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Bigger, Faster, Stronger. What pets to improve in WoD

Discuss pet battles, strategy and theorycrafting.
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Luciandk
 
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Bigger, Faster, Stronger. What pets to improve in WoD

Postby Luciandk » February 7th, 2014, 10:56 pm

Ive been thinking about what to do to prepare for WoD, petwise. So it strikes me it could be a good idea to have a discussion about what pets that could really use a different breed to be significantly improved, and a suggestion for an easy pet to find pet to use to fuel their change.


Son of Animus, a popular and powerful P/P mechanical pet. Being a fairly slow pet, SoA is fairly unable to make easy use of his secondary ability set which really wants a speedy breed for best useage.

Batter, Touch of the Animus and Interupting Jolt/Extra Plating. Extra Plating in particular becomes a quite strong defensive ability when you are faster than your opponent and can land it before they strike. And coupled with Batter+Touch of The Animus, youd become even better at staying alive compared to the P/P Animus.

For fueling his transformation to an S/S Son of Animus, a Lil' Bling would be an ideal choice, given the sheer abundance of it. But if you also get the stat allocation of the fused pet, then you would be even better served with an S/S Cogblade Raptor to reach 341 speed. The lower health wont matter as much with your innate healing provess.


Zao is one of the pets that really screams to be improved to H/H for obvious reasons. A H/H clefthoof from Nagrand should be a suitable source to fix that problem.


Living Fluid and Viscous Horror i would want to see both improved to P/P, and a Jade Oozeling is the only easy answer to that.


Willy really wants to be S/S to make better use of his abilities. But enchanted broom and nordrassil wisp appears to be the only S/S magic pets. The wisp capping out at 357 speed.



Any thoughts of other pets that REALLY would do better with another breed, and suitable pets with a desirable breed that is easy to aquire?

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Re: Bigger, Faster, Stronger. What pets to improve in WoD

Postby Liopleurodon » February 8th, 2014, 12:11 am

I'm just making, like, everything P/P. Specifically, I'm really curious about making my Scourged Whelpling P/P. Due to the 'only within that family' restriction, I'm not sure that's an option. I plan on making my Cogblade Raptor S/S too. I'd like P/S but being fast is fairly crucial to the Raptor's success and I'm pretty sure everyone is making everything S/S for PVP. Hyperbole, but only just.
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Re: Bigger, Faster, Stronger. What pets to improve in WoD

Postby Poofah » February 8th, 2014, 2:42 am

SS Willy would be pretty decent. Here's a few others off the cuff:

PP Blossoming Ancient
PP Clockwork Gnome
PP Pandaren Water Spirit
SS Scalded Basilisk Hatchling
SS Infinite Whelpling
SS Tiny Snowman
SS Wolpertinger

Regarding Son of Animus, Touch of the Animus scales with power (it heals for 10 base damage per hit, ie 0.5*(20+pwr) ), so you'd gain some with the extra swing of Batter but lose some with the smaller heals (PP heals 173 per hit, SS heals 140 per hit).

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Re: Bigger, Faster, Stronger. What pets to improve in WoD

Postby Luciandk » February 8th, 2014, 6:27 am

Poofah wrote:SS Willy would be pretty decent. Here's a few others off the cuff:

PP Blossoming Ancient
PP Clockwork Gnome
PP Pandaren Water Spirit
SS Scalded Basilisk Hatchling
SS Infinite Whelpling
SS Tiny Snowman
SS Wolpertinger

Regarding Son of Animus, Touch of the Animus scales with power (it heals for 10 base damage per hit, ie 0.5*(20+pwr) ), so you'd gain some with the extra swing of Batter but lose some with the smaller heals (PP heals 173 per hit, SS heals 140 per hit).


Overall SoA would hit more and gain more heals per batter if S/S. Since you need to be reliably faster to get the extra batter, so an S/S would alway have more yield out of it. Touch of the animus really shines with a multihit ability, something you cant reliably rely on as P/P. Plus having longer cd than Siphon Anima, you really want to milk it to the fullest to get all the healing possible from it. Which you imo cant as a P/P Animus.


Hrm, I agree about Blossoming Ancient and Pandaren Water spirit as P/P elements, both would be a lot better for it. The easiest P/P to find is probably a Crimson Geode in Deepholm. Elsewise you would have to sacrifice a Gooey Shaling or droplet of Yshaarj as PP is rare among elementals.

