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Celestial tournament - Challenge increased

Discuss pet battles, strategy and theorycrafting.
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Luciandk
 
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Celestial tournament - Challenge increased

Postby Luciandk » July 30th, 2013, 3:48 pm

While browsing the US forums I came across this interesting thread:

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/9572767387


So...all bosses, in addition to 50% damage reduction, cannot take a hit of more than 35% of their max life.

As a result, you cannot apocalypse Chi-ji, cannot surge of power after howling for any significant amount.


Seems to be aimed at hardcountering cheese tactics to keep them as a challenging encounter. Though as far I heard, only the four Celestial elite pets have the 50% damage reduction, and Id hazard a guess that the extra magic racial is only for them as well.

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Adumbledore
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Re: Celestial tournament - Challenge increased

Postby Adumbledore » July 30th, 2013, 7:51 pm

This certainly puts an interesting spin on things. I wonder how long it's going to take until enough people complain that they nerf the encounters?
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Re: Celestial tournament - Challenge increased

Postby Luciandk » July 30th, 2013, 8:08 pm

Adumbledore wrote:This certainly puts an interesting spin on things. I wonder how long it's going to take until enough people complain that they nerf the encounters?


Honestly wouldnt be suprised. People have hard to adjust to change and try new strategies. Just look at the whining after Beasts of Fable was buffed. Though the Celestial Tournament havent been available in an easier form unlike the BoF, so people will not have had a chance with easy mode.

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Adumbledore
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Re: Celestial tournament - Challenge increased

Postby Adumbledore » July 31st, 2013, 12:34 am

Yeah I don't see the Tournament going to Live the way it is now. Too many people are going to complain about it that they'll nerf them just to shut the complainers up.
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Quintessence
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Re: Celestial tournament - Challenge increased

Postby Quintessence » August 1st, 2013, 9:11 am

Just wanted to pop in and mention that senior game designer, Jonathan LeCraft, mentioned on Twitter that a nerf to Chi-Chi (but I think he meant Chi-Ji) will be coming in a future PTR build.

So although they buffed the last four, at least one will be toned down a little.

No idea if this change was to just appease the majority (or vocal minority), or if the nerf was warranted. I haven't made any attempts at the Chi-Ji encounter (pre or post buff) so I can't really form an opinion on it.
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Adumbledore
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Re: Celestial tournament - Challenge increased

Postby Adumbledore » August 1st, 2013, 5:28 pm

Quintessence wrote:Just wanted to pop in and mention that senior game designer, Jonathan LeCraft, mentioned on Twitter that a nerf to Chi-Chi (but I think he meant Chi-Ji) will be coming in a future PTR build.

So although they buffed the last four, at least one will be toned down a little.

No idea if this change was to just appease the majority (or vocal minority), or if the nerf was warranted. I haven't made any attempts at the Chi-Ji encounter (pre or post buff) so I can't really form an opinion on it.


I knew they weren't going to be going live as they were. lol
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Re: Celestial tournament - Challenge increased

Postby Gilneas » August 1st, 2013, 6:51 pm

Quintessence wrote:Just wanted to pop in and mention that senior game designer, Jonathan LeCraft, mentioned on Twitter that a nerf to Chi-Chi (but I think he meant Chi-Ji) will be coming in a future PTR build.


He meant Chi-Chi -- that's the name of the Chi-Ji hatchling. :)

Quintessence wrote:No idea if this change was to just appease the majority (or vocal minority), or if the nerf was warranted. I haven't made any attempts at the Chi-Ji encounter (pre or post buff) so I can't really form an opinion on it.


He was easily the most difficult due to his heal & Deflection style move (plus Fire Quills hitting for a great deal). I think most people would say he was going to get toned down a little since he was a step above the rest.

I don't think it will get nerfed a great deal as a whole though. With the barrier to entry (X # of pets leveled), its really supposed to be the last, most difficult step of pet battle PvE in Mists.

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Re: Celestial tournament - Challenge increased

Postby Adumbledore » August 1st, 2013, 8:19 pm

I don't think it will get nerfed a great deal as a whole though. With the barrier to entry (X # of pets leveled), its really supposed to be the last, most difficult step of pet battle PvE in Mists.


I hope so. It would be nice to have a challenge when it comes to pet battles. I know some people still think the BoF quests are hard, but they really aren't.
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Re: Celestial tournament - Challenge increased

Postby Poofah » August 2nd, 2013, 12:43 pm

Gilneas wrote:He was easily the most difficult due to his heal & Deflection style move (plus Fire Quills hitting for a great deal). I think most people would say he was going to get toned down a little since he was a step above the rest.


Probably so. Even still, people had strats to beat him already, including stuff like Arcane Winds/Mana Surge which is pretty straightforward and readily available.

It's tough to balance because the entire challenge of PvE pet battles is the strategy, not the execution. So for example Pandaren Earth Spirit seems overwhelmingly hard, until you think to yourself "ohhh use a rabbit", and then you never lose to him again. It's the same with some of the Celestials and it'll be the same for the next ptr and etc. They seem crazy hard, then somebody finds the right strategy and circulates it, and then they're trivial. The trouble is that until people hit on the solution, everyone screams nerf.

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Re: Celestial tournament - Challenge increased

Postby Azrile » August 3rd, 2013, 1:43 am

Exactly, the pet battles can´t be hard unless you have a very limited stable or they include a lot of RNG into it, in which case, it still isn´t hard, just takes more attempts.

