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The most powerful PVP team : 244 Valk/341 Snake/325 Qiraji

Discuss pet battles, strategy and theorycrafting.
3wd
 
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The most powerful PVP team : 244 Valk/341 Snake/325 Qiraji

Postby 3wd » January 20th, 2014, 12:02 pm

Currently this is the most powerful PVP team and there are only a handful of team can survive against this setup.

This is the basic strategy :

1. start out with the valk, if your opponent has less than 1600 HP, cast huant right away.
2. then get your Qiraji Guardling out, use stunt.
3. switch to the snake.
4. use blind
5. use Puncture Wound this round, if your opponent has around 1400 HP, you will be able to kill him directly. If he has more and around 1600 HP, you can kill him next round because you should go first.
** so you get hit max once and you can kill your opponent's first pet almost free **

** if your opponent's first pet will have high HP like in the 1800 range, use curse first and then huant, normally when pet has 1800 or above HP, their speed is slower and your valk may even go first also **

* If your opponent is undead, and in the sixth round they will get up, your valk will be up at the backrow also, get her out to soak the dmg and repeat the same rotation again *

* Aqua pet you do not need to be afraid too much, your Qiraji Guiardling has sandstorm to handle them, use it wisely *

* Mech pet is dangerously to snake, but the poison dot is also heavy hit on mech, so unless the mech pet can lay mine, otherwise your snake normally can win against most of the mech pet if use wisely *

* Flying pet seems strong against the snake due to speed and racial, however, if played wisely, this combo can still beat the crap out of the flying team, I always laugh at people want to revenge me by pulling out 3 ravens, the key is to use the valk wisely to damage the ravens in order for them to lose the racial. *

* Idol could be tricky at times, especially when they are using demo + reflect + sandstorm, but just focus to beat him with your valk and you should be fine , Imp is a joke against this team as each of the 3 pet can counter the imp effectively. *

* if you worry about the speed, 357 rabbit is a joke against the snake and guardling, most of other critters are useless also against this team *

In short, this is the most powerful PVP team currently and has less weakness than any of the other valk teams out there.

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Re: The most powerful PVP team : 244 Valk/341 Snake/325 Qira

Postby Ligre » January 20th, 2014, 1:14 pm

I'm pretty sure I could defeat that Death Adder with an Ashwing Moth using Most Balls, Cocoon and Alpha Strike. The Guardling might be an annoyance, but a well played Alterac Brew-Pup could probably take care of it. The Valk? See Brew-Pup. I've been using a Dragon-Clone Dancer team with the Pup on it to wipe the mat with Valk users lately. Your team might be formidable, yes, but there's no such thing as a "most powerful" PvP team. Everything has its counter, and it's only a matter of time before you run into it.

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Re: The most powerful PVP team : 244 Valk/341 Snake/325 Qira

Postby Badpathing » January 20th, 2014, 1:26 pm

Ligre wrote:I'm pretty sure I could defeat that Death Adder with an Ashwing Moth using Most Balls, Cocoon and Alpha Strike. The Guardling might be an annoyance, but a well played Alterac Brew-Pup could probably take care of it. The Valk? See Brew-Pup. I've been using a Dragon-Clone Dancer team with the Pup on it to wipe the mat with Valk users lately. Your team might be formidable, yes, but there's no such thing as a "most powerful" PvP team. Everything has its counter, and it's only a matter of time before you run into it.


Been doing a lot of pvp lately (working towards the pvp pet) so trying new teams helps pass the time. Can you tell me what a dragon-clone dancer team is?
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Re: The most powerful PVP team : 244 Valk/341 Snake/325 Qira

Postby 3wd » January 20th, 2014, 2:00 pm

Ligre wrote:I'm pretty sure I could defeat that Death Adder with an Ashwing Moth using Most Balls, Cocoon and Alpha Strike. The Guardling might be an annoyance, but a well played Alterac Brew-Pup could probably take care of it. The Valk? See Brew-Pup. I've been using a Dragon-Clone Dancer team with the Pup on it to wipe the mat with Valk users lately. Your team might be formidable, yes, but there's no such thing as a "most powerful" PvP team. Everything has its counter, and it's only a matter of time before you run into it.


As I said, this team against any flying pet heavy team will rely on the valk to hit them under 50% HP and then these flying pets will be dropping like nothing.

Moth balls actually is a horrible choice for flying pets, low damage, and low hit rate, moth dust on the other hand is actually a much effectively and better choice for flying pets.