Yeah, I can see why an Infinite Whelpling really wants to be S/S, would turn it into a pvp monster thanks to sleeping gas spam and dragonkin racial. Silver Dragonhawk Hatchling or Nether Faeire Dragon appears to be the only worthwhile S/S choices among dragonkin. Though I think an SS scalded hatchling would be far better at PvP thanks to its nasty movement, depending on if you get the stat allocation of your fused target you might want to go with one of the 341 speed felines.

To Liopleurodon: Are you aware that the Cogblade Raptor already comes in a speedy S/S variant? Personally I think the Scourged Whelpling is ideal as H/H, due to its role as a damage sponge. Lay down Death and Decay, and Plagued Blood while you spam Tail Slap. Plagued Blood procs from each tick of DnD, as well both hits of Tail Slap, which quickly starts to add up while the opponent tries to whittle down your meaty 1800ish hp.

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Re: Bigger, Faster, Stronger. What pets to improve in WoD

Postby Liopleurodon » February 8th, 2014, 1:52 pm

Luciandk wrote:To Liopleurodon: Are you aware that the Cogblade Raptor already comes in a speedy S/S variant?

Um, let's rewind & pretend I said Clockwork Gnome with Blitz, which is (honest to god!) what I intended (see below). Though it will be interesting to see whether it's a better idea to farm up a specific breed + stone or just breed to get one come Warlords. I'm really curious about the mechanics here, but then I'm pretty sure everyone is.

Personally I think the Scourged Whelpling is ideal as H/H, due to its role as a damage sponge. Lay down Death and Decay, and Plagued Blood while you spam Tail Slap. Plagued Blood procs from each tick of DnD, as well both hits of Tail Slap, which quickly starts to add up while the opponent tries to whittle down your meaty 1800ish hp.

I thought the amount healed per hit was modified by the power stat, and I tend to use mine in combo with my gnome. The S/S Gnome with (presumably) 2+ hits on Blitz plus the 3 per turret makes for a really nice tank option. Though, I can't lay hands on the formula for Plagued Blood heal just now, so the difference might not be noticeable until the match runs a ludicrous number of turns. I'm crossing my fingers I get to try it out on beta before I ruin my real pets, heh.
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Re: Bigger, Faster, Stronger. What pets to improve in WoD

Postby Luciandk » February 8th, 2014, 4:20 pm

Liopleurodon wrote:
Luciandk wrote:To Liopleurodon: Are you aware that the Cogblade Raptor already comes in a speedy S/S variant?

Um, let's rewind & pretend I said Clockwork Gnome with Blitz, which is (honest to god!) what I intended (see below). Though it will be interesting to see whether it's a better idea to farm up a specific breed + stone or just breed to get one come Warlords. I'm really curious about the mechanics here, but then I'm pretty sure everyone is.

Personally I think the Scourged Whelpling is ideal as H/H, due to its role as a damage sponge. Lay down Death and Decay, and Plagued Blood while you spam Tail Slap. Plagued Blood procs from each tick of DnD, as well both hits of Tail Slap, which quickly starts to add up while the opponent tries to whittle down your meaty 1800ish hp.

I thought the amount healed per hit was modified by the power stat, and I tend to use mine in combo with my gnome. The S/S Gnome with (presumably) 2+ hits on Blitz plus the 3 per turret makes for a really nice tank option. Though, I can't lay hands on the formula for Plagued Blood heal just now, so the difference might not be noticeable until the match runs a ludicrous number of turns. I'm crossing my fingers I get to try it out on beta before I ruin my real pets, heh.



The yield from plagued blood healing is really miniscule with higher power. Hence why I believe you are better off with higher health.

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Re: Bigger, Faster, Stronger. What pets to improve in WoD

Postby Poofah » February 8th, 2014, 5:25 pm

Liopleurodon wrote:I can't lay hands on the formula for Plagued Blood heal just now, so the difference might not be noticeable until the match runs a ludicrous number of turns.


