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Fix Anubisath Idol!

Discuss pet battles, strategy and theorycrafting.
Hootstwo
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Fix Anubisath Idol!

Postby Hootstwo » February 19th, 2014, 12:28 pm

Why oh why doesn't blizzard fix Anub. It's ridiculous in its ability to hit regardless of the situation it's facing. I just had blinding poison on it while Sandstorm was up, which means it should be insanely impossible for it to hit anything then - BANG - demolish or 700+. FIX THIS DAMMIT!

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Luciandk
 
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Re: Fix Anubisath Idol!

Postby Luciandk » February 19th, 2014, 12:37 pm

Hootstwo wrote:Why oh why doesn't blizzard fix Anub. It's ridiculous in its ability to hit regardless of the situation it's facing. I just had blinding poison on it while Sandstorm was up, which means it should be insanely impossible for it to hit anything then - BANG - demolish or 700+. FIX THIS DAMMIT!


Its a known set of bugs. Warcraftpets cant do anything about it, You should use the ingame bug reporting tool. The more they get from different players the more they might take it seriously.

Hootstwo
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Re: Fix Anubisath Idol!

Postby Hootstwo » February 19th, 2014, 12:49 pm

Luciandk wrote:
Hootstwo wrote:Why oh why doesn't blizzard fix Anub. It's ridiculous in its ability to hit regardless of the situation it's facing. I just had blinding poison on it while Sandstorm was up, which means it should be insanely impossible for it to hit anything then - BANG - demolish or 700+. FIX THIS DAMMIT!


Its a known set of bugs. Warcraftpets cant do anything about it, You should use the ingame bug reporting tool. The more they get from different players the more they might take it seriously.

Oh, I know Warcraftpets can't do anything, I just wanted to vent. This bug has been around for quite some time, I'm just incensed that they don't do something about it.

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Kendrah
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Re: Fix Anubisath Idol!

Postby Kendrah » February 19th, 2014, 6:32 pm

Hootstwo wrote:Why oh why doesn't blizzard fix Anub. It's ridiculous in its ability to hit regardless of the situation it's facing. I just had blinding poison on it while Sandstorm was up, which means it should be insanely impossible for it to hit anything then - BANG - demolish or 700+. FIX THIS DAMMIT!


Did the poison actually hit? Sandstorm does reduce accuracy. Or maybe it's that whole negative hit chance that lets it hit?

Hootstwo
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Re: Fix Anubisath Idol!

Postby Hootstwo » February 19th, 2014, 7:55 pm

Oh, it absolutely hits. I've had Anub hit me at least 4 times now (I've screen capped a few of them) immediately following the hit with Blinding Poison.

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Digem
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Re: Fix Anubisath Idol!

Postby Digem » February 20th, 2014, 7:58 am

I can confirm the op post.
I have had an idol blinded they have sandstorm up which negates any poison dots on them but still hit me with demolish.
Which is suppose to hit at 50 percent base you add blinding poison and sandstorm it should never hit but does.
Heck I miss with 100 percent moves in sandstorm but demolish keeps on hitting

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Memnochlv
 
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Re: Fix Anubisath Idol!

Postby Memnochlv » February 20th, 2014, 10:18 am

Is this just the demolish ability? I ask because when I use crush (80% hit, 70% during sandstorm) and not counting blinding poison, it hits so infrequently (I use an addon to track all pet ability hit/miss %s and it hits less then 40% of the time out of thousands of samples). I almost never use demolish because with an even lower hit % I figure why bother?

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Tuatha
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Re: Fix Anubisath Idol!

Postby Tuatha » February 20th, 2014, 10:34 am

Memnochlv wrote:Is this just the demolish ability? I ask because when I use crush (80% hit, 70% during sandstorm) and not counting blinding poison, it hits so infrequently (I use an addon to track all pet ability hit/miss %s and it hits less then 40% of the time out of thousands of samples). I almost never use demolish because with an even lower hit % I figure why bother?

The binge of Demolish users is the 70-75% hit rate people have logged since 5.4.

The theory on hitting through Blinding Poison, afaik, has to do with negative hit results being used by pet battles as a positive. So your 70% to hit drops to -30% with Blinding Poison, but in practice you have a 30% chance to hit. I don't think that's universally accepted, but it's a theory I've seen that could explain hitting through Blinding Poison.

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Re: Fix Anubisath Idol!

