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Crow P/S vs Crow S/S? (+ racial benefit) which is best?

Discuss pet battles, strategy and theorycrafting.
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Crow P/S vs Crow S/S? (+ racial benefit) which is best?

Postby Fubar » August 5th, 2013, 7:41 am

I would like and appreciate your opinion on which is best to include in a PvP team?

Is the Crow P/S (flight racial increases speed anyway) best? Or would you go for the Crow S/S?

Thoughts and reasons please?


Also do you like the idea of a Emerald Proto-Whelp with a Crow? Ideas about good combos would be nice too.
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Re: Crow P/S vs Crow S/S? (+ racial benefit) which is best?

Postby Luciandk » August 5th, 2013, 11:39 am

Take both!

As I told you ingame, P/S is popular because it adds a smidgen extra power while retaining high speed due to flyer racial.

But once P/Sers starts to show up, they will be outsped by an S/S crow.

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Re: Crow P/S vs Crow S/S? (+ racial benefit) which is best?

Postby Yamum » August 7th, 2013, 11:17 pm

P/B.

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Re: Crow P/S vs Crow S/S? (+ racial benefit) which is best?

Postby Fubar » August 8th, 2013, 3:34 am

Yamum wrote:P/B.


Why?
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Re: Crow P/S vs Crow S/S? (+ racial benefit) which is best?

Postby Luciandk » August 8th, 2013, 6:34 am

Fubar wrote:
Yamum wrote:P/B.


Why?


Hrm, a P/B have slightly more health, and slightly less speed than a P/S crow. As I can see it, the lack of speed becomes less of an issue with flying racial.

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Re: Crow P/S vs Crow S/S? (+ racial benefit) which is best?

Postby Papazol » August 8th, 2013, 8:43 am

I use 10/20 breed. Realy good.
My team for it - gilnean raven and scourged whelpling. Antiparty - magic+ele.

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Re: Crow P/S vs Crow S/S? (+ racial benefit) which is best?

Postby Fubar » August 8th, 2013, 8:49 am

Papazol wrote:I use 10/20 breed. Realy good.
My team for it - gilnean raven and scourged whelpling. Antiparty - magic+ele.


WTF is 10/20 breed? The widely used formats is P/P, P/S, P/H for example. Can you tell me what breed you mean without making up a new type of format?

EDIT: He is talking about P/B
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Re: Crow P/S vs Crow S/S? (+ racial benefit) which is best?

Postby Yamum » August 8th, 2013, 9:07 am

Luciandk wrote:Hrm, a P/B have slightly more health, and slightly less speed than a P/S crow. As I can see it, the lack of speed becomes less of an issue with flying racial.

Correct. I feel points in speed are wasted on a flyer. You already have a 9/10 chance of being the fastest. And also, in a sense, health = speed for flyers.

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Re: Crow P/S vs Crow S/S? (+ racial benefit) which is best?

Postby Papazol » August 8th, 2013, 10:08 am

Fubar wrote:WTF is 10/20 breed? The widely used formats is P/P, P/S, P/H for example.
[/quote]
WTF is P/P format?! Warcraftpets database uses for pets breed numbers, not leters. I dont care where do you find your "widely used formats", but it isnt here.

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Re: Crow P/S vs Crow S/S? (+ racial benefit) which is best?

Postby Maizing » August 8th, 2013, 10:39 am

Refarding breed formats:

Both breed formats are widely used. The number format is actually older than the letter format. The letter format has gained popularity, however, because many people (myself among them) find it easier to understand. There is no need to insult fellow posters for preferring one format over the other.

For ease of use, here is a comparison chart showing both formats and how they affect stat values:

3/13 - B/B - .5/.5/.5
4/14 - P/P - 0/2/0
5/15 - S/S - 0/0/2
6/16 - H/H - 2/0/0
7/17 - H/P - .9/.9/0
8/18 - P/S - 0/.9/.9
9/19 - H/S - .9/0/.9
10/20 - P/B - .4/.9/.4
11/21 - S/B - .4/.4/.9
12/22 - H/B - .9/.4/.4

Edit: Take a look at the WarcraftPets.com Pet Breeds and Breed IDs page, they talk about both formats.

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Re: Crow P/S vs Crow S/S? (+ racial benefit) which is best?

Postby Yamum » August 8th, 2013, 1:20 pm

Feralsynapse wrote:With a S/S speed you will always be the fastest thing on the field, even *after* going below 50% health and thus you can almost always abuse Alpha Strike for extra damage. You can't do that with a lower speed breed. True someone can always use a +1 speed attack (charge etc) but you can't count that as a speed "loss".

There are plenty of flyers faster than an S/S Crow. After going below 50% health an S/S Crow will only have 325 speed, plenty of pets faster than that. Above 50% health, you may be the fastest but you'll have less health and less power. And not everyone takes Alpha Strike. And yes, I can still benefit from Alpha Strike provided I'm not going up against a faster flyer, i.e. 90% of the time.* And a Trihorn Charge, etc, is a speed "loss" for you, as any advantage you may have gained from being faster has been completely negated.

Ultimately the point is: how fast do you need to be? I run a P/P Yellow Moth and the only thing faster than me is another flyer. There is a 3/10 chance that my opponent will use a flyer and a 1/3 chance that he will open with that flyer.* In my opinion, S/S is the worst breed for a flyer. I'll take a B/B over an S/S.

