suggestions on PvP team

Postby Mojogrow » March 10th, 2014, 1:53 pm

Thanks! I'd give it a try, but I have yet to see either of those on the AH for less than 5k...

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Re: Help - Suggestions on PvP team

Postby Durwin » March 10th, 2014, 2:16 pm

The fiendish imp comes from Karazhan and can be soloed. The adder is harder to get but is well worth it. If you cant spare the gold a few runs of Kara might be worth your time. The crawling claw works well as a swap pet too but is more expensive. If you are into archaeology you can get it from there. I think your team is pretty good overall but if you are having lots of trouble with counter teams you may need to switch it up. Good luck :)

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Re: Help - Suggestions on PvP team

Postby 3wd » March 10th, 2014, 3:30 pm

Mojogrow wrote:Tl;DR Plz help, need suggest for Valk team alternative lolkty!


First of all, a H/H valk is not as good as a B/B valk, especially when your valk is going to fight against the other valk, so I will suggest you get a B/B valk first.

Then as someone mentioned, a 341 speed DAH is a very good pet to team up with the valk, so that will be next choice.

As for the 3rd pet, ideally it will be a Qiraji Guardling but I am sure you won't have one in this season, so you may consider either a 325 bonker or a 325 spirit dragon or something along the line.

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Maleric
 
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Re: Help - Suggestions on PvP team

Postby Maleric » March 10th, 2014, 7:45 pm

3wd wrote:
Mojogrow wrote:Tl;DR Plz help, need suggest for Valk team alternative lolkty!


First of all, a H/H valk is not as good as a B/B valk, especially when your valk is going to fight against the other valk, so I will suggest you get a B/B valk first.

Then as someone mentioned, a 341 speed DAH is a very good pet to team up with the valk, so that will be next choice.

As for the 3rd pet, ideally it will be a Qiraji Guardling but I am sure you won't have one in this season, so you may consider either a 325 bonker or a 325 spirit dragon or something along the line.


Sandstorm doesn't combine well with either haunt or poison fang. You might pick up some wins with valk/DAH/guardling because all three pets are individually strong, but the comp lacks synergy.

If you want a fast humanoid that combines well with valk, the speed breeds of fiendish imp, bonkers, and peddlefeet are all OK choices. I'd suggest in particular the fiendish imp, since then you'd have another swap ability and could dump the broom for something better against your counters; P/P emperor crab or magical crawdad, for examples.

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Re: Help - Suggestions on PvP team

Postby Mojogrow » March 11th, 2014, 8:54 am

3wd wrote:First of all, a H/H valk is not as good as a B/B valk, especially when your valk is going to fight against the other valk, so I will suggest you get a B/B valk first.

Then as someone mentioned, a 341 speed DAH is a very good pet to team up with the valk, so that will be next choice.

As for the 3rd pet, ideally it will be a Qiraji Guardling but I am sure you won't have one in this season, so you may consider either a 325 bonker or a 325 spirit dragon or something along the line.


The way I see it, B/B Valk is only better IF you are fighting another Val'k team, because, lets face it, 244 speed isn't going to outmatch any other opener. Speed is a funny thing, as in it is a completely useless and wasted stat if it isn't higher than the opponent. Add to that the fact that you are losing stats due to the 15/20 points that B/B gives to stats, you end up only using 5 extra strength in exchange for 15 points to health. Also, if we both are using B/B Val'ks, there's still a good chance he will go first anyways, making the wasted stats even more wasted.

That being said, I already saw your post on the Strongest Battle Pets Team, and the arguments for/against it and I do love it, personally. DAH is a great pet, but at the moment I am stuck with a P/P breed which in this team does not serve the purpose I want of it. As Maleric said, I would probably sub the Guardling for Peddlefeet, due to the same speed, Insta-stun and attack, but subbing the weather effect for a wind-up.

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Re: Help - Suggestions on PvP team

Postby Kring » March 11th, 2014, 9:53 am

Mojogrow wrote:The way I see it, B/B Valk is only better IF you are fighting another Val'k team, because, lets face it, 244 speed isn't going to outmatch any other opener.


Snarly is 244 too. Which means I can conveniently Rip - BitW a H/H CoD - Haunt Val'Kyr. With a B/B Val'Kyr I have to Rip - Surge or gamble.

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Re: Help - Suggestions on PvP team

Postby Durwin » March 11th, 2014, 10:37 am

Kring wrote:
Mojogrow wrote:The way I see it, B/B Valk is only better IF you are fighting another Val'k team, because, lets face it, 244 speed isn't going to outmatch any other opener.


Snarly is 244 too. Which means I can conveniently Rip - BitW a H/H CoD - Haunt Val'Kyr. With a B/B Val'Kyr I have to Rip - Surge or gamble.


