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Alternatives to Pet Death

Discuss pet battles, strategy and theorycrafting.
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Dementron
 
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Alternatives to Pet Death

Postby Dementron » July 20th, 2012, 11:56 pm

There's a thread on the Beta Pet Forums about changing the language of the battle system so that pets "surrender" or something, anything other than actually dying. Since it's on the Beta forums, I believe you can only post if you're actually in the beta.

Here's the link:
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/6147175125?page=1

I'd love for some more people to support my suggestion of changing "died" to the vaguer "defeated" (I'm Kupari on that forum, btw), but even if you outright disagree with me, drop by and give your two cents.

Let's give this topic some attention. I'm tired of feeling like I'm mass murdering bunnies and kittens.

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Re: Alternatives to Pet Death

Postby GormanGhaste » July 21st, 2012, 7:33 am

I agree and added my support to the topic.
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Re: Alternatives to Pet Death

Postby Lysi » July 21st, 2012, 10:45 am

I'm not on beta so can't post there, but I certainly think it's cruel as it is--particularly since so many of the companion pets are depicted as young. They should at least exclude the domestic cats and dog if the battles are going to stay this violent, the media could have a field day if a screen shot came out with domestic pets fighting to the death. (The mastiff hunter pet doesn't have the same stigma, because working dogs are used today in hunting and war. But the pet battles aren't fighting an enemy out of necessity, or for food, or anything like that, they're fighting for no reason.) Is there some forum for MoP suggestions besides the beta one?

I think they should make it some kind of challenge or practice fighting, something that won't actually harm the pets. Show the battle with "points" down instead of health bars down. When I started to hear all the emphasis on healing, about it being hard to heal even after the battle is over, that was very discouraging. I thought this was supposed to be a "fun thing" not serious. At one point Blizzard said no humanoid children would be included in battles, I presume because it's taken such a violent direction, but the pet battles page features art with an oracle hatchling? http://us.battle.net/wow/en/game/mists- ... pet-battle So I don't know what's up with that.

Humanoid young and domestic pets should be excluded, in my opinion. Unless they change it to some kind of playful practice, and that would be my real preference for the whole thing to be depicted as non-violent, and then nothing needs to be excluded. The combatants should even do some kind of acknowledgement at the end, to show it was an honorable duel, like a bow or salute or something depending on what kind of animation works for that particular critter, lol.
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Re: Alternatives to Pet Death

Postby Lysi » July 21st, 2012, 1:02 pm

I made a thread on the regular forum. I cringe to see what will come of it, lol. Anyway feel free to weigh in -

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/6147285811
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Re: Alternatives to Pet Death

Postby Feathered » July 21st, 2012, 2:03 pm

We are playing the game World of WARcraft right? You know, where people kill stuff? What difference does it make? It's just a game full of pixels after all. It's not like people are going around killing ACTUALL LIVING animals (which Im completely against). Besides, making the pets "faint" or surrender makes it even more like Pokemon. Lets have some differences please.

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Re: Alternatives to Pet Death

Postby Dementron » July 21st, 2012, 7:35 pm

Feathered wrote:We are playing the game World of WARcraft right? You know, where people kill stuff? What difference does it make? It's just a game full of pixels after all. It's not like people are going around killing ACTUALL LIVING animals (which Im completely against). Besides, making the pets "faint" or surrender makes it even more like Pokemon. Lets have some differences please.


When I saw you pulling out the tired "It's World of WARcraft" line, I was really hoping you were being sarcastic. Sadly, this does not seem to be the case.

Since I doubt you bothered to read the thread in question, I'll repost what I had to say on this topic.

"Saying the game is World of WARcraft is no excuse. I'm at war with the Scourge. I'm at war with the Burning Crusade, and Twilight's Hammer, and anybody else who is trying to wipe out Azeroth. I do not want to be at war with people because I want their land or resources, or because my (character's) ancestors had a grudge against theirs, or because I just don't like their species, and I certainly don't want to be at war with the world's wildlife just for kicks. I admit, I'm a peacenik. The way I play the game, when it's not about saving the world, it might as well be World of Hugs and Funny Hats."