It's 4 base heal per hit, ie 0.2*(20+pwr). The difference between HH and PP is you trade 325 health for 65 power: so the PP heals for 13 more per hit than the HH, and it takes 25 hits for the PP to make up the 325 health with Plagued Blood heals. Assuming you DnD and spam Tail Sweep, that would be 9 turns. But ofc that ignores the other benefits of the higher power, ie dealing more damage and healing your Clockwork Gnome or Fiendish Imp or whatever.

Luciandk wrote:Overall SoA would hit more and gain more heals per batter if S/S. Since you need to be reliably faster to get the extra batter, so an S/S would alway have more yield out of it. Touch of the animus really shines with a multihit ability, something you cant reliably rely on as P/P.


I'm definitely not saying SoA would be bad as SS, I was just pointing out the scaling. Siphon is 310 dmg/heal with the PP, with one button push; Touch of the Animus would average out to 980 damage and 700 heals over the 3 turns it takes to Touch/Batter/Batter, which is 327 dmg/233 heal per turn. Those are very competitive. The downside with the SS is the opponent has the option to swap out the Touched pet. But in return, the slot 3 abilities both become extremely attractive on the SS.

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Re: Bigger, Faster, Stronger. What pets to improve in WoD

Postby Luciandk » February 10th, 2014, 3:48 am

Hrm, some good words about SoA. I had not realized Touch of the Animus is an enemy debuff, thusly vulnerable to swaps unlike Plagued Blood. But yeah, in that case Siphon Anima is far the more flexible ability, plus lower cd.

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Re: Bigger, Faster, Stronger. What pets to improve in WoD

Postby Awq » February 11th, 2014, 8:48 pm

I would sacrifice Mr Bigglesworth (or hopefully a new S/S Undead) for a S/S Val'Kyr.
I would love a SS Scalded Basilisk Hatchling.

Edit: Plagued Blood can be swapped out too!

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Re: Bigger, Faster, Stronger. What pets to improve in WoD

Postby Vek » March 17th, 2014, 1:08 pm

Luciandk wrote:Any thoughts of other pets that REALLY would do better with another breed, and suitable pets with a desirable breed that is easy to aquire?


Not entirely sure if P/P would be such a huge benefit to Clockwork Gnome. Turrets would gain very little is my guess, and still be blocked by sandstorm/shell. Also S/S Clockwork Gnome, would only really benefit Blitz which is already fast enough to handle dragons(well except the really fast Dragonhawks). I think that this one would benefit from more Health instead, keep up turrets for much longer. Feel free to disagree. :)

S/S Scalded Basilisk. Yes please! Sadly it would probably still be slower than 333 speed Imp, which would be annoying.

S/S Infinite Whelpling, ouch.

A couple I would find very interesting would be to take little used pets and actually make them worth something. For example:
S/S Harpy Youngling, would be more likely to get use of Quills and easier to avoid stuff with Lift-Off.
P/P Harpy Youngling, a worthwhile Counterstrike? Well, at least would hit stronger than what we have now.

S/S Stunted Yeti, much more use of Thrash + Mangle and much quicker stun from Bash.
P/P Stunted Yeti, Haymaker damage deluxe(already deals 732 with 273 power)?

To breed them we got P/P Kun-Lai Runts or P/P or S/S Sporeling Sprouts.

S/S Death Talon Whelpguard. Better use of Blitz and Clobber. S/S Silver Dragonhawk Hatchling for breeding.

S/S Minfernal. Faster Crouch and Meteor Strike. S/S Nordrassil Wisp for breeding.

P/P Bandicoon(and/or Clouded Hedgehog). To actually get some real use of Powerball. P/P Twilight Beetle for breeding.

P/S Unborn Val'kyr? Breeding Blighthawk.

P/P or P/S Clock'em. Still got Overtune for speed. P/P Sunreaver or P/S Blue Clockwork.

Well this is just theory crafting of course. No clue if it will work or how it will work.

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Re: Bigger, Faster, Stronger. What pets to improve in WoD

Postby Kring » March 17th, 2014, 3:39 pm

Vek wrote:S/S Scalded Basilisk. Yes please! Sadly it would probably still be slower than 333 speed Imp, which would be annoying.


You can check all breeds, not only the ones that exist, on wowhead. The S/S Scalded Basilisk would have an awesome speed of 341.

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Re: Bigger, Faster, Stronger. What pets to improve in WoD

Postby Vek » March 17th, 2014, 3:48 pm

Thanks Kring, excellent.

