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Stealth nerfs to Murkalot and Kovok

Discuss pet battles, strategy and theorycrafting.
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Luciandk
 
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Stealth nerfs to Murkalot and Kovok

Postby Luciandk » November 20th, 2013, 3:37 am

Just looked at Pheromones after seeing blabber about it. Wow I say, it got nerfbatted hard!

Its reduced to 77 damage to backrow pets for my HP Kovok. A brutal nerf for sure, but Im sure few will argue it was unwarranted, the ability was just too good. But he got me the trainer title.

Murkalot had his Shieldstorm swapped with Falling Murloc again, so he can inspire himself to deliver a powerful hit. But no longer having his teamwide shield if wanting to use Righteous inspiration. Good nerfs, makes it a choice in what to take. Though I still think RI far outshines Shieldstorm in utility and power.

Edit: Just noticed Righteous Inspiration have an 8 round cd now. Yes, that does make it more of a balanced choice vs Shieldstorm.

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Ligre
 
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Re: Stealth nerfs to Murkalot and Kovok

Postby Ligre » November 20th, 2013, 7:22 am

The changes to Murkalot are fine.

The overnerf to Kovok's Pheromones ability will not only cause us to gravitate towards other abilities the pet has (not a bad thing at all), but will also cause at least 90% of Kovok users to never bother with Pheromones ever again (a very bad thing). Honestly, I would have been perfectly happy with the damage being cut down to 100 per tick...as it is now, it's just laughable.

Now if Blizzard would just grow a set and fix the Elemental/Sandstorm bug, as well as lower the hit frequency (yes, I know what the tooltip says - it lies) of Demolish...

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Poofah
 
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Re: Stealth nerfs to Murkalot and Kovok

Postby Poofah » November 20th, 2013, 10:40 am

Luciandk wrote:Its reduced to 77 damage to backrow pets for my HP Kovok. A brutal nerf for sure, but Im sure few will argue it was unwarranted, the ability was just too good.


It's definitely unwarranted -- the damage is cut in half. Pheromones was obviously strong, but instead of trying to find a fair and playable version of Pheromones, they simply gutted it. It's the same as FFF -- instead of trying to find a fair version of Supercharge+Wind-Up, they took it away entirely.

A good way to balance is to add strong and interesting new abilities, then scale them back incrementally if they prove to be too strong. A bad way to balance is to make huge kneejerk nerfs when people complain after only a few weeks. A 50% nerf is never a good nerf -- it means they were either wrong about the power level of Pheromones by a factor of 2 when they released it, or else they are overnerfing it now. The truth is somewhere in the middle, but now we'll never know because Pheromones got FFF'd up.

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Luciandk
 
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Re: Stealth nerfs to Murkalot and Kovok

Postby Luciandk » November 20th, 2013, 10:57 am

Poofah wrote:
Luciandk wrote:Its reduced to 77 damage to backrow pets for my HP Kovok. A brutal nerf for sure, but Im sure few will argue it was unwarranted, the ability was just too good.


It's definitely unwarranted -- the damage is cut in half. Pheromones was obviously strong, but instead of trying to find a fair and playable version of Pheromones, they simply gutted it. It's the same as FFF -- instead of trying to find a fair version of Supercharge+Wind-Up, they took it away entirely.

A good way to balance is to add strong and interesting new abilities, then scale them back incrementally if they prove to be too strong. A bad way to balance is to make huge kneejerk nerfs when people complain after only a few weeks. A 50% nerf is never a good nerf -- it means they were either wrong about the power level of Pheromones by a factor of 2 when they released it, or else they are overnerfing it now. The truth is somewhere in the middle, but now we'll never know because Pheromones got FFF'd up.


Pheromones is not a powerhouse more, but it still deals easy damage for the effort. But now you pretty much need Call Lightning roll extra damage on Pheromones ticks, as well to remove Sandstorm which will shut it down entirely. Pheromones was warping the metagame, just too strong and prevalent, and now reduced in power. It can be something to build around without it overpowering everything else. The nerf was warranted.

