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Upcomming Pet changes on PTR

Discuss pet battles, strategy and theorycrafting.
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Luciandk
 
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Upcomming Pet changes on PTR

Postby Luciandk » July 13th, 2013, 12:06 am

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/101588 ... -6_11_2013

Tiny Twister: The Sandstorm ability has been replaced with Call Lightning.

Battle Pet abilities with a component that increases in damage every time it hits will no longer reset when an opponent's pet gets swapped. (Arcane Blast, Frog Kiss, etc.)

Death Grip cooldown increased to 4 rounds (up from 3 rounds), damage has been reduced by 50%, and hit chance has been reduced to match similar abilities.
Nether Gate damage has been reduced by 33%.
Sweep damage has been reduced by 33%.

Now that should make Tiny Twister more interesting, though its lack of a breed 4 would still hold it back I think.
And some -QUITE- serious nerfs to the overused force swap moves. Will be quite good to have them toned down.

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Yamum
 
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Re: Upcomming Pet changes on PTR

Postby Yamum » July 13th, 2013, 3:37 pm

Thanks for the info.

Good to see Frog Kiss and Arcane Blast getting fixed.

I wonder where all the noobs who run Giant Bone Spider / Fiendish Imp / Netherspace Abyssal will turn to now? Back to KL Runts?

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Poofah
 
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Re: Upcomming Pet changes on PTR

Postby Poofah » July 13th, 2013, 4:00 pm

Yamum wrote:I wonder where all the noobs who run Giant Bone Spider / Fiendish Imp / Netherspace Abyssal will turn to now? Back to KL Runts?


Direhorns (even post-nerf).

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Nivrax
 
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Re: Upcomming Pet changes on PTR

Postby Nivrax » July 14th, 2013, 4:40 am

Damage nerf on swap abilities was needed, but I'd rather have it deal 0 damage, go first and had 100% hit on swap. Atm, it is similar to things like Kick, except you have 10% chance when using it for 'intended' purpose (switching a hardcounter to your pet rather than dealing free damage) to miss making you instantly loose in first turn.

Nether Fearie dragon might get interesting now... j/k, humanoids everywhere.

Twister might be nice, Lightning Storm, spam Wild Winds, got Bash for slow (undead) pets.

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Azrile
 
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Re: Upcomming Pet changes on PTR

Postby Azrile » July 14th, 2013, 10:33 pm

Poofah wrote:
Yamum wrote:I wonder where all the noobs who run Giant Bone Spider / Fiendish Imp / Netherspace Abyssal will turn to now? Back to KL Runts?


Direhorns (even post-nerf).


This. I actually liked playing against swap teams because it felt more like chess. Besides BS and imp teams.. the other thing I see all the time are runts and direhorns and they just require no strategy.. either you are comped for them, or you lose. There are also a lot of Unborn Vakries being used now. They will become more strong by default now.. since their counter (critters) cannot be used because of how often you run into direhorns and direhorns will become more favored because of the swap team nerfs.

I don´t get the meaningless nerf to direhorns. Who cares if you have a 1 round cd when the other attack you have also has a 1 round cd. people usually alternate them anyway now.

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Yamum
 
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Re: Upcomming Pet changes on PTR

Postby Yamum » July 15th, 2013, 1:01 am

Call Lightning teams seem to be gaining popularity.

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GilroyKilroy
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Re: Upcomming Pet changes on PTR

Postby GilroyKilroy » July 15th, 2013, 12:36 pm

Yamum wrote:Call Lightning teams seem to be gaining popularity.


Teamed with a Clockwork Gnome's Build Turret can be a pretty effective team :) Especially when the pet used to Call Lightning is a Dragon Kite using Volcano

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Chuckthulu
 
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Re: Upcomming Pet changes on PTR

Postby Chuckthulu » July 15th, 2013, 1:12 pm

Rock(/egg/nut/banana) Barrage can be a nightmare when teamed with Call Lightning(CL). Quake and Batter also.
Or for funsies, team a penguin with the CL, and use Slippery Ice and Ice Lance.
One last route: Team your CL with a dot team, preferably an ooze for Corrosion/Acidic Goo (or both)

My cent and a half :)

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Rhonstifor
 
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Re: Upcomming Pet changes on PTR

Postby Rhonstifor » July 15th, 2013, 1:51 pm

Those are welcome changes. Direhorn nerf should be primal cry chance to stun/interrupt down from 50% to 25%, along with charge damage lowered.