My plan is simple. I am not going to read any strats for these things until the last day of the first week if I am really struggling. I have almost 200 level 25s and consider myself fairly intelligent. I should at least beat my head against a wall for 6 days before cheating (strats). Of course, I don´t want to miss out on a token by failing for the entire week LOL

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Re: Celestial tournament - Challenge increased

Postby Pärrak » August 6th, 2013, 4:12 am

I just close PTR and come back to The Internet trying to find a way to defeat Chi Chi and couldn't find any helping tips.

First tournament stage is not hard if you have a nice stable, some cool combinations but easy doable even with the pets Blizzard gives for PTR.

I only fought the same 3 trainers those days, son not sure what the others will have. The difficult is around Elemental Pandarian Spirits, nothing too serious; fex. Undead with Beats attacks, Magic creatures with Human abilities, etc...

Then comes the hard part, Chi Chi & Co.

They're not like FoB, hit hard, heals a lot or reduce dmg, can't be hit for more than 35% but are doable in the long run, quite a chalenge to find the right tactics, except for Chi Chi, that crane is sick.

I'm not sure if it's the limited supply of pets that Blizzard provides for PTR but I'm quite sure that even with my menagerie of 540 lvl 25 pets, Chi Chi is hardly doable.

It Heals around 340 per tick during 3 roounds with Tranquility.

Hit for around 700 with fire quills unless you're using critters.

It also dodges every 3 turns.

And yes, can't be hit for more than 35%, apart from the 50% dmg reduction.

Add up the dodge + almost 1000 heal + can't be nuked + hits you for around 700 and you will start guessing how hard it is, and ofc it will almost strike first all the time.

So atm, basically you can't beat it with nuking tactic (debuff+high nuke ability) only 35% dmg, survival tactics waiting for Apocalipse, CC tactics, or any tactic I tried, and I've tried several.

I don't know if they will nerf it, the rest are quite ok, a challenge, very funny to manage it, but Chi Chi, just play in other league, way too wrong atm, I think it's overtuned.

If any has beaten it, please, share how it was done, I can't guess how to handle it and is the only I miss to finish the tournament and I can't came with a right tactic.

P.D: Ginny gave me a cool link to battlenet forums topic/7860747350 (can't link it) :( I will try the Chi Chi tactic. Dumb me that didn't think of self hitting abilities.....

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Re: Celestial tournament - Challenge increased

Postby Madsen » August 6th, 2013, 6:43 am

The classic beast of fable setup worked fine for me.
Val'kyr, water spirit, chrominius.
curse of doom
unholy ascension (no longer gives you another round)
geyser
whirlpool
switch to chrominius
howl
(bite?)
surge

edit: just tested it to be sure. It can't fail.

Also why did they change this? http://i.imgur.com/5xOVN7e.jpg
It was good how it worked last week.

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Re: Celestial tournament - Challenge increased

Postby Luciandk » August 6th, 2013, 2:44 pm

Because you are not meant to heal your pets in the scenario, hence the need for a large stable to enter.

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Pärrak
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Re: Celestial tournament - Challenge increased

Postby Pärrak » August 7th, 2013, 2:04 am

Tried the Spectral Porcupette tactic for Chi Chi and was piece of cake.

Luckily I had bones to get one on ptr, Blizzard didn't gave me on on their pets setup.

Spirit spikes ravaged Chi Chi after debuffing it with Shimmering Wyrmling after Tranquility finished.

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Ril
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Re: Celestial tournament - Challenge increased

Postby Ril » August 7th, 2013, 4:57 am

The limited stable on PTR makes testing kind of hard, imho, since there's usually much less choice than what I, and presumably most people here, have on live... No I'm not cageing 50+ level 25 Pets prior a char copy just to test the tournament.

I've downed the tournament trainers pretty easily by just picking what looked like something of a hard counter for each pet. I didn't have enough counters for the celestials but they look pretty hard. I've tried to fight against the tiger, which seems to require wheather changers and mortal strikes, so I thought crows are ideal (call darkness + beast weakness), but I didn't have any so I couldn't test.

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Re: Celestial tournament - Challenge increased

Postby Luciandk » August 7th, 2013, 11:18 am

Hrm, seems a Mana Wyrmling is a much better choice than Shimmering Wyrmling, due to the Shimmering being breed 3 and them sharing their skillsets. And Id say a breed 7 Mana Wyrmling is superior.

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Re: Celestial tournament - Challenge increased

Postby Maizing » August 7th, 2013, 11:30 am

A buff of this type only becomes an issue if it is combined with additional damage reduction or healing. As long as the Celestial Tournament pets we fight don't heal or shield, I will have no issue with them (I never used the apocalypse tactic in my own battles with the beasts of fable... but I also never fought them again after getting the achievement for The Longest Day).

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Re: Celestial tournament - Challenge increased

Postby Gilneas » August 7th, 2013, 3:17 pm

Maizing wrote:A buff of this type only becomes an issue if it is combined with additional damage reduction or healing. As long as the Celestial Tournament pets we fight don't heal or shield, I will have no issue with them (I never used the apocalypse tactic in my own battles with the beasts of fable... but I also never fought them again after getting the achievement for The Longest Day).


Nothing wrong with heals/shields on elite pets. Its another element of the challenge to deal with. At that point its largely just "what 3 counter pets do the most damage!", which is largely what the 5.2 BoF were.

And most (if not all) of the Celestials do have a heal, and I think the dragon uses a shield at least, btw.

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Re: Celestial tournament - Challenge increased

Postby Madsen » August 7th, 2013, 4:44 pm

Luciandk wrote:Because you are not meant to heal your pets in the scenario, hence the need for a large stable to enter.

Last week she would heal your pets and reset the tournament. It is stupid that you have to leave the scenario, heal, rejoin the scenario.


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