Postby Poofah » February 20th, 2014, 2:35 pm

Memnochlv wrote:Is this just the demolish ability? I ask because when I use crush (80% hit, 70% during sandstorm) and not counting blinding poison, it hits so infrequently (I use an addon to track all pet ability hit/miss %s and it hits less then 40% of the time out of thousands of samples). I almost never use demolish because with an even lower hit % I figure why bother?


That's very interesting, because people have reported Demolish hitting at ~75% accuracy since 5.4 (at least). That also applies to Belly Slide, the other spammable 50% accuracy move, which is also currently ~75%. But this is the first time I've heard about Crush hitting in the ~40-50% range. I wonder if they mistakenly swapped the accuracy on these abilities? They certainly didn't swap the damage numbers, which makes Demolish way overtuned.

The other 80% spammable moves are Tail Slap, Spirit Claws, and Steam Vent. I haven't noticed these hitting below normal rates, but I don't have a ton of data for that. And ofc I never see Crush get used because Demolish is so much better now, so I have no idea how often it hits...

Tuatha wrote:The theory on hitting through Blinding Poison, afaik, has to do with negative hit results being used by pet battles as a positive.


Yes, this is pure speculation. So far the evidence that I've personally seen is consistent with this, but it certainly doesn't exclude other possibilities. Mainly: 1) in PvP, my snake has never been hit by a blinded opponent using a 100% accuracy attack, with a very large sample size; and 2) my snake routinely gets hit with non-100% moves by blinded opponents, in both PvP and by tamer pets (Rampage vs Major Payne, Demolish in PvP, etc etc). But I've also seen at least one screenshot where a DAH got hit by a blinded opponent using Sandstorm, and also Ion Cannon, which are 100% moves. So unless other buffs/debuffs or some other bug or 'feature' were involved, the negative accuracy theory can't explain those.

I would love to get more data on this, but it's a nightmare to test. I have never been able to recreate the blinded Sandstorm/Ion Cannon hits. And often, when a blinded opponent hits, it can be explained by other semi-related bugs or features. Ie, some multi-hit moves ignore accuracy debuffs after the first hit (e.g. Mothballs, Blessed Hammer), and 'always hits' moves such as Blood in the Water/Nocturnal Strike/Spirit Claws routinely hit through Blinding Poison (I think this is because they are coded to be 200% accuracy like Laser, but again this is hard to prove).

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Harpua
 
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Re: Fix Anubisath Idol!

Postby Harpua » February 20th, 2014, 9:22 pm

I dunno. After being bathed in Blinding Poison the last few weeks, anything that makes a Death Adder wielder mad makes me giggle.

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Quintessence
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Re: Fix Anubisath Idol!

Postby Quintessence » February 20th, 2014, 11:11 pm

Some recent Tweets regarding Demolish from LeCraft:

"The high hit rate on Demolish is part of an intended system to prevent miss streaks. It's just too effective on high miss chance abilities." - 20 Feb 2014

"It's hitting at ~65% accuracy right now." - 20 Feb 2014
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Ligre
 
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Re: Fix Anubisath Idol!

Postby Ligre » February 20th, 2014, 11:27 pm

Lol. They really think we know nothing, don't they?

If the actual intended % is 65, then the ability needs to take a damage nerf. Just cuz they want to "prevent miss streaks" doesn't mean that anything and everything it hits has to die in 3 turns of it. Such garbage...

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Luciandk
 
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Re: Fix Anubisath Idol!

Postby Luciandk » February 21st, 2014, 5:26 am

Quintessence wrote:Some recent Tweets regarding Demolish from LeCraft:

"The high hit rate on Demolish is part of an intended system to prevent miss streaks. It's just too effective on high miss chance abilities." - 20 Feb 2014

"It's hitting at ~65% accuracy right now." - 20 Feb 2014


Huh, now thats a suprising change. I wonder if the misstreak protection is actually whats breaking Blinding Poison..

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Genome
 
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Re: Fix Anubisath Idol!

Postby Genome » February 21st, 2014, 6:11 am

Quintessence wrote:Some recent Tweets regarding Demolish from LeCraft:

"The high hit rate on Demolish is part of an intended system to prevent miss streaks. It's just too effective on high miss chance abilities." - 20 Feb 2014

"It's hitting at ~65% accuracy right now." - 20 Feb 2014


Interesting, and fairly ludicrous to be honest. The easiest way to prevent "miss streaks" would be to have an ability in the same slot that does less dmg but is more accurate. Last I checked, Crush meets these requirements....

