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Least Effective Pet Abilities

Discuss pet battles, strategy and theorycrafting.
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Papazol
 
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Re: Least Effective Pet Abilities

Postby Papazol » January 31st, 2014, 11:52 am

This was my opinion what I made from my experiense in pet battles. I answered for topic starter question. You are free to do same and dont need to disagree with me, cose I didn't ask you about your opinion, did I?

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Denarian
 
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Re: Least Effective Pet Abilities

Postby Denarian » January 31st, 2014, 12:02 pm

Papazol wrote:This was my opinion what I made from my experiense in pet battles. I answered for topic starter question. You are free to do same and dont need to disagree with me, cose I didn't ask you about your opinion, did I?



This is an open forum, and as long as people aren't breaking the rules, they are free to respond how they see fit. There is nothing wrong with discussion/debate about the topic at hand.

I'm sure there are people out there that feel that Apocalypse does not deserve to be on that list, but I do. There is nothing wrong with debating the value of a move like that.

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Quintessence
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Re: Least Effective Pet Abilities

Postby Quintessence » January 31st, 2014, 1:54 pm

Great responses so far. Noted that some abilities were mentioned a few times. In case you don't follow Twitter, LeCraft's response:

    Solid feedback. Didn't agree with all of it, but some changes have been made.
Also he Tweeted a possible change to Croak: Deals initial damage on top of the reduced crit chance, with a 4 round cooldown.

Keep up the discussion, it's awesome to see open communication between developers and passionate players. Debates and conflicting opinions are bound to happen, just keep it friendly and on topic. :)
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Peanutty
 
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Re: Least Effective Pet Abilities

Postby Peanutty » January 31st, 2014, 2:03 pm

I think this discussion is interesting because I do use some of the abilities that others have listed as being ineffective, but I'm also coming from a PVE POV as I do very little pet PVP. So like some of the mid range heals... yeah I use some of those during my pet tamer dailies because it's part of a rhythm that I've established for those battles. In PVP they probably aren't nearly as useful.

Personally I like the magic racial since yes, it makes it easier to level magic pets. It's even saved me in PVP once or twice (i.e. opponent comes in for a big hit but I can already see based on my health that he can't kill me in that turn, I retaliate with a 100% hit move and finish him off). It might be tweaked a little but I do like what it does.
Last edited by Peanutty on January 31st, 2014, 5:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Ligre
 
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Re: Least Effective Pet Abilities

Postby Ligre » January 31st, 2014, 2:11 pm

Papa, you're going to get opinions whether you ask for them or not. :)

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Luciandk
 
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Re: Least Effective Pet Abilities

Postby Luciandk » January 31st, 2014, 2:31 pm

To the OP. Always remember, one man's trash, anothers gold.

But yes just because someone thinks an ability to be bad, it might not mean its actually bad, but they are just not understanding how to use it to full effect. Such as needing to work in combination with other abilities or on specific pets.

though from looking at the thread, its clear theres some abilities thats noticeably frowned on by multiple people. Now -THATS- a worthwhile consensus to send on to LeCraft for review and redesign.

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Vek
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Re: Least Effective Pet Abilities

Postby Vek » January 31st, 2014, 3:23 pm

Quintessence wrote:Also he Tweeted a possible change to Croak: Deals initial damage on top of the reduced crit chance, with a 4 round cooldown.


In the picture the reduction was also buffed to 100%. Seems like nice jademist dancer counter. And who knows what pets we will face next expansion.

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Shikon01
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Re: Least Effective Pet Abilities

Postby Shikon01 » February 1st, 2014, 8:33 am

Luciandk wrote:You undervalue Emerald Dream. Its a very potent heal on a P/P Emerald Proto Whelp. It just keeps going, going and going, especially if you make sure to roll the shield move and you will bounce back from nearly everything many pandaria tamers can throw at you.

Ive recommended that pet to MANY new battlers and they love it as a core team pet.

I agree emerald dream gives great heals. You just don't want the pets health all the way down where one hit takes it out., but I use pets w/ emerald dream particularly leveling pets and my emerald whelping has always held its on in pet battles as well..its a favorite and I highly recommend pets like this that cause serve multiple purposes.

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Vek
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Re: Least Effective Pet Abilities

Postby Vek » February 27th, 2014, 7:53 am

Quintessence wrote:
    What are the worst pet abilities and/or pets?


