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The Murkapult

Discuss pet battles, strategy and theorycrafting.
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Alien
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Re: The Murkapult

Postby Alien » November 9th, 2013, 2:12 pm

Murkalot probably needs some adjustment. Sure, I seem to have a ridiculous win-loss ratio this weekend. I'm sure once the devs get back from BlizzCon they'll start working on something.

However, I see that some people here did the same thing I did, just slotted Murkalot into what was already an arguably broken group. Just last week, remember when it seemed like you were seeing Kovoc, Fossilized Raptor, Unborn Val'kyr everywhere? (I don't think it was just me.) I made my own team along those lines and felt it was a little overpowered. AoE was slightly out of control.

Then Murkalot comes along and the way he's designed, he doubles the damage on three aoe hits(pheromones twice, bonestorm once) in an already perhaps overpowered combination. Yes, that's definitely broken. But It wouldn't be nearly so bad, IMHO, if AoE wasn't already out of whack to start with. Rather than bring down the two-handed nerf hammer on Murkalot, bring a smaller hammer down on him and another smaller hammer down on AoE. That would probably solve it without making anyone weep for the loss of either.

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Poofah
 
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Re: The Murkapult

Postby Poofah » November 9th, 2013, 5:05 pm

It's not a general AoE problem, it's really just Pheromones and Bonestorm, and sort of Armageddon -- all the other AoEs are modest damage at best. These abilities simply provide too much raw damage, regardless of being single-target or multi-target, and therefore they're the most abusive with a doubling ability like RI. If you nerf the big AoEs, RI users will just migrate toward the next-biggest hitters (Ghostly Bite etc.).

Kovok is a pain even without Murk, but given his scarcity I don't think people got much experience at countering him prior to Murk showing up. The community might have eventually figured Kovok out, but now it's impossible to separate the possible overpoweredness of Kovok from the blatant overpoweredness of Murk.

Hootstwo
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Re: The Murkapult

Postby Hootstwo » November 10th, 2013, 9:36 am

There are just too many ways to abuse Murkalot. I've got a team now that I have about a 97% win rate since I've added Murkalot to it. And the only losses I've had were vs other teams with (surprise surprise) Murkalot on them.

I'm genuinely feeling a little guilty playing this team it's so OP. About 50% of the teams I play against forfeit after the 5th turn, they just realize there's simply no way they're going to win.

I'm going to continue playing this team, simply because I want the wins towards the achievements, but I don't really derive an significant pleasure from it.

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Maleric
 
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Re: The Murkapult

Postby Maleric » November 10th, 2013, 10:34 am

Alien wrote:Rather than bring down the two-handed nerf hammer on Murkalot, bring a smaller hammer down on him and another smaller hammer down on AoE. That would probably solve it without making anyone weep for the loss of either.


Totally agree. I think removing the speed boost from Murk's damage bonus ability would more or less bring that pet in to line. Then separately, Bonestorm and Pheremones both need something like a 10-25% nerf.

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Re: The Murkapult

Postby Brisela » November 10th, 2013, 10:51 am

There is no need to nerf as thete wpuld be epic pet and best breed pet countering it
For those who has one which is most of us doing pet battles we all hsve the same advantsge


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Highmitsu
 
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Re: The Murkapult

Postby Highmitsu » November 10th, 2013, 1:29 pm

Brisela wrote:There is no need to nerf as thete wpuld be epic pet and best breed pet countering it
For those who has one which is most of us doing pet battles we all hsve the same advantsge


Brisela

How can you defend a pet like this? The metagame should not revolve around having one particular support pet. Not even a little. Honestly, I don't mind it when a good pet comes from something like this, but not when it's absurdly strong in combination with some comps. Changes I'd like to see is the speed bonus going away from the RI buff, and the RI buff itself only applying to the switched pet. Not all ongoing damage.

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Shagina
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Re: The Murkapult

Postby Shagina » November 10th, 2013, 1:40 pm

I think most of us agree that Murkalot needs some nerfs, I think it is still too early to say how heavily he needs to be nerfed. The pet has only been out for a few days, people have not yet been given the time to adapt and counter him properly. Give it a few more weeks and we will have more precise knowledge of his strengths and how to counter him efficiently.