SS Imp speed should be lowered to 325.

Death grip nerf seems overdone, but bone spider can singlehandedly beat many teams. One extra round CD probably would have been enough considering how many sandstorm teams are played.

Sandstorm needs a nerf too.

Magical Crawdad wish needs to be nerfed as well.

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Iskren
 
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Re: Upcomming Pet changes on PTR

Postby Iskren » July 15th, 2013, 2:34 pm

Yamum wrote:Call Lightning teams seem to be gaining popularity.

And then comes the big bad Anubisath Idol and rape your whole strategy.
If anything is getting nice buff in 5.4 its pets like infninity whelping (getting double buff there p/s will be a serial killer)
Swap teams will die cuz they count on doing a lot of free dmg with swap skill.
Direhorns also will slowly die out cuz u cant no longer spam OP charge(if not die at least playing with them the way we do now will be much harder).

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Luciandk
 
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Re: Upcomming Pet changes on PTR

Postby Luciandk » July 15th, 2013, 3:09 pm

How is Infinite Whelpling buffed?

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Azrile
 
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Re: Upcomming Pet changes on PTR

Postby Azrile » July 15th, 2013, 10:04 pm

Iskren wrote:
Yamum wrote:Call Lightning teams seem to be gaining popularity.

And then comes the big bad Anubisath Idol and rape your whole strategy.
If anything is getting nice buff in 5.4 its pets like infninity whelping (getting double buff there p/s will be a serial killer)
Swap teams will die cuz they count on doing a lot of free dmg with swap skill.
Direhorns also will slowly die out cuz u cant no longer spam OP charge(if not die at least playing with them the way we do now will be much harder).


Call lightning and dot sunreaver
turret -clockwork Gnome
Earthquake - personal world destroyer

This is my standbye team when I start seeing 3 direhorn teams too often. A decent team against anything but shield/sandstorms... which I think is going to be the next counter team I have to build against.

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Kring
 
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Re: Upcomming Pet changes on PTR

Postby Kring » July 16th, 2013, 2:42 am

Luciandk wrote:How is Infinite Whelpling buffed?


The dragonkin racial activates at 50% with 5.4 instead of 25% as of now.

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Nivrax
 
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Re: Upcomming Pet changes on PTR

Postby Nivrax » July 16th, 2013, 5:09 am

Want a CL team, get Peddlefeet. Thundering Jade Serpent Cyclone + CL -> Peddle and spam 600 dmg Barrages. I've killed some pets from backline damage alone. Of course, single Sandstorm will make it useless...

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Iskren
 
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Re: Upcomming Pet changes on PTR

Postby Iskren » July 16th, 2013, 12:18 pm

Kring wrote:
Luciandk wrote:How is Infinite Whelpling buffed?


The dragonkin racial activates at 50% with 5.4 instead of 25% as of now.

+ sleeping gas dmg is not reseted on pets swap ! O_O

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Luciandk
 
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Re: Upcomming Pet changes on PTR

Postby Luciandk » July 16th, 2013, 5:05 pm

Iskren wrote:
Kring wrote:
Luciandk wrote:How is Infinite Whelpling buffed?


The dragonkin racial activates at 50% with 5.4 instead of 25% as of now.

+ sleeping gas dmg is not reseted on pets swap ! O_O


Yes, I can see how that would be useful. Good thing Ive long leveled one of them, should be worth trying them again come 5.4

Humm. With the AI habit of switching as soon a pet gets CCed, it would mean the Infinite Whelpling doesnt loose damage potential and can keep casting Sleeping Gas.