I know that the moment probably has passed(the ship has sailed etc), since the patch came with some nice ability updates. But during the "battle with that pet" thread I have come to use at least two pets that should be looked into.

Porcupette. First it has 289 speed, and possible speed buff from Powerball. This makes Counterstrike quite useless. Though beast of fable and certain dread waste trainer do use it with their inflated power stats for big hits. Secondly, survival which need speed and power ball in the same slot, just is wrong. Thirdly all three of it's attacks are 100% hitters so even with medium 260 power the hits are very low, 210/280 respectively. This pet purely sucks.

Bat. Pretty low health, unless you get a health-breed, and no defence at all except a one-target 25% slow. Leech Life needs a web to be useful at all, which means you need a spider to switch with and that will cause you to take a hit just to get an improved heal. Secondly Leech Life heal does not scale with damage, it is fixed. I tried with Hawk Eye, and crit for over 200(wee :P) but heal was still 172. This probably also means it does not even heal more with things like Howl. Though I have yet to try it in sunlight. It just would have been more useful, but still questionable, with a Consume type move that returns damage done. Thirdly Nocturnal Strike needs darkness, well ok that is something you can work with. But these things combined makes this pet sub-par in my mind.

I'm sure there are other pets that really need some looking into.

Edit: By the way nobody would be happier than me if someone else can make these pets work.

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Hulfnar
 
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Re: Least Effective Pet Abilities

Postby Hulfnar » March 17th, 2014, 3:32 pm

Vek wrote:Plant. It just seems like a crappy Hibernate.


What? Plant is a delayed heal, not at all the same as Hibernate. It is one of the best healing moves available, IMO.

You activate Plant (basically it costs you a move up front) but then you use your other abilities as usual during subsequent turns, i.e., using Plant does not put your pet to sleep. Every turn that you use your other abilities adds to the heal until you cast Plant again (basically costing you another move), then you get the heal multiplied by the amount of turns in between casts. Unless you are fighting something that chews through your pet in two or three turns, you get a massive heal exactly when you need it for the cost of two moves. Of course the principal danger is that your opponent might get a lucky crit or two and kill your pet before you can deactivate Plant.

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Kpb321
 
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Re: Least Effective Pet Abilities

Postby Kpb321 » March 17th, 2014, 4:47 pm

Hulfnar wrote:
Vek wrote:Plant. It just seems like a crappy Hibernate.


What? Plant is a delayed heal, not at all the same as Hibernate. It is one of the best healing moves available, IMO.

You activate Plant (basically it costs you a move up front) but then you use your other abilities as usual during subsequent turns, i.e., using Plant does not put your pet to sleep. Every turn that you use your other abilities adds to the heal until you cast Plant again (basically costing you another move), then you get the heal multiplied by the amount of turns in between casts. Unless you are fighting something that chews through your pet in two or three turns, you get a massive heal exactly when you need it for the cost of two moves. Of course the principal danger is that your opponent might get a lucky crit or two and kill your pet before you can deactivate Plant.



It does seem on the weak side to me. It costs two rounds to use and heals for about half what a normal heal would heal for per round planted. That equates to needing to be planted for 4 rounds to get the equivalent amount of healing per action. Assuming you count the round you plant but not the round you heal in the size of the heal you'd need to use it on your first turn and then heal on your 5th turn to basically break even with a more normal heal. Doable not necessarily easy. Especially since there seems to be limited synergy with other moves for pets that have the ability. Venus is the only one of the 4 pets with the ability that can also take another heal with plant. The closest the other pets get to any synergy is Stun Seed. It also doesn't help that three of the 4 are B/B breeds with the other being P/B. Maybe with breeding where you can go for a H/H Venus to go for extra health and healing it could be an effective stall/tank pet but with out a really good tank type pet or other moves it just seems like it won't ever really be very powerful.

The Emerald Dream is a great heal not because of the heal itself but because Emerald presence makes the pet extremely durable allowing the heal to be really effective. Plant + crouch or emerald presence would be a pretty potent combo most likely.

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Vek
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Re: Least Effective Pet Abilities

Postby Vek » March 17th, 2014, 4:55 pm

Hulfnar wrote:What? Plant is a delayed heal, not at all the same as Hibernate. It is one of the best healing moves available, IMO.