The very nature of abilities like Demolish is the "High Risk, High Reward" aspect. Take the risk out of it, and it is only a reward for taking the ability. As is, there is little to no reason whatsoever to use Crush. Is Blizzard saying that pet battlers are so fragile in emotional makeup that we cannot handle occasional back-to-back misses? Seems patronizing to me.

At the end of the day, this gives the Idol a huge advantage over most every other pet. You take one of, if not the best defensive pets in the game (Sandstorm does big dmg, neutralizes whole DoT teams for it's entire party and reduces accuracy for everything but itself and the occasional Elemental, and can even juke big nukes/traps/setups if it runs with Deflection along with the Humanoid racial and huge health pool) and also give it one of the hardest-hitting spammable attacks in the game with the accuracy drawback removed and what do you expect? Yep, you have created a monster. And it seems that this monster is safe for the indefinite future.

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Re: Fix Anubisath Idol!

Postby Luciandk » February 21st, 2014, 6:37 am

Considering the nearly consistent whining about misses on the official forums, I can easilly see why they caved in. But as you said, its created a monster that really can milk Demolish thanks to its defensive power.

Its sad when people cave in to the entitlement generation wanting satisfaction here and NOW!

And i still hold on its the miss streak protection thats breaking blinding poison. Though I do wonder how much it effectively devalues -hit abilities.

But once word about it gets out, Id hazard that we will see a massive upsurge of idols in the pvp metagame.

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Digem
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Re: Fix Anubisath Idol!

Postby Digem » February 21st, 2014, 7:04 am

Well if this the case they have to do one of two things:
A) if they keep move spamable lower its damage done.
B) give it a few round cooldowns like blood inthe water and nocturnal strike.

How can they think leaving it as is will be ok?
Can't have a supposed high risk / high reward move hit at a good hit rate to avoid miss streaks and be spamable.
Do they never ever think of the consequences when they do these things?
It isn't that hard to see.

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Re: Fix Anubisath Idol!

Postby Jerebear » February 21st, 2014, 8:05 am

Luciandk wrote:Considering the nearly consistent whining about misses on the official forums, I can easilly see why they caved in. But as you said, its created a monster that really can milk Demolish thanks to its defensive power.

Its sad when people cave in to the entitlement generation wanting satisfaction here and NOW!

And i still hold on its the miss streak protection thats breaking blinding poison. Though I do wonder how much it effectively devalues -hit abilities.

But once word about it gets out, Id hazard that we will see a massive upsurge of idols in the pvp metagame.


They claimed to have fixed how blinding poison works against demolish:

https://twitter.com/TheCrafticus/status ... 9464007680
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Luciandk
 
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Re: Fix Anubisath Idol!

Postby Luciandk » February 21st, 2014, 8:43 am

Jerebear wrote:
Luciandk wrote:Considering the nearly consistent whining about misses on the official forums, I can easilly see why they caved in. But as you said, its created a monster that really can milk Demolish thanks to its defensive power.

Its sad when people cave in to the entitlement generation wanting satisfaction here and NOW!

And i still hold on its the miss streak protection thats breaking blinding poison. Though I do wonder how much it effectively devalues -hit abilities.

But once word about it gets out, Id hazard that we will see a massive upsurge of idols in the pvp metagame.


They claimed to have fixed how blinding poison works against demolish:

https://twitter.com/TheCrafticus/status ... 9464007680


Interesting. Seems theyve finally gotten around to fix the most eregrious issues. There was a hotfix to deal with the elemental sandstorm issue too.

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Re: Fix Anubisath Idol!

Postby Poofah » February 21st, 2014, 9:30 am

When is this hotfix supposed to be? As of now, elementals are still not getting any shield effect from Sandstorm.

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Re: Fix Anubisath Idol!

Postby 3wd » February 21st, 2014, 10:50 am

Jerebear wrote:
Luciandk wrote:Considering the nearly consistent whining about misses on the official forums, I can easilly see why they caved in. But as you said, its created a monster that really can milk Demolish thanks to its defensive power.

Its sad when people cave in to the entitlement generation wanting satisfaction here and NOW!

And i still hold on its the miss streak protection thats breaking blinding poison. Though I do wonder how much it effectively devalues -hit abilities.

But once word about it gets out, Id hazard that we will see a massive upsurge of idols in the pvp metagame.


They claimed to have fixed how blinding poison works against demolish:

https://twitter.com/TheCrafticus/status ... 9464007680


Just see this after I made another post.

Anyhow, many players tested and found the blind/hit bug still exist.

This patch is a mess.

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