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Gilneas
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Re: Stealth nerfs to Murkalot and Kovok

Postby Gilneas » November 20th, 2013, 11:52 am

The cooldown change to RI is really the main nerf to Murkalot. Being able to take Falling Murloc and RI is actually probably a bit of a buff. My experience often was when you were down to just him, he wasn't a very strong pet. Having that high damage attack in the 2nd slot though... he's dangerous when its just him now.

Luciandk wrote:Pheromones is not a powerhouse more, but it still deals easy damage for the effort. But now you pretty much need Call Lightning roll extra damage on Pheromones ticks, as well to remove Sandstorm which will shut it down entirely. Pheromones was warping the metagame, just too strong and prevalent, and now reduced in power. It can be something to build around without it overpowering everything else. The nerf was warranted.


It was too strong, yes. But where you are wrong is that its still good damage. It is not. Its not worth the effort. You'll get more out of the brains ability now. No reason to use Pheromones at all. A nerf halfway between the two values (approximately) would have made both of them valid choices.

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Re: Stealth nerfs to Murkalot and Kovok

Postby 3wd » November 20th, 2013, 5:41 pm

I have no problem for them to reduce the damage to half, but I would like to see the CD to be reduce to 3 rounds instead of 5 rounds, then this could still be useful to some extend.

As for the murk, there is no middle ground for this pet, the whole design from the get go is so wrong, their intend is to create an OP monster and now since the blizzcon is over, its just time to destroy it.

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Gilneas
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Re: Stealth nerfs to Murkalot and Kovok

Postby Gilneas » November 20th, 2013, 6:29 pm

The change to Murkalot isn't bad. It actually addresses one of the things I didn't like about him. By himself, he wasn't terribly good. He mostly just enhanced the other pets you were using with him. Being able to take both Falling Murloc and RI makes him dangerous by himself if he's your last pet.

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Re: Stealth nerfs to Murkalot and Kovok

Postby Jgcat » November 20th, 2013, 9:56 pm

After the Kovok nerf, what are people's thoughts on the best breed for PvP. I've always preferred speed (so h/s for Kovok), but if the damage on pheromones is so much lower, perhaps h/p is the better breed.

Thoughts?

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Nagflar
 
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Re: Stealth nerfs to Murkalot and Kovok

Postby Nagflar » November 20th, 2013, 11:04 pm

NICE MOVE !! blizzard !! i support it . Start form today i will not forfeit when i see Murkalot ., kovok + aoe team.

damn stupid OP pets . if they don't nerfs them i will just quit pet battle.

pay for wIN !???

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Luciandk
 
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Re: Stealth nerfs to Murkalot and Kovok

Postby Luciandk » November 21st, 2013, 1:54 am

More like poorly designed and tested. RI did far more than the tooltip stated.

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Luciandk
 
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Re: Stealth nerfs to Murkalot and Kovok

Postby Luciandk » November 21st, 2013, 5:20 am

Im hearing new blabber about Righteous Inspiration + Haunt antics.

Start with debuffing the target with an ability like Wild Magic or Black Claw, before you swap in Murkalot. Having him RIing in the Valkyr to Haunt the target. As it appears, the damage debuffs is first added to Haunt, then the whole thing is doubled by Righteous Inspiration.

Though Wild Magic seems the better choice, as it appears to me you loose 2 ticks of Black Claw while you are swapping and setting up?

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Poofah
 
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Re: Stealth nerfs to Murkalot and Kovok

Postby Poofah » November 21st, 2013, 2:03 pm

Luciandk wrote:Start with debuffing the target with an ability like Wild Magic or Black Claw, before you swap in Murkalot. Having him RIing in the Valkyr to Haunt the target. As it appears, the damage debuffs is first added to Haunt, then the whole thing is doubled by Righteous Inspiration.


Other way around. Start Murk, RI into Valk, Haunt, freeswap to something with black claw. Additive buffs are always calculated before %-based buffs such as RI, regardless of when they were applied.