Another thought that have occured to me. Come 5.4 with the Elemental racial buff to not ignore good weather effects, how about Call Lightning + Terrible Turnip? Tidal Wave and Sons of the Root in particular should work well with Call Lightning.

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Exel
 
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Re: Upcomming Pet changes on PTR

Postby Exel » July 16th, 2013, 5:44 pm

You guys have a very short memory if you think Direhorns and swap teams are bad now. They are nothing compared to the sickness called FFF.

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Poofah
 
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Re: Upcomming Pet changes on PTR

Postby Poofah » July 16th, 2013, 7:37 pm

Exel wrote:You guys have a very short memory if you think Direhorns and swap teams are bad now. They are nothing compared to the sickness called FFF.


Maybe but that doesn't really matter. Being less bad than FFF doesn't make them ok.

Direhorns have higher-than-normal damage and a bunch of utility on top of it. The 5.4 nerf isn't enough, as a few people have noted, and hopefully they'll address this a little further before 5.4 launches. Nether Gate/Sweep nerf is probably just about right, but Death Grip nerf is too severe.

Nivrax wrote:Damage nerf on swap abilities was needed, but I'd rather have it deal 0 damage, go first and had 100% hit on swap. Atm, it is similar to things like Kick, except you have 10% chance when using it for 'intended' purpose (switching a hardcounter to your pet rather than dealing free damage) to miss making you instantly loose in first turn.


I don't think this is the right fix, because speed is an expensive stat and there needs to be a benefit to going first (e.g. Kick, Dodge, stuns, etc.). Kick is a great comparison, because Death Grip is almost identical except it does 5 extra damage and swaps the current pet out. Clearly that's too good: reducing the damage by 10 *or* increasing the cooldown to 4 rounds would probably bring it in line. Both is probably too much: both *plus* an accuracy reduction is way too much, and very aggravating. Tactical abilities like this shouldn't have a tiny chance to miss and therefore destroy your entire strategy (imo, ofc).

Yamum wrote:Call Lightning teams seem to be gaining popularity.


Call Lightning is definitely fun in a world of Direhorns. But Call Lightning doesn't really get any buffs in 5.4, and will have the same issues that it does now: it's completely hosed by Sandstorm. This issue is going to get worse, not better, because Living Sandling is going to suddenly become very solid when it benefits from its Sandstorm shield (and has additional large advantages over a mech-based CL team).

Kring wrote:
Luciandk wrote:How is Infinite Whelpling buffed?


The dragonkin racial activates at 50% with 5.4 instead of 25% as of now.


Dragons will be doing nasty damage with this change: probably the highest damage potential among any pets now. For example if Lil Deathwing hits with Cataclysm (858) on turn 1, and this brings you below 50% (pretty likely), then he hits with Tail Whip for 700 on turn 2. Infinite Whelpling will be excellent with his stacking damage/CC plus heal; Nexus Whelpling's damage will be really crazy, but locks you in for 3 turns. The only thing is that dragons won't have much flexibility, because they need to use their nuke on the turn the racial activates in order to get any benefit. So they'll be especially vulnerable to CC/avoidance, but if they hit you, it's going to really hurt.

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Yamum
 
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Re: Upcomming Pet changes on PTR

Postby Yamum » July 17th, 2013, 1:13 am

IMO Dragons are getting buffed too much. Last thing we need is more people using Anubisath Idol...

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Poofah
 
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Re: Upcomming Pet changes on PTR

Postby Poofah » July 17th, 2013, 2:06 am

Yamum wrote:IMO Dragons are getting buffed too much.


This is very possible. But the old version of their racial was pretty bad and this is not a huge step up, assuming that the dragonkin buff only lasts 1 turn and can't refresh (the way it works currently). It might still be too good, and there are definitely going to be times when a dragon KOs you from 40% or 45% health, if you can't avoid the hit. But I think it might be good to have some pressure in the metagame to have avoidance--although it's true that Anubisath will be extra good if dragons become popular, especially with Deflection, and I don't like the idea of even more Sandstorm teams.

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