Furthermore, this is supposed to be a fun, lighthearted minigame. To me, there's nothing fun about killing scores of innocent animals. No, there's nothing fun about pretending to either. I think many WoW pet enthusiasts are also animal lovers irl and would feel the same way.

As for terminology, there are many options besides the word "faint". Obviously, using that word would be a problem, since it's so closely tied to Pokemon, but the Pokemon games have absolutely no claim to the idea that fights don't have to be to the death.

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Re: Alternatives to Pet Death

Postby Lysi » July 21st, 2012, 9:00 pm

It's not World of Jobcraft, and yet we have professions. It's not World of Fairecraft, but we have the Darkmoon Faire. It's not World of Petcraft, and yet we have cute little pets following us around. It's not World of Holidaycraft, Achievementcraft, etc, not everything in the game is War, nor does it need to be. I wonder what the overall feeling amongst those paying their monthly sub mostly to collect pets would be, well, no way to know. I just wanted to say my piece over on the forums, so there's a chance a Blizzard employee will contemplate it. I figure now is the last chance, before MoP is released. Maybe a minor change would make the pet battles palatable for everyone.
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Re: Alternatives to Pet Death

Postby Kaiyou » July 21st, 2012, 10:45 pm

I agree that they should change it. I love animals, so it always makes me feel bad that the little pets die(especially ones like the cats.) I also feel bad when my companions die, like I let them down by letting them get killed. Even though they can get revived, I still don't like it.

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Re: Alternatives to Pet Death

Postby Feathered » July 22nd, 2012, 12:31 pm

Dementron wrote:To me, there's nothing fun about killing scores of innocent animals. No, there's nothing fun about pretending to either. I think many WoW pet enthusiasts are also animal lovers irl and would feel the same way.


I've lived on a small hobby farm with horses, dogs, cats and reptiles my entire life. All my cats are rescues that needed either a good home or medical attention. Just because I'm indifferent about pixels on a screen potentially "dieing" does NOT mean I don't care for animals. The only reason I play WoW is to collect pets. All Im saying is that they are just pixels on a screen so why QQ about terminology of a mini game?

If they were real breathing living animals I would completely understand but they're not so Im having an issue seeing what all the fuse is about.

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Re: Alternatives to Pet Death

Postby Lysi » July 22nd, 2012, 1:21 pm

Whatever Blizzard decides, it's their game and I'm find with that. I don't expect everything in the game to match my specifications, any more than other player. But my question is, if it's no fuss, if it's no big thing, then what's wrong with changing the term so everyone will be able to enjoy the mini game?
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Re: Alternatives to Pet Death

Postby Feathered » July 22nd, 2012, 1:36 pm

Lysi wrote:Whatever Blizzard decides, it's their game and I'm find with that. I don't expect everything in the game to match my specifications, any more than other player. But my question is, if it's no fuss, if it's no big thing, then what's wrong with changing the term so everyone will be able to enjoy the mini game?



You said it best yourself, It's Blizzards game. They're gonna do what they want to do. There's nothing really wrong with changing it. I'm just putting in "my two cents" to the thread as was asked by, and I quote:

Dementron wrote:I'd love for some more people to support my suggestion of changing "died" to the vaguer "defeated" (I'm Kupari on that forum, btw), but even if you outright disagree with me, drop by and give your two cents.


I couldn't care either way, just seems like there's a lot of upset people about some pixels and I'm not following why. Seems like a waste of emotion to me to get so bothered by a game. It is just a game after all (a lesson I had to learn when Blizz announced something I didn't agree with and I was livid. Had to learn that I can't let a game run my life. It is what it is).

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Re: Alternatives to Pet Death

Postby Lysi » July 22nd, 2012, 10:42 pm

Feathered wrote:I couldn't care either way, just seems like there's a lot of upset people about some pixels and I'm not following why. Seems like a waste of emotion to me to get so bothered by a game. It is just a game after all (a lesson I had to learn when Blizz announced something I didn't agree with and I was livid. Had to learn that I can't let a game run my life. It is what it is).