Not very many people use a Snarly in pet battles. The H/H valk is better overall because it can take more hits and haunt more than a B/B valk.

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Re: Help - Suggestions on PvP team

Postby 3wd » March 11th, 2014, 10:45 am

Maleric wrote:
Sandstorm doesn't combine well with either haunt or poison fang. You might pick up some wins with valk/DAH/guardling because all three pets are individually strong, but the comp lacks synergy.

If you want a fast humanoid that combines well with valk, the speed breeds of fiendish imp, bonkers, and peddlefeet are all OK choices. I'd suggest in particular the fiendish imp, since then you'd have another swap ability and could dump the broom for something better against your counters; P/P emperor crab or magical crawdad, for examples.


You are missing the point, actually sandstorm is the perfect synergy for a valk team.

They key of the valk team is haunt, and what is the biggest enemy of a valk? Aqua pet, because haunt is a dot and its also weak against aqua pet. If your opponent will have a crawdad (using shield), your valk will look like a joke against him.

With the guardling, basically the sandstorm will protect you from the aqua pet, and not only that, if your opponent will use dot, the sandstorm can also protect your valk later when she will get up from the backrow.

Your sandstorm can be used as a weather changer to break your opponent's plan.

Plus the most important fact, the guardling has a kick stun skill and with 325 speed, this is vastly superior than the same speed bonker's evasion. When your bonker will use the evasion, you can only delay 2 rounds and you can not link it to the DAH for the double damage.

Say if your team will be a valk / DAH / Bonker, the best rotation you can do will be :

round 1 : COD or direct haunt
round 2 : DAH blind
round 3 : switch to bonker
round 4 : evasion
round 5 : bonker attack - tornado punch 420 dmg, 95% hit
You are not going to kill a 1400 HP pet with this rotation. And more importantly, your opponent is not losing any rounds during round 2-5, they can still do other actions than direct attack.

If you use the the valk / DAH / guardling combo,
round 1 : haunt
round 2 : guardling kick
round 3 : switch to DAH, your opponent still in stun
round 4 : DAH blind
round 5 : DAH puncture, 560 dmg
Yes you can kill a 1400-1465 HP pet, and your opponent can not do anything in round 2-3.

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Re: Help - Suggestions on PvP team

Postby 3wd » March 11th, 2014, 10:56 am

Mojogrow wrote:
The way I see it, B/B Valk is only better IF you are fighting another Val'k team, because, lets face it, 244 speed isn't going to outmatch any other opener.


Other than the H/H valk you will be facing, facing an idol will also give you a bit more advantage (especially before the hotfix when Demolish is so strong), and there are a bunch of dragons are in 244 or lower speed range, lots of the undead pets are 244 or under.

But still the key remains of course its a counter to the H/H valk.

When a H/H valk will be facing a B/B valk, no matter what I will do, the H/H valk will be always in a very bad situation.

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Re: Help - Suggestions on PvP team

Postby Maleric » March 11th, 2014, 6:53 pm

3wd wrote:
Maleric wrote:You are missing the point, actually sandstorm is the perfect synergy for a valk team.

They key of the valk team is haunt, and what is the biggest enemy of a valk? Aqua pet, because haunt is a dot and its also weak against aqua pet. If your opponent will have a crawdad (using shield), your valk will look like a joke against him.

With the guardling, basically the sandstorm will protect you from the aqua pet, and not only that, if your opponent will use dot, the sandstorm can also protect your valk later when she will get up from the backrow.

Your sandstorm can be used as a weather changer to break your opponent's plan.

Plus the most important fact, the guardling has a kick stun skill and with 325 speed, this is vastly superior than the same speed bonker's evasion. When your bonker will use the evasion, you can only delay 2 rounds and you can not link it to the DAH for the double damage.


If you're that worried about aquatics, there are ways to counter them that don't also counter your own haunt and poison fang. Same goes for weather swaps and stuns. While there may not be another pet that brings all three of those, I think there are probably multiple pets that bring at least two and that do not have negative synergy with the rest of your team.

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Re: Help - Suggestions on PvP team

Postby Mojogrow » March 12th, 2014, 10:53 am

3wd wrote:Other than the H/H valk you will be facing, facing an idol will also give you a bit more advantage (especially before the hotfix when Demolish is so strong), and there are a bunch of dragons are in 244 or lower speed range, lots of the undead pets are 244 or under.

But still the key remains of course its a counter to the H/H valk.

When a H/H valk will be facing a B/B valk, no matter what I will do, the H/H valk will be always in a very bad situation.