I have never lost to any flying pet team using moth balls.

Cocoon doing very low damage and it also doesn't block any dots, and after 50% HP, alpha strike will lost its additional damage also.

When I say this team still can beat out 3 ravens (although not guaranteed and chance is not as high as against other teams), I would gladly face any flying pets with the skill set of moth balls / cocoon / alpha strike.

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Re: The most powerful PVP team : 244 Valk/341 Snake/325 Qira

Postby 3wd » January 20th, 2014, 2:06 pm

Also, when I say the words " most powerful",

that obviously is referring to :

1. Currently
2. Overall performance (win/loss) when you que a random pvp match.

No team is unbeatable, but unless you use very specific revenge team against this team I mentioned, there is no significant weakness of this team and because of the unique combination of skill set and the speed advantage, this team can kill lots of pet easily and you will be so frustrated when you basically can't do anything but watch your pet die in 6 rounds.

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Re: The most powerful PVP team : 244 Valk/341 Snake/325 Qira

Postby Badpathing » January 20th, 2014, 2:11 pm

I think everyone knows that no team is unbeatable. However, these sorts of threads seem to draw lots of disagreeing perspectives because your battles are going to be different than mine, and his, and hers, and... you get the idea.

Sure, your battlegroup may have a concentration of teams that this particular team works well against; but it may not fare so well in my battlegroup. I think the point is this, if you want to advertise a nice team/combo, do it that way. If you advertise something is "most powerful" or "most <insert something here>", you are going to get a lot of arguing.
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Re: The most powerful PVP team : 244 Valk/341 Snake/325 Qira

Postby 3wd » January 20th, 2014, 2:19 pm

Badpathing wrote:I think everyone knows that no team is unbeatable. However, these sorts of threads seem to draw lots of disagreeing perspectives because your battles are going to be different than mine, and his, and hers, and... you get the idea.

Sure, your battlegroup may have a concentration of teams that this particular team works well against; but it may not fare so well in my battlegroup. I think the point is this, if you want to advertise a nice team/combo, do it that way. If you advertise something is "most powerful" or "most <insert something here>", you are going to get a lot of arguing.


Well, the point is this, I am actually not looking for compliments.

In fact, I would like to hear more arguments, as long as they are rational.

Its not about my team is better than your team.

Its about what is the more powerful and better combination of skill set right now for the existing pets we can choose.

So, if you have a better team that can do better, I will be more than happy to hear that.

As you said, there is no team that's unbeatable, its not that difficult to find a team that can counter this team, but how many you can find and how well your revenge team will be doing against any other normal pvp random team is the question here.

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Re: The most powerful PVP team : 244 Valk/341 Snake/325 Qira

Postby Voidsinger » January 20th, 2014, 3:16 pm

Ultimately, I think this combo could be seen as simply 'three powerful pets tend to win'. I won't say I disagree. I've been playing S/S Death Adder and Valk for a while now, rotating through a 3rd pet. I didn't think of the Guardling though - I've had the most success with a S/S Jademist Dancer personally. The synergy between Valk's Haunt switch into a Blind is really, really strong. The 3rd pet can be any strong filler and I think you'll have success.

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Re: The most powerful PVP team : 244 Valk/341 Snake/325 Qira

Postby Ligre » January 20th, 2014, 3:58 pm

Been doing a lot of pvp lately (working towards the pvp pet) so trying new teams helps pass the time. Can you tell me what a dragon-clone dancer team is?


To clarify, it means I normally start with a Dragonkin that uses Cyclone...then swap to the Jademist Dancer to get the combo rolling. :)

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Re: The most powerful PVP team : 244 Valk/341 Snake/325 Qira

Postby 3wd » January 20th, 2014, 4:02 pm

Voidsinger wrote:Ultimately, I think this combo could be seen as simply 'three powerful pets tend to win'. I won't say I disagree. I've been playing S/S Death Adder and Valk for a while now, rotating through a 3rd pet. I didn't think of the Guardling though - I've had the most success with a S/S Jademist Dancer personally. The synergy between Valk's Haunt switch into a Blind is really, really strong. The 3rd pet can be any strong filler and I think you'll have success.


The Guardling exist long before the valk got popular in this patch, she is a good pet but never was regarded as powerful.

In fact, she doesn't really fit in well with many good teams.

What makes her great in this team is the kick stun + speed combo, which ultimately can stall 2 rounds without losing anything, she will be the perfect bridge between the valk and the snake.

