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Murkalot bugged?

Discuss pet battles, strategy and theorycrafting.
3wd
 
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Re: Murkalot bugged?

Postby 3wd » November 20th, 2013, 4:09 pm

Gilneas wrote: I could not be more right. They wouldn't kneejerk nerf pets without PvP, and we'd be able to have more interesting, fun pets like Kovok.

Pet PvP has to go, since they can't seem to handle it properly and it will keep negatively effecting real pet battles.


No offense, but the above comment is so laughable.

Kovok is a more interesting and fun pet for PVE?

Are you kidding me? This game's PVE content will be more interesting and fun with a Kovok?

The PVE content for pet battle is fun for like 5 minutes and that's it.

All the PVE contents can not be more scripted and they are more boring than all of those boring dailies. Currently in this game, there isn't anything more predictable than the PVE content of pet battle, in fact, it's so predictable that people can write some simple script to do that.

Look, I have nothing against people collecting pets just for the sake of collecting it or people still enjoy the dailies they are doing everyday, but saying the changes/balance of current pet will have negative affect on "real pet battles" is just a joke.

3wd
 
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Re: Murkalot bugged?

Postby 3wd » November 20th, 2013, 5:14 pm

Rendigar wrote:
Gilneas wrote:What if Blizzard finally decides that geyser + whirlpool + howl + surge of power is just too cheesy a way to beat all of the beasts of fable? I'm sure there will be some people who'll want to whine that PvE broke the Water Spirit for PvP, too (not many, but I bet some will). Will we hear screams to remove PvE pet battles? Doubtful. And I am still waiting for them to fix "Explode" and similar abilities which ignore damage reduction - which will probably not affect PvP at all - but which will bring screams from all sorts of PvE people who love exploding on the Celestial Children and Beasts of Fable as a speed win.


Back in the last PTR testing phase of 5.4, I was the one mentioned in the PTR forum saying that the geyser + whirlpool + howl + surge of power combo will actually destroy the design of the tourney, because this combo will make most of the 4 celestials like a joke.

I suggest to change the skill set of the water spirit or maybe the chromi too, but they did not listen.

While I was disappointed, I can understand the reason behind it, while this new 5.4 tourney will be consider as the advanced content for pet battle, they still want to keep the requirement/restriction to certain level/limit only.

Without this combo, most people will definitely need more than 20-25 full level pet to finish this tourney and it will not be that easy for someone whose new to the pet battle.

I got it, hence I moved on.

Being said that, we all should keep in mind that because of the time sink and efforts spent from the "old players" and "new players", unlike the PVE raid content in this game, they can always use a gear reset button to level the playing ground, there is NONE in pet battle regarding how big is your pet army.

Therefore, this is actually the biggest obstacle when Blizz is going to design the new PVE content.

There is no LFR, flex, normal, heroic difficulties separation for PVE content, sadly the same thing can not be done for pet battle; there is no pet reset (like gear reset) for different patch/expansion, the only thing they can do is to dumb down the content or keep some back door like this for the overall interest of the players.

Do I like it? NO.

But it will exist.

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Re: Murkalot bugged?

Postby 3wd » November 20th, 2013, 5:22 pm

Gilneas wrote:
Poofah wrote:PvP is vital for pet battles' longterm health and continued support. Kovok wouldn't be a fun and interesting pet if not for PvP -- in PvE, we don't need new pets, because we beat all the tamers long ago.


Hardly. Its a sidegame of a mini-game. And if they can't do it properly, then its not worth doing at all.

Currently, they are showing they cannot do it properly (balancing both). Unless they get better, the unnecessary part is the part that needs to go.



Will you also say the PVP content in WOW is also a sidegame to the PVE content?

How much time and efforts they had put into the PVP content all these years and did they ever make everyone happy at all?

So they should also delete the PVP content for good too?

It's the human nature to exploit everything they can when it comes down to competition, of any kind. Hence there will never be a perfect way to "balance" anything, unless you will purge the human race.

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Gilneas
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Re: Murkalot bugged?

Postby Gilneas » November 20th, 2013, 6:52 pm

1. Kovok is used in 0% of the PvE strategies I have seen to date. So how is this nerf damaging PvE, exactly? This is your MAJOR complaint, so please enlighten us (rather than just Blizz bashing cuz they screwed up as usual).


Unfortunately, we will never know, because they've nerfed the ability into uselessness. It just became really available a couple of weeks ago. Who knows where it could have been used, or even where it might have been useful in WoD. Don't focus so much on Kovok, either -- that's what it is today. Could be something else the next time. Or the time after that. This won't be an isolated thing.