The Murk nerf wasn't particularly well thought out. Increasing the cd on RI doesn't fix the fundamental problem, which is that it's a double-damage buff that you can apply to any other ability in the game. Haunt is 50 base damage, buffed to 100 base damage with RI. This is incredibly stupid damage for the cost of 2 turns. Adding Black Claw is not the real problem here, even though it produces comically high damage. Zandalari Raptors can already accomplish that with Black Claw + Hunting Party, and similar to the raptors, you can just swap out to avoid the Black Claw part of it. The real issue is RI plus a high-damage move, and Haunt is the most egregious high-damage move still in the game.

The other half of the problem is RI + Falling Murloc. This moveset was the original PTR incarnation, and they changed it for a reason. RI + Falling Murloc has the same stacking multiplier issue that makes RI + Haunt too good, and made Supercharge+Wind-Up too good, so now when Murk is your last pet he has a 2-turn 1400 damage combo (at double speed).

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Luciandk
 
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Re: Stealth nerfs to Murkalot and Kovok

Postby Luciandk » November 21st, 2013, 3:00 pm

Ah, will have to try that combo. And im really suprised they reverted shieldstorm>Falling Murloc. Id have thought being able to use Falling Murloc+Righteous Inspiration to be far more problematic than having RI + Shieldstorm. But I guess people just couldnt cope with an aoe shield so easilly popped.

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Asphodael
 
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Re: Stealth nerfs to Murkalot and Kovok

Postby Asphodael » November 21st, 2013, 7:48 pm

Dang, haha. Had already farmed 300 games of the Trainer Title with a Murk + Kovok + Foss. Only needed a few more days.

Oh well, only delayed me about a week.

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Luciandk
 
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Re: Stealth nerfs to Murkalot and Kovok

Postby Luciandk » November 22nd, 2013, 7:07 am

Blizzard finally got around to announce the hotfix here:
http://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/2810 ... vember-19/

Pet Battle

Battle Pets
Kovok's Pheromones ability now deals 50% less damage.
Murkalot's Righteous Inspiration has had its cooldown increased to 8 rounds (up from 5 rounds).
Murkalot's Shieldstorm is now on the same tier as Righteous Inspiration.

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Ligre
 
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Re: Stealth nerfs to Murkalot and Kovok

Postby Ligre » November 22nd, 2013, 12:28 pm

Kovok's Pheromones ability now deals 50% less damage. -- Terrible move; ability is now worthless across the board.
Murkalot's Righteous Inspiration has had its cooldown increased to 8 rounds (up from 5 rounds). -- Fine with it.
Murkalot's Shieldstorm is now on the same tier as Righteous Inspiration. -- Fine with it.

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Weegie
 
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Re: Stealth nerfs to Murkalot and Kovok

Postby Weegie » November 22nd, 2013, 12:29 pm

Wish it would of only been a pvp nerf, soO easy leveling pets/alts there by lucky yi with kovok.

A disappointment :(

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Poofah
 
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Re: Stealth nerfs to Murkalot and Kovok

Postby Poofah » November 22nd, 2013, 2:32 pm

Weegie wrote:Wish it would of only been a pvp nerf, soO easy leveling pets/alts there by lucky yi with kovok.


Try Murkalot/Blackfuse Bombling/leveling pet. RI -> Armageddon -> freeswap to leveling pet -> immediately swap to Murk and clean up. Works very well against beast/flyer/critter packs; probably 6 turns on average. The downside is that you need multiple Bomblings and lots of bandages, but what else are you going to do with bandages anyway?

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Drudatz
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Re: Stealth nerfs to Murkalot and Kovok

Postby Drudatz » November 23rd, 2013, 12:58 pm

Poofah wrote:It's the same as FFF -- instead of trying to find a fair version of Supercharge+Wind-Up, they took it away entirely.
Thats cause blizzard doesnt care enough for pet battles - same with the beast of fables pets as soon as they noticed how easy they can be done by skilled pet battlers they slapped the "only 50% dmg debuff" on them wich hurts the casuals more then the skilled pet battlers...

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