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Same Speed: Who goes first?

Discuss pet battles, strategy and theorycrafting.
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Yooda
 
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Same Speed: Who goes first?

Postby Yooda » November 8th, 2013, 9:59 am

I have been doing the pet battles now for a couple months now and I still can't figure out if there is an exact method to determine which pet will go first if they have the same speed. I am sure if there is a non-random method one of you guys have it figure out...

Can you let me in on the secret?

-Yooda

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Liopleurodon
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Re: Same Speed: Who goes first?

Postby Liopleurodon » November 8th, 2013, 10:12 am

RNG. It's a random dice roll, and it can be streaky. But if you use your ability that hits more if you go first, you go second ( a joke, but it totally seems that way).
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Kendrah
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Re: Same Speed: Who goes first?

Postby Kendrah » November 8th, 2013, 10:18 am

Yooda wrote:Can you let me in on the secret?


RNG, unless it's one of those 'this move goes first' things. I've noticed if it's a choice between that surge attack and another 'this comes first move' then the surge attack goes first.

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Yooda
 
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Re: Same Speed: Who goes first?

Postby Yooda » November 8th, 2013, 10:34 am

Well it is disappointing to hear that it is just random...

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Sellys
 
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Re: Same Speed: Who goes first?

Postby Sellys » November 8th, 2013, 4:58 pm

Liopleurodon wrote:RNG. It's a random dice roll, and it can be streaky. But if you use your ability that hits more if you go first, you go second ( a joke, but it totally seems that way).


It actually doesn't matter if you go first or second if you use a move like Flurry that gets you an extra hit if you're faster, because the ability text says "...if you're faster than the enemy." not "...if you go before the enemy." Even if you go first you're not faster, so your stuff will only hit 1-2 times instead of 2-3.

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Re: Same Speed: Who goes first?

Postby Rendigar » November 9th, 2013, 9:48 am

The thing to remember is if you have the same speed as your opponent who goes first alternates during the fight. So if on turn 1 you win the RNG and go first, on turn 2 you will go second, on turn 3 you will go first, and turn 4 you will go second. If you lose the coin toss and go second on turn 1 then you'll go first on turns 2 and 4 and second on turn 3.

I do NOT know if the RNG happens at the start of the fight or at each pet swap, I have not tried testing it in that much detail. The 1 time I was in this situation was vs Zao in the tourney, I think I had 2 raptors that were the same speed and the alternation stayed constant thru him killing my 1st raptor. I went 2nd then 1st, then died, new raptor came in and when 2nd then 1st... But that's a fuzzy memory and frankly w/o a LOT of repeats it would be hard to tell if initiative is rolled on each pet swap until/unless the order changed (and I've seen 50% chances happen 4-9 times in a row vs Whispering Spirit's Moth using Moth Balls way too often).

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Dragonwizard
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Re: Same Speed: Who goes first?

Postby Dragonwizard » November 9th, 2013, 10:13 am

Rendigar wrote:The thing to remember is if you have the same speed as your opponent who goes first alternates during the fight. So if on turn 1 you win the RNG and go first, on turn 2 you will go second, on turn 3 you will go first, and turn 4 you will go second. If you lose the coin toss and go second on turn 1 then you'll go first on turns 2 and 4 and second on turn 3.

I do NOT know if the RNG happens at the start of the fight or at each pet swap, I have not tried testing it in that much detail. The 1 time I was in this situation was vs Zao in the tourney, I think I had 2 raptors that were the same speed and the alternation stayed constant thru him killing my 1st raptor. I went 2nd then 1st, then died, new raptor came in and when 2nd then 1st... But that's a fuzzy memory and frankly w/o a LOT of repeats it would be hard to tell if initiative is rolled on each pet swap until/unless the order changed (and I've seen 50% chances happen 4-9 times in a row vs Whispering Spirit's Moth using Moth Balls way too often).



That is incorrect, there have been plenty of times where I have gone first twice+ in a row or been stuck going second 2+ times in a row all with the same pet and no swapping. It is a new roll every turn.
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Re: Same Speed: Who goes first?

Postby 3wd » November 9th, 2013, 11:46 am

Kendrah wrote:
Yooda wrote:Can you let me in on the secret?

I've noticed if it's a choice between that surge attack and another 'this comes first move' then the surge attack goes first.



This is incorrect.

For all those "go first" skills, there are no secret formulas behind the mechanic, it's just a flat amount of speed added to the base speed of the pet in that round, and I believe the number is 1625.

So say if your direhorn has a speed of 252, and use charge in this round, you will always go first against any pet which doesn't have any go first skill, because there is no pet in the game with base speed of 1877.

However, say your pet is an Idol and he uses reflection this round, his base speed is 244, plus 1625 will be equal to 1869, then if he is playing against a direhorn and the direhorn will use charge, 1877 speed charge will beat out the 1869 reflection, hence the direhorn will go first and the Idol will still get hit even though he will be using reflection.

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Yooda
 
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Re: Same Speed: Who goes first?

Postby Yooda » November 9th, 2013, 1:00 pm

If those pets have the same speed; RNG decides who goes first....

/endthread

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Kendrah
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Re: Same Speed: Who goes first?

Postby Kendrah » November 10th, 2013, 3:58 pm

3wd wrote:For all those "go first" skills, there are no secret formulas behind the mechanic, it's just a flat amount of speed added to the base speed of the pet in that round, and I believe the number is 1625.


Yeah, I kinda figured it would be like that. It is sort of secret, though. Or, at least, Blizzards way of getting around the 'this moves first' in the dailies. All those epic and legendary pets are very fast. XD

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Re: Same Speed: Who goes first?

Postby Derad » November 13th, 2013, 8:01 pm

GM's pets go first and hit harder and super super rarely miss even in the worst of conditions for them. Only when I can see the name of my opponennt will I say that GM's are not anonymously playing in this fashion.


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