I don't let a game run my life, either, but I guess I look at it the other way around. I don't let the game push me to do things that aren't fun for me, since I'm only playing to have fun. For example, when Blizzard added the guild perks, I thought about whether Lysi should join another guild to get Lil' Tarecgosa. But I don't like how Blizzard in effect killed off so many small guilds, by setting up the perks in a way that makes them much easier to get in a huge superguild. I didn't want the game to dictate how I play and how I socialize, so I kept all my toons in the small guild I set up for friends years ago. Blizzard can run guilds however they like, just because I don't like it doesn't mean I'll let it ruin my fun. I play the way that makes me happy, and being in my little guild was more important to me than the pet and the other perks. I don't know if I'll like the final implementation of the pet battles or not, but if I don't like them, I won't battle. I posted on the official forums now, before it's set in stone--I pay my monthly sub and have as much right to my opinion as anyone else--so why not? But if I don't like the pet battles, I'll have plenty of other things to keep me happy. I collect teddy bears irl, so I'm looking forward to playing a panda. (0:3
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Re: Alternatives to Pet Death

Postby Dementron » July 23rd, 2012, 12:58 am

Lysi, I'm sorry the people on the general forums have been such turds. If it's any consolation, people on the beta forums are generally much more supportive of at least changing the language so the pets don't die.

@Feathered: It's not just pixels, it's an idea. I've been really looking forward to pet battles, but I don't like that idea that I (as my character) am out killing animals for my own amusement. It really kills a lot of the fun for me. I'm certainly not letting the game run my life, but I am very disappointed by a certain feature of a favorite hobby, and I'd like to change it.


On another note, I've gotten to the point that every time someone writes "It's World of WARcraft", I want to punch them in the mouth (this is coming from someone who is generally a pacifist). Seriously, it's only called that because the series started out as real-time strategy games. And yes, there is lots of war, but for me, it's war against evil forces seeking to destroy the world. I have no reason to be at war with Bambi.

*Sigh* I need to read forums less. I'm getting misanthropic again.

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Re: Alternatives to Pet Death

Postby Feathered » July 23rd, 2012, 1:37 am

Lysi wrote:I pay my monthly sub and have as much right to my opinion as anyone else--so why not?


I never said people weren't entitled to their opinion. But it seems that mine is not welcome here lol Heaven forbid, I guess, that someone disagrees even when there was an open invite to give ones opinion. Oh well. Here's hoping that the majority of people end up satisfied with how all this pans out. Best of luck in your endeavors.

And it is just a game and sadly they are just pixels, at least that's what they are for me. Apparently that means I get to be judged. *shrugs* Good to know. Don't have opinions that go against the crowd or you get railroaded. Sad thing is, as I said, I don't care either way. Was just expressing my opinion on the matter.

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Re: Alternatives to Pet Death

Postby Lysi » July 23rd, 2012, 1:49 am

Dementron wrote:Lysi, I'm sorry the people on the general forums have been such turds. If it's any consolation, people on the beta forums are generally much more supportive of at least changing the language so the pets don't die... *Sigh* I need to read forums less. I'm getting misanthropic again.

With any forum or online group, the bigger the venue, the more negative the posts. Smaller groups tend to be more civil. So I knew what I was getting into posting on the official forum. Also, I should have done it during the week rather than the weekend, just so a Blizzard employee would be more apt to see it. I might send the thread link to some friends, in case they want to post before it vanishes. (If you really want to give up on humanity, read the comments on online news stories. OMG it makes your head spin around like the kid in the exorcist! There are some thoughtful comments, but most reasonable voices just seem to shy away from those things.)
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Re: Alternatives to Pet Death

Postby Lysi » July 23rd, 2012, 1:50 am

Feathered wrote:
Lysi wrote:I pay my monthly sub and have as much right to my opinion as anyone else--so why not?

I never said people weren't entitled to their opinion. But it seems that mine is not welcome here lol Heaven forbid, I guess, that someone disagrees even when there was an open invite to give ones opinion. Oh well. Here's hoping that the majority of people end up satisfied with how all this pans out. Best of luck in your endeavors.