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Luciandk
 
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Re: The Murkapult

Postby Luciandk » November 10th, 2013, 3:04 pm

People is always ready to cry foul and nerf when they encounter something they cant immediately deal with. Instead of taking their time to consider the problem.

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Re: The Murkapult

Postby Brisela » November 10th, 2013, 3:36 pm

Your counter is 2 ps blight hawks and 1 hh unborn
Or you can tey with 3 unborn hh breed

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Re: The Murkapult

Postby Brisela » November 10th, 2013, 3:38 pm

Ok for those wjo has one murkalot eberyone here suppiose to anyways so your pvp on the same equal ground with advantage etc

Rhose who decided not to have one hmm pet collectors anyways you can capture wild blight hawks and unborn in game
If you meed to knpw rotation and ability to use let me know


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Luxxy
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Re: The Murkapult

Postby Luxxy » November 10th, 2013, 8:11 pm

Luciandk wrote:People is always ready to cry foul and nerf when they encounter something they cant immediately deal with. Instead of taking their time to consider the problem.

Totally agree, everytime something seems to difficult that they can not immediately defeat people cry nerf. ya some can be annoying but really? there are counters out there. I think personally people really should just give it some time and see what people come up with and how things play out instead of wanting a nerf right off. If after awhile there is still an issue then maybe ya nerf it but I do not agree with it needing an asap nerf until its been out for a little.

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Re: The Murkapult

Postby Brisela » November 10th, 2013, 8:33 pm

The counter was already out and the person used murkolot fossilized hatchking and mechanical dragonling did not see it coming
I even posted the counter here. First queue against a win and there is mothing to it
In 5.4 unborn even got a buff what more do you adk for :D

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Re: The Murkapult

Postby 3wd » November 10th, 2013, 11:14 pm

Brisela wrote:Your counter is 2 ps blight hawks and 1 hh unborn
Or you can tey with 3 unborn hh breed

Brisela


Either you have no clue about how to deal with a murk team or your opponent is just terrible.

3 undead team is probably the worst choice again a kovok and a heavy aoe team.

3 valk? yeah right, the kovok doesn't even need to use Pheno, just poison fang and black claw all your valk and will watch them 1 by 1 die at the back row.

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Re: The Murkapult

Postby 3wd » November 10th, 2013, 11:18 pm

Luciandk wrote:People is always ready to cry foul and nerf when they encounter something they cant immediately deal with. Instead of taking their time to consider the problem.


The truth is out there, go play some pvp and you will see it yourself.

Before the murk was out, one of the more successful teammate for kovok will be spirit crab, which you can use the amplify magic similar to the same as inspiration to buff the aoe, however, clearly now you can see the difference between the amplify magic and inspiration - double the damage buff plus extra 100% speed buff, not to mention the murk will always go first.

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Se5s
 
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Re: The Murkapult

Postby Se5s » November 11th, 2013, 2:49 am

Luxxy wrote:
Luciandk wrote:People is always ready to cry foul and nerf when they encounter something they cant immediately deal with. Instead of taking their time to consider the problem.

Totally agree, everytime something seems to difficult that they can not immediately defeat people cry nerf. ya some can be annoying but really? there are counters out there. I think personally people really should just give it some time and see what people come up with and how things play out instead of wanting a nerf right off. If after awhile there is still an issue then maybe ya nerf it but I do not agree with it needing an asap nerf until its been out for a little.


i thought the point to pet battles in general is that any team should be able to beat any other team if the plays are played correctly. but this is WoW, that's just not how bliz does it. every new pet is a flavor of the month and it's purposely overpowered to get people wanting it. then when everyone has it, they smack it with the nerf bat and bring out another new pet that ends up being overpowered so we all try to get that one. and to those of you saying that it just takes time to figure out how/what/when: direhorns and minefield/deathgrip won until they were nerfed, hard.

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Poofah
 
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Re: The Murkapult

Postby Poofah » November 11th, 2013, 3:05 pm

Se5s wrote:every new pet is a flavor of the month and it's purposely overpowered to get people wanting it. then when everyone has it, they smack it with the nerf bat and bring out another new pet that ends up being overpowered so we all try to get that one.