* Not advanced probability calculations I know, but you get the idea.

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Re: Crow P/S vs Crow S/S? (+ racial benefit) which is best?

Postby Peanutty » August 8th, 2013, 1:43 pm

I have both a P/B and P/S and use both for pvp and pve. I don't care much for S/S breeds in general as they sorta hit like wet noodles and as others have mentioned, the flying racial will boost your speed for at least part of the fight. Besides if I'm using a crow I'm trying to make the opponent miss, rather than trying to outspeed them.

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Re: Crow P/S vs Crow S/S? (+ racial benefit) which is best?

Postby Fubar » August 8th, 2013, 2:00 pm

Maizing wrote:Refarding breed formats:

Both breed formats are widely used. The number format is actually older than the letter format. The letter format has gained popularity, however, because many people (myself among them) find it easier to understand. There is no need to insult fellow posters for preferring one format over the other.


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'Refarding' Maizing:

I read your comment with interest and amusement! I admire the enthusiasm and vigour with which you have come to the defence of Papazol; the force is indeed strong in you. However "with great power comes great responsibility" and I feel there is a danger you have condemned me too quickly.

Allow me to make my defence; the OP (original post) was made using the letter format (of breed) and I felt it was quite reasonable to expect a response to use the same format. If you felt there was an insult in my preferring and asking for a response to use the same format as the question that it was asked in then I feel you may have misunderstood the etiquette of forums and the interwebz. I would be happy to arm you with the awesome power of knowledge! (a.k.a "give a man a fish and you feed him for a day" etc...).

Please allow me to buy this book for you: http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B000WPXTE2.

Would you prefer via Kindle or post? Click here.

Please do let me know! (and thanks for playing.)
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Re: Crow P/S vs Crow S/S? (+ racial benefit) which is best?

Postby Yamum » August 9th, 2013, 3:12 am

Feralsynapse wrote:It also comes down to personal preference and how *you* use the pet. Both breeds are completely viable-sorry. I've won plenty of pvp matches with a S/S Crow. What work for you might not work for another player. It changes server to server and fight to fight. The pet's teammates are *just* as important as the pet itself and you aren't taking that into consideration. Don't discredit someone right off the back just because they have a different opinion.

How exactly do you use these pets, besides using them to defeat other pets?

The original question was not in regard to viability but to what is the best choice for a PvP team, and as I and others have already explained, S/S is not the best choice. You may win some games with S/S but you will win more with P/B, as I have reasoned above.

I have not made any attempt to discredit you, only to show that S/S is a poor choice for a flyer. And I believe I have shown that to be true.

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Re: Crow P/S vs Crow S/S? (+ racial benefit) which is best?

Postby Fubar » August 9th, 2013, 5:11 pm

Yamum wrote:S/S is not the best choice. You may win some games with S/S but you will win more with P/B, as I have reasoned above.

I have not made any attempt to discredit you, only to show that S/S is a poor choice for a flyer. And I believe I have shown that to be true.


I've just used a battle stone on the P/B following your advice. I did feel you had made a good case.
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Re: Crow P/S vs Crow S/S? (+ racial benefit) which is best?

Postby Maizing » August 9th, 2013, 6:17 pm

Fubar wrote:
Maizing wrote:Refarding breed formats:

Both breed formats are widely used. The number format is actually older than the letter format. The letter format has gained popularity, however, because many people (myself among them) find it easier to understand. There is no need to insult fellow posters for preferring one format over the other.

[b]'Refarding' Maizing:

I read your comment with interest and amusement! I admire the enthusiasm and vigour with which you have come to the defence of Papazol; the force is indeed strong in you. However "with great power comes great responsibility" and I feel there is a danger you have condemned me too quickly.

Actually, my post was directed at both of you. While you may have initiated the unnecessary rudeness, the other poster replied in kind.

If your intent had been to ask that the other poster use the same format as the rest of the posters in this thread, that could have been accomplished without the insults... and no doubt with better results.

Just because most of the internet is a sewer, does not mean that we can't treat each other with courtesy in this little corner of it.

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Re: Crow P/S vs Crow S/S? (+ racial benefit) which is best?

Postby Iamwhatis » August 9th, 2013, 7:42 pm

So here is my 2 cents:

Actual experience in battles is the most important indicator.
I only use the SS. My logic is; because this pet benefits from speed (AS) and if you are faster you will go first which means an extra turn against all but the undead. I say this because someone with experience with both breeds has the experience I don’t have and they should know better than me. But this is the way I see it.

If the Crow’s hit themselves this is what I think it would look like:

_Health___1400_______________________________1400_______________1465
_________SS 325 speed______________________PS 289 speed________PB 273 speed

CD_______560________________________________618________________618

NS_______420________________________________463________________463

AS_______350_Peck #’s with AS would be worse____309 _______________309

AS_______350

Total_____1680*______________________________1390______________1390

*enemy crow dead / most pets dead

New enemy pet comes in. With 325 speed the odds are very good you will go first and get a 350 hit off.

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Re: Crow P/S vs Crow S/S? (+ racial benefit) which is best?

Postby Fubar » August 10th, 2013, 12:07 am

Maizing wrote:Just because most of the internet is a sewer, does not mean that we can't treat each other with courtesy in this little corner of it.

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Cool story bro; can I gift you http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B000WPXTE2 ?
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