What I am saying though, is that as an opponent seeing a Val'k team, You either come out with your Val'k or take your fastest pet to try and get a hit or 2 in. And even if after that you might end up haunting again on a slower pet, I usually prefer using Val'k as a meat shield instead of a *possible* dodge. With pets that have 341, 325, or even 306 Speed, you are safe to assume that you will be faster than most, but I am simply not seeing the benefit for sacrificing ~350 health for a small chance at being faster than the enemy, and a 50/50 gamble at being faster than his B/B Val'k.

Also, your Guardling is a counter to your own team. To run your version of the Val'k team, it is required to have a stun/speed pet. The ONLY Benefit it brings above other Speed/disable pets, like Peddlefeet, is the Weather effect to counter that other weather teams... WHICH IS EXTREMELY NEEDED ATM since everyone is running darkness teams with their "OMG-OP" Dread hatchling, Pandaren Monk, Ghostly Skull teams.

That said there are other pets to put in those 2 spots. Fiendish Imp/Magic Crawdad work well as that spot. Same for Broom/Bonkers (Though it isn't all that great, so I asked for suggestions on others), Pandaren Water Spirit/Chrominius (SUPER-MEGA-LAZOR-HOWL-BOMB) or even Crawling Claw/SS Rabbit, just to name a few.

I really LOVE all the feedback and comments I am getting, and this is really helping me get better at understanding Strats and Tactics that other people use! Thanks so much for the help thus far :D!!

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Re: Help - Suggestions on PvP team

Postby Mwebly » March 12th, 2014, 1:47 pm

Mojogrow wrote:What I am saying though, is that as an opponent seeing a Val'k team, You either come out with your Val'k or take your fastest pet to try and get a hit or 2 in. And even if after that you might end up haunting again on a slower pet, I usually prefer using Val'k as a meat shield instead of a *possible* dodge. With pets that have 341, 325, or even 306 Speed, you are safe to assume that you will be faster than most, but I am simply not seeing the benefit for sacrificing ~350 health for a small chance at being faster than the enemy, and a 50/50 gamble at being faster than his B/B Val'k.

Also, your Guardling is a counter to your own team. To run your version of the Val'k team, it is required to have a stun/speed pet. The ONLY Benefit it brings above other Speed/disable pets, like Peddlefeet, is the Weather effect to counter that other weather teams... WHICH IS EXTREMELY NEEDED ATM since everyone is running darkness teams with their "OMG-OP" Dread hatchling, Pandaren Monk, Ghostly Skull teams.

That said there are other pets to put in those 2 spots. Fiendish Imp/Magic Crawdad work well as that spot. Same for Broom/Bonkers (Though it isn't all that great, so I asked for suggestions on others), Pandaren Water Spirit/Chrominius (SUPER-MEGA-LAZOR-HOWL-BOMB) or even Crawling Claw/SS Rabbit, just to name a few.

I really LOVE all the feedback and comments I am getting, and this is really helping me get better at understanding Strats and Tactics that other people use! Thanks so much for the help thus far :D!!


I would look carefully at how you are using your Valk. Without a doubt Doom/Haunt is the most powerful dmg/cast currently in the meta because the pet casting it can then hide for the 4 successive rounds and gets a free pet swap thrown in for good measure. Can the Valk tank effectively? Sure. Are there pets that can cause higher damage in 2 casts? Sure. But that combination is what made the Valk into the rock-star that she is. Using her in any other way does not make the best use of her talents.

They synergy between the Valk/DAH/Guardling is one of the most powerful I have found in the dozens of pvp teams I have played. Yes these pets are strong on their own but as 3wd indicated in his post above and in the extensive discussion thread http://www.warcraftpets.com/community/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=9154. The real secret of the Valk is the repeated use of Haunt and then preventing your opponent from doing anything for 4 rounds, rinse and repeat.

Sandstorm does not fit into the regular rotation unless needed as a weather changer or to mitigate strong dots. I have won countless battles with this team and many will attribute that to the individual power of the pets it contains. Fair enough, they are strong standing alone. But they can be insanely powerful if played correctly.

A lot of people discount this team because they can see it's weaknesses and find a counter. The problem I have noticed is that those counters do not make for strong teams that can face a wide range of opponents. No team is perfect, but this one is really hard to beat on the open market. I have played this team almost exclusively for the past 5 weeks and have gone 350-12 since. That's about one loss every 30 games!

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Re: Help - Suggestions on PvP team

Postby Mojogrow » March 13th, 2014, 12:33 pm

So a better question would be, what is a good counter team to Val'k, DAH, Guardling/Peddle(Which I prefer *for now*[Summer-only sucks], although it does lack Weather, it also has a 95% hit move, and my experience with Crush has been hit or miss [Pun intended])? By this I mean that it DOES have a decent chance at beating "The Best Team Ever" above and still is viable and decent against a random team (As in it covers the bases of each other's weaknesses, is good against a variety.


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