This isn't the worst way to balance things though. They make new and interesting pets/abilities, and see if the community can come up with reasonable counters: if we can't, they nerf. Ideally this would happen on PTR, but it's just not practical, because you need a large and active community to explore all the possibilities. And if they only made new pets with obviously balanced movesets, then pet battles would get stale in a hurry.

This system works a lot better when you address issues quickly though--which obviously they're not always good about doing (force-swap/Direhorn for all of 5.3; uber-Valk for 8 weeks now). FFF got fixed much faster, although that might be due to it being a much bigger gamebreaker at the time. Unlike Valk/Kovok, at least for Murk they've already asked for balance impressions/suggestions, so they're aware of peoples' complaints.

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Shagina
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Re: The Murkapult

Postby Shagina » November 11th, 2013, 4:55 pm

I still think people are jumping the gun a bit when it comes to crying for nerfs. While I do agree that Murkalot is currently far too strong, I think the community has a long way to go still before all the counters are found, polished and published. The Val'kyr is a great example, she's too strong in her current form, but the counters are out there and she's becoming less popular as people are finding ways to deal with her. Murkalot will probably need a nerf, but I think the community needs to accept that for him to get balanced (and not just nerfed into oblivion, which seems to be what many people would want) we need to sit down and play a lot of games with and against him.

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Re: The Murkapult

Postby Jerebear » November 11th, 2013, 10:20 pm

I think I am still trying to understand the mechanics of righteous inspiration. When cast, if the user is slower than Murkapult but faster than the swapped in toon, will they hit the swapped in toon or do they get a free swap?

My initial impressions: I'm not a huge fan of the AoE shield lasting 8 rounds. I understand the it has a long cooldown of 8 rounds as well, but it seems a bit tough to counter along with righteous inspiration. Righteous Inspiration itself isn't too horrible, but I wish it was a damage debuff on the enemy rather than a buff on the player (they could still get the speed as a buff).

I had my wife try Brisela's suggested counter (I didn't have two levelled up blighthawks), but I must be missing something as it wasn't as effective as I had hoped. We only had two tries on it though, so I am sure we were just missing something simple.
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Poofah
 
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Re: The Murkapult

Postby Poofah » November 12th, 2013, 3:23 am

Jerebear wrote:I think I am still trying to understand the mechanics of righteous inspiration. When cast, if the user is slower than Murkapult but faster than the swapped in toon, will they hit the swapped in toon or do they get a free swap?


RI is a 'goes first' move, so what happens is this:

when you select RI as your move for the turn, Murk's speed goes to 1838, which is faster than the opponent unless they chose Surge/Deflection and are naturally faster. So RI swaps Murk out and swaps in your highest-current-health pet; your team gains the RI buff; and then the opponent's move for the turn goes off -- if it's an attack, it hits the newly swapped-in pet. So it's not a free swap the way Feign Death is. Then the next round begins, with your team having the RI buff until end of turn.

Jerebear wrote:I had my wife try Brisela's suggested counter (I didn't have two levelled up blighthawks), but I must be missing something as it wasn't as effective as I had hoped. We only had two tries on it though, so I am sure we were just missing something simple.


Blighthawk would counter Murk if Murk would just stay and fight, but that's never going to happen since he can always opt to swap out without getting hit. Roots are also not as effective as you'd think, since RI goes off first and he gets away before getting rooted.

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Re: The Murkapult

Postby 3wd » November 12th, 2013, 11:47 am

Jerebear wrote: Righteous Inspiration itself isn't too horrible, but I wish it was a damage debuff on the enemy rather than a buff on the player (they could still get the speed as a buff).

I had my wife try Brisela's suggested counter (I didn't have two levelled up blighthawks), but I must be missing something as it wasn't as effective as I had hoped. We only had two tries on it though, so I am sure we were just missing something simple.


If RI will put a damage buff on your opponent, it will make this the worst skill in the game and while will you lose 1round and put a 100% dmg buff to your opponent?

2 blighthawks is not the answer to a murk team, no matter your choice will be corpse eating or the ghostly bite. you just do not have enough HP to last that long, not to mention the kovok has 276 speed and will be going first against any type of bighthawks. Poison fang + black claw on each of your undead and the kovok doesn't even need to use aoe.

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