And it is just a game and sadly they are just pixels, at least that's what they are for me. Apparently that means I get to be judged. *shrugs* Good to know. Don't have opinions that go against the crowd or you get railroaded. Sad thing is, as I said, I don't care either way. Was just expressing my opinion on the matter.

I'm happy to agree to disagree. Sorry if I gave you the wrong impression. The "why not post my opinion" was talking about the official WoW forum, it seems that people can't agree to disagree over there, lol.
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Re: Alternatives to Pet Death

Postby Dementron » July 23rd, 2012, 3:11 am

Feathered wrote:I never said people weren't entitled to their opinion. But it seems that mine is not welcome here lol Heaven forbid, I guess, that someone disagrees even when there was an open invite to give ones opinion. Oh well. Here's hoping that the majority of people end up satisfied with how all this pans out. Best of luck in your endeavors.

And it is just a game and sadly they are just pixels, at least that's what they are for me. Apparently that means I get to be judged. *shrugs* Good to know. Don't have opinions that go against the crowd or you get railroaded. Sad thing is, as I said, I don't care either way. Was just expressing my opinion on the matter.


I'm sorry if I gave the impression I was judging you. I don't feel the same way about the game that you do, but I understand where you are coming from, and I meant what I said when I invited people to give their opinion whether they agreed with me or not (I feel it would be a bit sneaky to try to just send over people who supported my arguments. I would make a terrible politician). Looking back, I can see how I would appear hostile. It wasn't you personally that I was upset with so much as people saying, again and again and again, "It's World of WARcraft", as if that explains and justifies everything, any time someone expresses a desire for something about the game to be a little less violent or depressing. People who say that are often very derogatory towards the posters they are responding to, and it's been getting under my skin. I feel this game is meant to appeal to a lot of different sorts of players, and that it doesn't all have to be dark and full of death. (I was serious about the "World of Hugs and Funny Hats" bit.)

Again, I apologize for appearing to attack you. I really didn't mean to. I was set off by a particular phrase, not by you disagreeing with me.

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Re: Alternatives to Pet Death

Postby Feathered » July 23rd, 2012, 4:50 pm

Lysi wrote:I'm happy to agree to disagree. Sorry if I gave you the wrong impression. The "why not post my opinion" was talking about the official WoW forum, it seems that people can't agree to disagree over there, lol.


:) Me to.

Dementron wrote:Again, I apologize for appearing to attack you. I really didn't mean to. I was set off by a particular phrase, not by you disagreeing with me.


I can see where you're coming from. And it's not that I disagree. I personally play WoW to kill stuff and in doing so collect pets. I mean lets face it. "Critter Kill" and numerous other pets come from farming other creatures all just to have a pet. :) So really, even though the act of having pets is non-violent, the act of aquiring pets is a violent one. Guess thats why the battle system as is doesn't bother me.

Also, if I was coming off as rude, which im often told I do, I apologize for that. I just don't take nicely to hypocrytical behavior (which is how it seemed to me). Anyways, Im all good to "agree to disagree" and I did mean it when I wished you luck in your endeavour. I hope Blizz does make it appealing to as many players as possible. I was just having issues with why this change seemed like the "end all of end alls" if it wasnt implimented since for me it wouldn't change wether I played or not. Just seems like a lot of wasted emotion over something I deem to be minor.

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Re: Alternatives to Pet Death

Postby Ril » July 27th, 2012, 6:53 am

i'm glad to see that someone brought up this topic already. i was thinking the same, though it's maybe not a big deal. however, a "surrender" animation would improve the whole thing greatly.

pet battles are supposed to be playful and fun, not dead-serious war. having small, innocent creatures fighting against each other for their master's glory is ethically questionable enough... :D

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Re: Alternatives to Pet Death

Postby Imthedci » July 30th, 2012, 9:21 am

The update with the new trainer emotes has made it really had for me to battle Lindsay. Now when you defeat one of her pets she says "Why did you k-kill my bunny...". And she has three pets, so you get to hear it multiple times.

Still haven't come up with an answer for her... :cry:

It reminds me of that quest in Grizzly Hills... "Don't go towards the light, Mr Floppy!" :cry:

You have to excuse me... I think.. I think I have something in my eye...

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