Also, since your team is building around the huant, it's also very nice to have the sandstorm to counter the aqua pet when your opponent seeking for revenge.

Other than that, if you single out the guardling and put her into any other random team, she will have less success than here.

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Re: The most powerful PVP team : 244 Valk/341 Snake/325 Qira

Postby 3wd » January 20th, 2014, 4:11 pm

Ligre wrote:
Been doing a lot of pvp lately (working towards the pvp pet) so trying new teams helps pass the time. Can you tell me what a dragon-clone dancer team is?


To clarify, it means I normally start with a Dragonkin that uses Cyclone...then swap to the Jademist Dancer to get the combo rolling. :)


I used this team against lots of the popular cyclone + dancer team and seldom lose any games.

Say you start out with a dragon, when I see you have a dancer at the back, its obviously you will switch.

So I start out with a curse of doom if your first pet is a dragon, now you probably started to regret and have second thought whether to switch or not, but because your dragon breath is a weak attack against undead, eventually you decide the best move for you is to switch.

next round you get your dancer in, I will huant, and its a free hit for my valk.

3rd round, my guardling will be up, your dancer has max speed at 317, mine is 325.

I will use stun kick on you.

4th round you are still stunned, I will cast sandstorm to further weaken your cyclone damage.

** remember the dancer is an element, it will not get any benefit from the sandstorm, my dot will remain the same damage on you **

5th round I will hit you with a fist, you will still take full damage, whatever you will do this round, you are almost dead. and your dragon at the back will also eat a COD.

And for my team? minimum damage received - cyclone damage for 2 pets under sandstorm. The game actually will be decided there.

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Re: The most powerful PVP team : 244 Valk/341 Snake/325 Qira

Postby Poofah » January 20th, 2014, 4:30 pm

I think you're discounting aquatics too easily. The most popular anti-Valk pet I see is PP Emperor Crab with shield/heal, and I don't see how you beat that. Haunt does 0 damage with shield up, Sandstorm is 400 damage, and if you sandstorm then the crab has a double shield -- Crush drops to 225 damage with 70% accuracy in that case. Meanwhile he can heal 150 per turn while hitting you for 400+ (330+ under Sandstorm). Snake has similar problems: poison drops to 0 damage, Puncture Wound is 350, and crab doesn't care about being blinded because he'll just use that turn to refresh the shield and/or heal.

Voidsinger wrote:Ultimately, I think this combo could be seen as simply 'three powerful pets tend to win'. I won't say I disagree. I've been playing S/S Death Adder and Valk for a while now, rotating through a 3rd pet. I didn't think of the Guardling though - I've had the most success with a S/S Jademist Dancer personally. The synergy between Valk's Haunt switch into a Blind is really, really strong. The 3rd pet can be any strong filler and I think you'll have success.


Totally agree. Valk/stall is pretty common these days, and it doesn't hurt that death adder is a superstar in his own right. Qiraji is just along for the ride. A while ago OP made similar 'best team' claims with a Netherwhelp as the Valk sidekick -- viewtopic.php?f=3&t=7659 . Valk is just crazy powerful, and makes any staller-type pet a whole lot better. But that also makes Valk public enemy #1, and that makes crabs/crawdads pretty common in the queue.

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Re: The most powerful PVP team : 244 Valk/341 Snake/325 Qira

Postby Ligre » January 20th, 2014, 6:08 pm

3wd wrote:
Ligre wrote:
Been doing a lot of pvp lately (working towards the pvp pet) so trying new teams helps pass the time. Can you tell me what a dragon-clone dancer team is?


To clarify, it means I normally start with a Dragonkin that uses Cyclone...then swap to the Jademist Dancer to get the combo rolling. :)


I used this team against lots of the popular cyclone + dancer team and seldom lose any games.

Say you start out with a dragon, when I see you have a dancer at the back, its obviously you will switch.

So I start out with a curse of doom if your first pet is a dragon, now you probably started to regret and have second thought whether to switch or not, but because your dragon breath is a weak attack against undead, eventually you decide the best move for you is to switch.

next round you get your dancer in, I will huant, and its a free hit for my valk.

3rd round, my guardling will be up, your dancer has max speed at 317, mine is 325.

I will use stun kick on you.

4th round you are still stunned, I will cast sandstorm to further weaken your cyclone damage.