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Re: Bigger, Faster, Stronger. What pets to improve in WoD

Postby Poofah » March 17th, 2014, 4:59 pm

Vek wrote:Turrets would gain very little is my guess, and still be blocked by sandstorm/shell.


They would still be blocked by shields, yes. But Turrets is one of the best scaling abilities in the game: 9 base damage per turn for 5 turns, or 45 total. Also Repair scales well with power: 70 base damage heal (same as Emerald Dream/Hibernate, but backloaded so it's not as good). Clockwork Gnome has strange base stats, so PP would only be 309 power, but if we get to graft on both base stats and breed he could have Blackfuse Bombling-type stats (341 power). Here's how he'd scale


257 power (current) : turrets 124 dmg/turn (620 total), Repair 969
309 power (PP) : turrets 148 dmg/turn (740 total), Repair 1152
341 power : turrets 162 dmg/turn (812 total), Repair 1264


If you're using Lightning Storm or Black Claw etc to tack damage onto the turret hits, then I agree HH Clockwork would be better. But with a PP gnome you could think about abusing the power advantage with a heal (similar to Emerald Proto-Whelp), while having a much more potent offense.

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Re: Bigger, Faster, Stronger. What pets to improve in WoD

Postby Sile9 » March 17th, 2014, 5:46 pm

Some I'm looking forward to that have yet to be mentioned:

Sapphire Cub- It's an interesting pet, but its colossal investment into speed renders it barely usable due to abysmal HP. H/H would put it right where other S/S pets are currently (1400 hp, 260 power, 325 speed) and H/S would put it above death adder speed.

Spectral Tiger Cub- With S/S, Rend and Evanescence would be more widely usable without over-reliance on Leap. In P/P, Prowl + Spectral Strike would be even more brutal on a darkness team.

Jadefire Spirit- I'm honestly having a hard time deciding which pure breed would be best for this, but I''ll be glad to scrap the B/B. It has such an appealing move set with shield, heal/Fade, and an anti-flyer primary attack, which is pretty rare for a non-magic/dragonkin type.

Tiny Bog Beast- S/S can make it function almost as an elemental version of the Hopling with stun, Lash, and Poison Lash.

Horny Toad- Cuz lizards like to kiss, too!

Unless it has a big cost or some limit it seems that breeding for your ideal stat will be as trivial as having one pet with it in that family, then just finding a source of quick/cheap rare pets to consume to churn out more rares of the same stat to breed with your others. One good way to prepare for WoD could be to grind some faction - exalted with Sha'tari Skyguard will let you stock up on Nether Ray Fry for 40g a piece for your flyers (and S/S and P/P are two of their four possible breeds); exalted with Kalu'ak gives access to the 12g Pengu for aquatics; Clock'ems are sold by the Brawler's Guild for only 30 silver at Rank 4 for mechanicals; excess Timeless Coins can be spent on Harmonious Porcupettes for your magic pets once you're revered with Emperor Shaohao.

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Re: Bigger, Faster, Stronger. What pets to improve in WoD

Postby Vek » March 18th, 2014, 1:07 am

Thanks Poofah for the numbers.

Sile9 wrote:Jadefire Spirit- I'm honestly having a hard time deciding which pure breed would be best for this, but I''ll be glad to scrap the B/B. It has such an appealing move set with shield, heal/Fade, and an anti-flyer primary attack, which is pretty rare for a non-magic/dragonkin type.


Jadefire Spirit is actually P/S at the moment. I had also been thinking about perhaps making it P/P, since fliers are faster anyway and Fade is still a priority move so no speed needed. Though speed would still be useful after flying racial drop.

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Re: Bigger, Faster, Stronger. What pets to improve in WoD

Postby Sile9 » March 18th, 2014, 5:28 pm

For sure if I went S/S I would be running the heal instead; would lose a little bit of power towards half the heal, but make up for it with greater control over the other half as I pop it the turn after getting hit by burst.

Being anti-flyer is nice, but there's also the fact that Jade Claw damage will rarely be type mitigated as players are conditioned to keep their mechanicals far away from elementals. Still, it is hard to top the satisfaction of a Crow missing Nocturnal Strike under Darkness and losing a third of its health.


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