The point is, so far it appears that they can only do a substandard job trying to balance both sides. If they continue to be unable to deal with both, then its pretty clear which one should go. The only real glimmer of hope that they might be able to succeed at managing both is the direhorns. Those were reasonably changes that they deliberated at for a while before they made some solid changes that toned them down, but kept them useful.

4. PvP got a nerf for a rare pet (less than 1.3% of the entire registered community on Guild Ox, anyway, or 1.6% here) that was insufficiently tested. Yeah, they screwed it up, but is anyone really surprised? Especially if they ran the numbers and saw every team using a Kovok (practically) was winning. Didn't the same thing happen with the dino-runts?? Well they added a new mechanic and yep - it's broken/improperly tested.


I don't think I've said that they shouldn't have lowered its damage, or if I had it was poorly chosen words on my part. I think most people can agree with that. That's not terribly surprising. It was just overdone. There was a middleground that would have made it still worthwhile to use Pheromones, but been less than it was originally.

Sorry but you' seem to be one of those who do pvp only for the pets that come with it


Shrug, you're entitled to form an opinion of me based on very little information. Doesn't bother me.

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Eekabu
 
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Re: Murkalot bugged?

Postby Eekabu » November 20th, 2013, 7:34 pm

Gilneas wrote:
Sorry but you' seem to be one of those who do pvp only for the pets that come with it


Shrug, you're entitled to form an opinion of me based on very little information. Doesn't bother me.


Considering you saying pet pvp is cancer, Kovok is useful to pve and in addition that your armory shows how little pet pvp you do, I have indeed formed an opinion. You've managed to make your arguments look invalid.

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Gilneas
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Re: Murkalot bugged?

Postby Gilneas » November 20th, 2013, 7:52 pm

Eekabu wrote:Considering you saying pet pvp is cancer, Kovok is useful to pve and in addition that your armory shows how little pet pvp you do, I have indeed formed an opinion. You've managed to make your arguments look invalid.


Only because that's what you wanted to decide. Its only the internet, anyway.

But there's nothing at all invalid about saying that Blizzard struggles with issues of trying to balance PvE and PvP, when they have for years and have said as much.

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Re: Murkalot bugged?

Postby Brisela » November 20th, 2013, 8:07 pm

Ekubar

I got my legendary pet brawler title before 5.4 relesse and I would like to face you in pvp :D

Brisela

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Rendigar
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Re: Murkalot bugged?

Postby Rendigar » November 20th, 2013, 8:22 pm

Well, thankfully, they wont throw out Pet PvP over one person's opinion, and nobody is going to convince you that you are wrong about what they should or should not do. Ideally they will fix the purely PvP mechanics to be more balanced so that it can have some level of use. It *should* be noted that nowhere does it say every pet ability should be useful. Heck, there are dozens of them that aren't even worth using, on dozens of pets - other than as purely theme-based setups. It's only because they aren't OP that people don't complain about them.

And for those who stick to the "it's a simple mini-game" argument for "why can't they balance it". Think about this - there are how many different pets with how many different abilities? Even if you strip out the duplicates (80-90% of all moths are identical, for example) that's thousands of individual combinations AND interactions. Players have far more time on their hands (and far more hands) than any game company - if it can be broken, abused, misused, exploited, misunderstood, or screwed around with, the players will do it.

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Eekabu
 
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Re: Murkalot bugged?

Postby Eekabu » November 20th, 2013, 8:23 pm

Brisela wrote:Ekubar

I got my legendary pet brawler title before 5.4 relesse and I would like to face you in pvp :D

Brisela


*takes out Singing Sunflower, Magical Crawdad and Blossoming Ancient* Ok! ;)

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Re: Murkalot bugged?

Postby Brisela » November 20th, 2013, 9:06 pm

I dont ever use those and thanks I will start leveling them
You you hsve sone mossy and would come to the warcraftpets.com guild on madoran server we would host and make sure everyone can see the battle. I sm sure you would like that as a pvper. :D

Brisela

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Re: Murkalot bugged?

Postby Hootstwo » November 20th, 2013, 9:26 pm

Eekabu wrote:
Gilneas wrote:
Sorry but you' seem to be one of those who do pvp only for the pets that come with it


Shrug, you're entitled to form an opinion of me based on very little information. Doesn't bother me.


Considering you saying pet pvp is cancer, Kovok is useful to pve and in addition that your armory shows how little pet pvp you do, I have indeed formed an opinion. You've managed to make your arguments look invalid.

I'm with Eekabu.

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Eekabu
 
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Re: Murkalot bugged?

