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Removed scanning of enemy pet abilities in pvp

Discuss pet battles, strategy and theorycrafting.
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Shandu
 
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Removed scanning of enemy pet abilities in pvp

Postby Shandu » March 16th, 2013, 3:58 pm

"Official:
Blizzard prevents addons from scanning pet abilities in PVP duels as of patch 5.2."

So now you just have to either know what every pet has as abilities, or know which types are weak/strong against their pets and hope they don't have attacks which are strong against you even if their pet is weak to yours.

Not being able to see the opponents moves before they use them just adds another layer of RNG to the system and I don't think that is particularly fun, it isn't strategy/fun/interesting to have to go look up every attack of every viable pet in the entire game along with it's cooldown.

My opinion, but what do you guys think?

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Taurnek22
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Re: Removed scanning of enemy pet abilities in pvp

Postby Taurnek22 » March 17th, 2013, 3:24 am

Shandu wrote:"Official:
Blizzard prevents addons from scanning pet abilities in PVP duels as of patch 5.2."

So now you just have to either know what every pet has as abilities, or know which types are weak/strong against their pets and hope they don't have attacks which are strong against you even if their pet is weak to yours.

Not being able to see the opponents moves before they use them just adds another layer of RNG to the system and I don't think that is particularly fun, it isn't strategy/fun/interesting to have to go look up every attack of every viable pet in the entire game along with it's cooldown.

My opinion, but what do you guys think?



In my opinion ... It's PVP. Why should you get to see what their moves could be? Do you get to see what that Pally is going to do to you in a BG?

I run a darkness team. I love it. It wins(most of the time). When it doesn't, I don't sit there and say, "Damn! If I could see what they were planning I'd change my team"

It actually doesn't add any RNG, since you are playing another player,
Once you're locked into a PVP pet battle you can't change anything anyway, so, what are you whining about?


Again ... Just my opinion.

P.S.
You do know what the definition of strategy is, right?

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Shandu
 
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Re: Removed scanning of enemy pet abilities in pvp

Postby Shandu » March 17th, 2013, 10:00 am

Taurnek22 wrote:
Shandu wrote:"Official:
Blizzard prevents addons from scanning pet abilities in PVP duels as of patch 5.2."

So now you just have to either know what every pet has as abilities, or know which types are weak/strong against their pets and hope they don't have attacks which are strong against you even if their pet is weak to yours.

Not being able to see the opponents moves before they use them just adds another layer of RNG to the system and I don't think that is particularly fun, it isn't strategy/fun/interesting to have to go look up every attack of every viable pet in the entire game along with it's cooldown.

My opinion, but what do you guys think?



In my opinion ... It's PVP. Why should you get to see what their moves could be? Do you get to see what that Pally is going to do to you in a BG?

I run a darkness team. I love it. It wins(most of the time). When it doesn't, I don't sit there and say, "Damn! If I could see what they were planning I'd change my team"

It actually doesn't add any RNG, since you are playing another player,
Once you're locked into a PVP pet battle you can't change anything anyway, so, what are you whining about?


Again ... Just my opinion.

P.S.
You do know what the definition of strategy is, right?


Did write a long reply, but you used the term "Whining" so there isn't really much point. Complaining about a feature =/= Whining. A lot of people DO plan around what other teams will use, In fact, I don't know many people who just use the same "team" and just keep playing over and over with that no matter who they come up against in the pvp queue.

P.S Why didn't you quit your "whining" over reflect working with pump etc? Why should it have reflected pump. See what i did there?

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Deepfriedegg
 
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Re: Removed scanning of enemy pet abilities in pvp

Postby Deepfriedegg » March 18th, 2013, 5:10 am

Taurnek22 wrote:It actually doesn't add any RNG, since you are playing another player,
Once you're locked into a PVP pet battle you can't change anything anyway, so, what are you whining about?
.....
You do know what the definition of strategy is, right?


- according to you strategy equals guessing? According to me it is making educated decisions. In 5.2 even if I look up possible abilities of my enemy, I still dont know which of those did my enemy choose.
- not knowing enemy move doesnt make PvP harder, it makes it more dependent of random choices rather than strategic ones
- once you are locked into PvP battle, you are still able to switch pets. Knowing enemy moveset adds strategic choices of when to switch what pet in order to minimize incoming damage or maximize outgoing damage

According to you playin chess without knowing what the enemy team´s pieces moves are (until he uses the piece) makes the game more strategic. In OP´s an my opinion it adds randomness.

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Gromagrim
 
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Re: Removed scanning of enemy pet abilities in pvp

Postby Gromagrim » March 18th, 2013, 6:05 am

Taurnek22 wrote:[In my opinion ... It's PVP. Why should you get to see what their moves could be? Do you get to see what that Pally is going to do to you in a BG?

......

You do know what the definition of strategy is, right?
I know what moveset that paladin has chosen: I can see if he's retri or holy or prot.

From what you've posted, you obviously play proactively: You have one plan and stick to it no matter the opposition. Some pvpers play reactively, they predict what the opposing team will do and counter it.