Challenge accepted. I perhaps spoke too soon since I had misunderstood the wording, that you were actually incapacitated during the planting. Problem with certain abilities that can't be properly explained in short text of tool tips.

After trying it out. Well it does heal a lot if you got 3 turns on it, but still you "waste" two turns doing no damage. Being able to go 4 turns and heal even more should be very rare in PvP. Just feels like a high risk high reward type move. Not really to my own liking. But perhaps not amongst the least effective abilities then.

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Jerebear
 
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Re: Least Effective Pet Abilities

Postby Jerebear » March 17th, 2014, 5:30 pm

Well, depending on your viewpoints, you could plop it into a sunlight team of some sort, have it cast plant the first round, swap to the sunlight pet, do the rest of your stuff, then after a while, bring in the pet that cast plant, toss stun seed and a poison, release a really larget plant heal, restart it, swap, repeat.

Haven't thought it through mind you, but could maybe find some sort of synergy there. EDIT: not that I suggest that sort of play...just thinking of how to make it useful.
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Kpb321
 
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Re: Least Effective Pet Abilities

Postby Kpb321 » March 17th, 2014, 8:24 pm

You can't swap a pet out while it is planted by normal means. I'd assume if your opponent used a swap on you that you'd still get swapped but that isn't something you can count on.

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Jerebear
 
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Re: Least Effective Pet Abilities

Postby Jerebear » March 17th, 2014, 11:10 pm

Yep, I seemed to have missed that for some reason. Oh well.
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Hulfnar
 
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Re: Least Effective Pet Abilities

Postby Hulfnar » March 20th, 2014, 10:30 am

Vek wrote:Just feels like a high risk high reward type move.


That's true, but like any risk it can be managed. I rarely PvP so I am primarily talking about wild battles and tamers, where I can gameplan with confidence. I always use it as the first move; if I am lucky or have chosen my opponent well, I can have a big heal cued up exactly when I need it. If I have to use it sooner, I still get a modest heal.

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Vek
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Re: Least Effective Pet Abilities

Postby Vek » March 20th, 2014, 11:26 am

Hulfnar wrote:That's true, but like any risk it can be managed. I rarely PvP so I am primarily talking about wild battles and tamers, where I can gameplan with confidence. I always use it as the first move; if I am lucky or have chosen my opponent well, I can have a big heal cued up exactly when I need it. If I have to use it sooner, I still get a modest heal.


Wild battles are much more controlled than PvP so in PvE it would be much more useful, I can see why you like it there.

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Vek
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Re: Least Effective Pet Abilities

Postby Vek » March 20th, 2014, 11:28 am

By the way, bottom of the pile right now much be Caw. Not sure how it got under the radar last time around. 50% bonus to crit chance, for 2 turns.... with a 4 turn cooldown. Adrenal Glands is 50% to crit chance for 5 turns, no cooldown.

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Mojogrow
 
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Re: Least Effective Pet Abilities

Postby Mojogrow » March 21st, 2014, 8:14 am

Vek wrote:By the way, bottom of the pile right now much be Caw. Not sure how it got under the radar last time around. 50% bonus to crit chance, for 2 turns.... with a 4 turn cooldown. Adrenal Glands is 50% to crit chance for 5 turns, no cooldown.


Another ability, in the same nature, is Woodchipper (236 damage with 98 bleed for 4 turns). Compare it to all the other bleeds. Rip has more base damage, same bleed and lasts 5 turns. Chop is the same as Rip. The only other bleed is Huge, Sharp Teeth, with the same bleed damage, same 4 turns as Woodchipper, but does even more damage than Rip and Chop who already out-damage Woodchipper. It's not even like the others have worst accuracy or anything, all have 100%.

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Profane
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Re: Least Effective Pet Abilities

Postby Profane » June 8th, 2014, 5:58 pm

Denarian wrote:Apocalypse

This ability is essentially useless. I have never seen it actually go off in pvp, although I have seen it used before a couple of times. The thing is, though, the match usually ends before then. In pve, I have intentionally kept the fight going with a wild pet, just to see it hit, and when it did, it missed my pet anyway.


It misses cause the pet that casted it is dead. I think it's stupid, but it's known by Blizz, even though it's 100% hit chance. Also, a magic pet can't be killed by it if it has enough health because of it's "racial"

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