Postby Eekabu » November 20th, 2013, 10:55 pm

Brisela wrote:I dont ever use those and thanks I will start leveling them


I never use them either and I immediately forfeit when I come across that team.

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Maleric
 
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Re: Murkalot bugged?

Postby Maleric » November 21st, 2013, 9:27 am

Gilneas wrote:If they continue to be unable to deal with both


Blizzard has done a pretty good job with nerfs to battle pets so far. Most of the previously nerfed pets are still viable. I think Murkalot, Kovok, and Fluxfire Feline are really the only pets that have ever been totally nerfed in to the ground. And I'm not a big pet PvE fan, but I think all of those were more PvP pets anyway.

So the tired "keep your PvP out of my PvE" (or vice versa) meme that's been going around this game for years really isn't applicable in the context of pet battles.

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Re: Murkalot bugged?

Postby Brisela » November 21st, 2013, 9:54 am

Ekubar

I have nit even once run into the team you mentioned none of yhose pets I have is at level25.
I only pvp level my pets so there are only limited number I have so those hardcore pets battled to level 25 will have a chance to have fun with your team :D

Brisela

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Re: Murkalot bugged?

Postby Luciandk » November 21st, 2013, 9:56 am

I wouldnt say Murk or Kovok have been nerfed to the ground.

Murk still works with Righteous Inspiration to buff another pet, or himself for Falling Murloc if last man alive. He have uses, just not blatantly overpowered more. Dont claim murk was nerfed into uselessness, it was mainly bugfixing RI, and it still have issues with Haunt.

And Kovok is still decently strong with Poison Fang and Puncture Wound and can keep himself alive with Digest Brains. But yes, he definitely lost it as an upper tier pvp pet. But the nerf was needed, Pheromones was too good.

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Re: Murkalot bugged?

Postby 3wd » November 21st, 2013, 10:08 am

Luciandk wrote:I wouldnt say Murk or Kovok have been nerfed to the ground.

Murk still works with Righteous Inspiration to buff another pet, or himself for Falling Murloc if last man alive. He have uses, just not blatantly overpowered more. Dont claim murk was nerfed into uselessness, it was mainly bugfixing RI, and it still have issues with Haunt.

And Kovok is still decently strong with Poison Fang and Puncture Wound and can keep himself alive with Digest Brains. But yes, he definitely lost it as an upper tier pvp pet. But the nerf was needed, Pheromones was too good.


actually, kovok is more effective when using poison fang and black claw, this combo is so deadly and it can counter lots of mech pet effectively.

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Liopleurodon
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Re: Murkalot bugged?

Postby Liopleurodon » November 21st, 2013, 8:04 pm

Just chiming in to say that this is confirmed as intentional. https://twitter.com/TheCrafticus/status ... 3121409024

I do hope we see an AOE block like that on tames in the future, though that's mostly for pvp so I'm running away before I get drawn into this one.

{edit} posted prematurely! Hotfixes for tomorrow just went out, and all this stuff is listed: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/10932273

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Gilneas
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Re: Murkalot bugged?

Postby Gilneas » November 21st, 2013, 8:29 pm

Maleric wrote: I think Murkalot


The ability shuffle on Murkalot actually makes him a bit better as an individual pet and weaker as a utility pet.

I wouldnt say Murk or Kovok have been nerfed to the ground.


But don't bother using Pheromones.

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Digem
 
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Re: Murkalot bugged?

Postby Digem » November 22nd, 2013, 6:58 am

I guess what annoys me most is the stealth nerf.
At least let us know it is coming makes it look fishy and they are hiding something .
Also, come pet breeding and say I have the first epic of some pet will they nerf that if enough people whine?
This is pvp after all everything does have a counter they don't have to nerf everything do they?

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Maleric
 
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Re: Murkalot bugged?

Postby Maleric » November 22nd, 2013, 9:39 am

Luciandk wrote:I wouldnt say Murk or Kovok have been nerfed to the ground.

Murk still works with Righteous Inspiration to buff another pet, or himself for Falling Murloc if last man alive. He have uses, just not blatantly overpowered more. Dont claim murk was nerfed into uselessness, it was mainly bugfixing RI, and it still have issues with Haunt.

And Kovok is still decently strong with Poison Fang and Puncture Wound and can keep himself alive with Digest Brains. But yes, he definitely lost it as an upper tier pvp pet. But the nerf was needed, Pheromones was too good.


I think swapping RI and Shieldstorm to share the same slot was a bit more than a bug fix. Regardless, though, I was assuming as argued by the poster I was responding to that Kovok and Murkalot have been nerfed in to the ground. If not, great - that makes my point that pet nerfs have generally been reasonable even stronger!

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