Both of these are viable strategies, in fact I might say reactive play requires a more tactical approach.

Not being able to see the enemy moveset is just a nerf to those players who like to ponder whats coming and play pet pvp in a chess-like way, it doesn't stop them, because they can still play with warcraft pets running in the background and see what possible moveset each pet has before they decide their moves anyway and predict what the opponent has chosen. Before though, it was a nice quick reference tool - You didn't know when the attack was coming, but you could go in forewarned.

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Aerozia
 
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Re: Removed scanning of enemy pet abilities in pvp

Postby Aerozia » March 18th, 2013, 11:18 pm

my addon still works... works just fine, theres a little lock on the picture of moves, but i still can see what it is, and everything

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Deepfriedegg
 
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Re: Removed scanning of enemy pet abilities in pvp

Postby Deepfriedegg » March 19th, 2013, 8:25 am

Aerozia wrote:my addon still works... works just fine, theres a little lock on the picture of moves, but i still can see what it is, and everything

What addon it is? You claim that you still can see even what ability has opponent chosen for in particular slot?

OP:
"Blizzard prevents addons from scanning pet abilities in PVP duels as of patch 5.2."

That is not accurate. You cannot even see the abilities on default UI like it was possible pre-5.2, it is not addon-specific thing.

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Edgecrusher
 
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Re: Removed scanning of enemy pet abilities in pvp

Postby Edgecrusher » March 20th, 2013, 2:16 am

Deepfriedegg wrote:
Taurnek22 wrote:It actually doesn't add any RNG, since you are playing another player,
Once you're locked into a PVP pet battle you can't change anything anyway, so, what are you whining about?
.....
You do know what the definition of strategy is, right?


- according to you strategy equals guessing? According to me it is making educated decisions. In 5.2 even if I look up possible abilities of my enemy, I still dont know which of those did my enemy choose.
- not knowing enemy move doesnt make PvP harder, it makes it more dependent of random choices rather than strategic ones
- once you are locked into PvP battle, you are still able to switch pets. Knowing enemy moveset adds strategic choices of when to switch what pet in order to minimize incoming damage or maximize outgoing damage

According to you playin chess without knowing what the enemy team´s pieces moves are (until he uses the piece) makes the game more strategic. In OP´s an my opinion it adds randomness.


Agreed 100%... pet battles where epic fun before 5.2 dropped, now they are ok and sometimes frustrating:/

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Gilneas
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Re: Removed scanning of enemy pet abilities in pvp

Postby Gilneas » March 21st, 2013, 4:54 pm

It seems if you had to use a mod to see information Blizzard intentionally conceled they were going to act on it to prevent it eventually. Doesn't seem surprising.

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Deepfriedegg
 
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Re: Removed scanning of enemy pet abilities in pvp

Postby Deepfriedegg » March 22nd, 2013, 4:45 am

Gilneas wrote:It seems if you had to use a mod to see information Blizzard intentionally conceled they were going to act on it to prevent it eventually. Doesn't seem surprising.


You didnt have to use any kind of mob to see the opponent´s abilities. All you needed to do was just mouseover them and tooltip with abilities popped up. All what the mob did was displaying those abilities in a tabular way without the necessity to mouseover the pet´s portrait + showing which pet is faster than what by comparing their speed, again an information that is visible on default UI. Since 5.2 you cannot see the abilites when mouseover the pet portraits anymore.

Also your note that "if you needed a mod to see something, Blizzard would eventually prevent it" is moot. Many things are not visible in default UI but can be publicly accessed by API.

Stabya
 
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Re: Removed scanning of enemy pet abilities in pvp

Postby Stabya » March 22nd, 2013, 8:26 am

In my opinion ... It's PVP. Why should you get to see what their moves could be? Do you get to see what that Pally is going to do to you in a BG?


We know what the Pally (DK,Mage, any class) is going to do

But...

I also run a team that can nuke from effects, so if the other guy doesnt know whats coming, It helps me too

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Gilneas
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Re: Removed scanning of enemy pet abilities in pvp

Postby Gilneas » March 22nd, 2013, 9:45 pm

You didnt have to use any kind of mob to see the opponent´s abilities. All you needed to do was just mouseover them and tooltip with abilities popped up. All what the mob did was displaying those abilities in a tabular way without the necessity to mouseover the pet´s portrait + showing which pet is faster than what by comparing their speed, again an information that is visible on default UI. Since 5.2 you cannot see the abilites when mouseover the pet portraits anymore.


If you were using the default UI, when you tried to mouseover an enemy pet's portrait in PvP, it did not show you the abilities like it does in the wild or on tamers. The spot where it showed the 3 abilities was just blank.

Also your note that "if you needed a mod to see something, Blizzard would eventually prevent it" is moot. Many things are not visible in default UI but can be publicly accessed by API.


Sure, there is information you can get there that's perfectly ok, but that's not the same as things that are delibrately concealed. If you were supposed to have access to what abilities your opponent was using in PvP, they would not have hid it (similar to non-PvP pet battles).


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