** remember the dancer is an element, it will not get any benefit from the sandstorm, my dot will remain the same damage on you **

5th round I will hit you with a fist, you will still take full damage, whatever you will do this round, you are almost dead. and your dragon at the back will also eat a COD.

And for my team? minimum damage received - cyclone damage for 2 pets under sandstorm. The game actually will be decided there.


You couldn't be more wrong. My Dragon would start, yes...but instead of switching to the Dancer after eating a CoD, next pet in would be the Brew-Pup. I put up the Pup's 50% damage reduction for 3 rounds, and boom...Haunt is negated. You can also try and knock him down via Slot 1 spam, but that won't work either. Unless I am option-less where CDs/defensives are concerned, I can and will typically out-think my opponent in most cases. So, the Brew-Pup has Haunt...I Avalanche, dealing 300+ to both your remaining pets.

Then, I can either choose to backline the Pup, or keep him in to soak anything further from your other pets. The Dragon is back, and so is Cyclone. So now you wanna bring in the Guardling to change weather I'd assume. I'll just wait you out and burst the Guardling down unless you are flawless with Blackout Kick/Crush. One way or another, the Dancer is going to do his thing. Now, this is all contingent on the plan working. If the Guardling screws it up, then so be it. I can, and will, adjust to adversity...if not immediately, then in the next battle(s). :)

Theoretically, though, your team is well equipped to handle mine...through sheer speed alone. What say I throw a Mongoose or Moth into the mix? There goes your Blinding Poison and stun/Crush plan.

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Re: The most powerful PVP team : 244 Valk/341 Snake/325 Qira

Postby 3wd » January 20th, 2014, 6:38 pm

Poofah wrote:I think you're discounting aquatics too easily. The most popular anti-Valk pet I see is PP Emperor Crab with shield/heal, and I don't see how you beat that. Haunt does 0 damage with shield up, Sandstorm is 400 damage, and if you sandstorm then the crab has a double shield -- Crush drops to 225 damage with 70% accuracy in that case. Meanwhile he can heal 150 per turn while hitting you for 400+ (330+ under Sandstorm). Snake has similar problems: poison drops to 0 damage, Puncture Wound is 350, and crab doesn't care about being blinded because he'll just use that turn to refresh the shield and/or heal.

Voidsinger wrote:Ultimately, I think this combo could be seen as simply 'three powerful pets tend to win'. I won't say I disagree. I've been playing S/S Death Adder and Valk for a while now, rotating through a 3rd pet. I didn't think of the Guardling though - I've had the most success with a S/S Jademist Dancer personally. The synergy between Valk's Haunt switch into a Blind is really, really strong. The 3rd pet can be any strong filler and I think you'll have success.


Totally agree. Valk/stall is pretty common these days, and it doesn't hurt that death adder is a superstar in his own right. Qiraji is just along for the ride. A while ago OP made similar 'best team' claims with a Netherwhelp as the Valk sidekick -- viewtopic.php?f=3&t=7659 . Valk is just crazy powerful, and makes any staller-type pet a whole lot better. But that also makes Valk public enemy #1, and that makes crabs/crawdads pretty common in the queue.


As I said, no team is unbeatable and every team still has its weakness.

On paper, a PP Emperor Crab looks like the best bet to beat this team, but in reality, that will require a lots of guessing for the crab to pull it out.

The reason being : you are using snap but not surging.

You will never have any guaranteed hit against these 3 pets of mine, you have to guess when to use the shield or when to heal back. You can not just keep refreshing the shield and wait for your heal CD, you have to take a guess to snap at some point.

From my experience, a crawdad is a much worst enemy for this team than an Emperor crab, and even the crocolisks could have the potential do better than the crab.

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Re: The most powerful PVP team : 244 Valk/341 Snake/325 Qira

Postby 3wd » January 20th, 2014, 7:16 pm

Ligre wrote:You couldn't be more wrong. My Dragon would start, yes...but instead of switching to the Dancer after eating a CoD, next pet in would be the Brew-Pup. I put up the Pup's 50% damage reduction for 3 rounds, and boom...Haunt is negated. You can also try and knock him down via Slot 1 spam, but that won't work either. Unless I am option-less where CDs/defensives are concerned, I can and will typically out-think my opponent in most cases. So, the Brew-Pup has Haunt...I Avalanche, dealing 300+ to both your remaining pets.

Then, I can either choose to backline the Pup, or keep him in to soak anything further from your other pets. The Dragon is back, and so is Cyclone. So now you wanna bring in the Guardling to change weather I'd assume. I'll just wait you out and burst the Guardling down unless you are flawless with Blackout Kick/Crush. One way or another, the Dancer is going to do his thing. Now, this is all contingent on the plan working. If the Guardling screws it up, then so be it. I can, and will, adjust to adversity...if not immediately, then in the next battle(s). :)

Theoretically, though, your team is well equipped to handle mine...through sheer speed alone. What say I throw a Mongoose or Moth into the mix? There goes your Blinding Poison and stun/Crush plan.



Alright then.

You have the dragon up first, put up the cyclone and get a COD and move back and you call your pup to the front.

Let's play it out.

I use COD with my valk, and then use huant on your pup. Basically the only possible attack on my valk is the possibility of one single hit of cyclone, what? 120 dmg max? and this could be less than 25% of chance also.

so 2nd round you call up the pup and eat the huant, lost 150 HP.

3rd round, my guardling is up, a kick stun, how can you use any reduce damage shield? no you can't, you eat another 150 damage, and stun.

4th round, you can not do anything but to eat another round of 150 damage of huant. I call up the snake.

5th round, what are you going to do? You are down to 950 hp now. Use shield or avalanche? I will be very happy if you will use avalanche because you are still above the racial buff line of 50% HP. At worst case, what if I blind you? So you will probably still use the shield and wait.

I will poison fang you this round, you will take 210+35(dot after the shield) plus another 75 huant damage. If you will use the avalanche in this round, good for me also, my snake and guardling will only eat about 390 dmg each, still very healthy for both, but if you will use avalanche here, and without the shield, next round you will be done, because you are eating 110 damage more and you will down to about 520 HP.

6th round, now you are down to about 630 HP, I will use blind here. whatever you are going to do it doesn't matter, you will take another damage of 110, your HP after this round is 520.

7th round, you can not do anything, I will puncture you for 140+140 = 280 damage.

8th round, now you can do your avalanche - of you have not used it yet, it will hit my 3 pets with about 330 dmg each. I will just keep hitting you with fang for another 140 dmg.

9th round, your shield now is gone, and I am going first, you will be dead for sure now.

After 9 rounds, you have a dragon at the back ate a COD, the pup is gone.

My side? either the valk is at close to full HP and the snake and guardling close to half HP each (already considered the damage of the cyclone) or all of my 3 pets are still close to 1000 HP each.

you have a dancer and a 60% dragon left, so who has the upper hand?

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Re: The most powerful PVP team : 244 Valk/341 Snake/325 Qira

Postby Ligre » January 20th, 2014, 11:50 pm

I guess you didn't want to read the rest of my post. I will halt this pissing contest then. You're the best, you have the answer to everything and no one can beat your team. Happy? :)

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Re: The most powerful PVP team : 244 Valk/341 Snake/325 Qira

Postby Avalee » January 21st, 2014, 6:49 am

Alpine Foxling kit (2,1,2) would do very good against such a team. It can do between 1000 to 1500 damage to the valkyr in the first 2 rounds. When the snakes uses Blind, I will just use the speed upgrade or shields.
Sure it won't survive with all those dots, but my second pet (probably a Kovok with 1,2,2) will easily kill the snake and the remainder of the valkyr.

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Re: The most powerful PVP team : 244 Valk/341 Snake/325 Qira

Postby Kring » January 21st, 2014, 7:58 am

Thanks for posting your team with an explanation how to play it. I played a few games yesterday with it and the Qiraji did much better then what I expected.

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Re: The most powerful PVP team : 244 Valk/341 Snake/325 Qira

Postby Maleric » January 21st, 2014, 9:11 am

S/S Qiraji Guardling doesn't combine well with DoT pets, which Unborn Val'kyr and Death Adder Hatchling both are. You either have to be super careful about using Sandstorm, or you have to use the inferior Hawk Eye. Peddlefeet provides the same stun effect, so you might want to use that one instead.

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Re: The most powerful PVP team : 244 Valk/341 Snake/325 Qira

Postby Se5s » January 21st, 2014, 10:39 am

i'm sure someone's already pointed this out, but it's the 341 death adder + val'kyr that's strong. the third pet can literally just be a rabbit to avoid moves until the val'kyr does its thing and the death adder gets it's cd's back, or a magical crawdad to heal the death adder so it can fight a little longer. in fact i'm sure either of those will beat the guardling as well as have the same win/loss ratio.

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