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Fluxfire Feline change in 5.2 :(

Discuss pet battles, strategy and theorycrafting.
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Talmar
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Fluxfire Feline change in 5.2 :(

Postby Talmar » December 20th, 2012, 10:02 am

Twitter Question...

Maybe you guys have not noticed how op Fluxfire Feline is. Wind-Up with Supercharge damage 1800+


Cory's answer...

Yup, changes on this combo are coming in 5.2.0.


https://twitter.com/mumper/status/281114050237169666

Not happy Bob...not happy. :(

How is this different from Cleansing Rain/Pump/Pump combo? I see this combo doing very similar damage.

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Re: Fluxfire Feline change in 5.2 :(

Postby Suspiro » December 20th, 2012, 10:07 am

Talmar wrote:Twitter Question...

Maybe you guys have not noticed how op Fluxfire Feline is. Wind-Up with Supercharge damage 1800+


Cory's answer...

Yup, changes on this combo are coming in 5.2.0.


https://twitter.com/mumper/status/281114050237169666

Not happy Bob...not happy. :(

How is this different from Cleansing Rain/Pump/Pump combo? I see this combo doing very similar damage.


Too much kneejerk :(

I hate the term L2P, and I don't even use Fluxfire in PVP, but countering them isn't all that difficult especially if you backfield a Magical pet.

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Re: Fluxfire Feline change in 5.2 :(

Postby Ceathra » December 20th, 2012, 10:27 am

I'll agree with the L2P aspect of countering the move, however, if everyone using it to blow people who are more casual up, then it needs and adjustment (Rain/Pump/Pump too,) but hopefully won't get the full nerf hammer.

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Re: Fluxfire Feline change in 5.2 :(

Postby Kagalii » December 20th, 2012, 10:41 am

Always some jerk who ruins everyone else's fun. :(

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Re: Fluxfire Feline change in 5.2 :(

Postby Ceathra » December 20th, 2012, 10:44 am

I'm not sure that the people on the receiving end of the attack find it fun, in fact I assume they're pretty bummed out. If it's basically a WIN button, what's the fun in that?

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Talmar
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Re: Fluxfire Feline change in 5.2 :(

Postby Talmar » December 20th, 2012, 10:51 am

I've been totally hammered by teams in pvp, sometimes by one pet. I approach it as a challenge, what can I do to beat/counter this pet. Or level my own one to test it out and find it's weakness. Leveling is pretty easy now.

Just my opinion.

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Re: Fluxfire Feline change in 5.2 :(

Postby Ceathra » December 20th, 2012, 10:58 am

Talmar wrote:I've been totally hammered by teams in pvp, sometimes by one pet. I approach it as a challenge, what can I do to beat/counter this pet. Or level my own one to test it out and find it's weakness. Leveling is pretty easy now.

Just my opinion.


I totally agree, but there are a lot of kids out there that just love the idea of pet battles without the theory crafting and finesse. I guess being wtf pwned by a Fluxfire builds character for them, but it's also just a blunt instrument that some people use to just beat on anything.

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Re: Fluxfire Feline change in 5.2 :(

Postby Talmar » December 20th, 2012, 11:09 am

Ceathra wrote:
Talmar wrote:I've been totally hammered by teams in pvp, sometimes by one pet. I approach it as a challenge, what can I do to beat/counter this pet. Or level my own one to test it out and find it's weakness. Leveling is pretty easy now.

Just my opinion.


I totally agree, but there are a lot of kids out there that just love the idea of pet battles without the theory crafting and finesse. I guess being wtf pwned by a Fluxfire builds character for them, but it's also just a blunt instrument that some people use to just beat on anything.


I can see how that would disheartening to an 8 or 9 year old. It's happened to my 9yr old but I'm right there beside her to make sure we both laugh about it. Not always the case for others though.

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Re: Fluxfire Feline change in 5.2 :(

Postby Erian » December 20th, 2012, 11:10 am

Fluxfire can be countered - however: Right now there are not many pets that can do that and even those often get nearly killed. Even Elementals, that should beat the s*** out of a mechanical pet using a mechanical attack.

However I believe it might be enough to bugfix Wind Up: Right now it ignores self-rezzing (mecha/undead) and when killing one of those it even keeps the first part. You can Supercharge -> Wind Up -> Wind Up (kill) and then a) Wind Up (hit hard) or b) Pounce -> Supercharge -> Wind Up (kill). Mechanical/Undead Pets should be somewhat counterpets to a pet that utilizes a single extremly strong hit.

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Re: Fluxfire Feline change in 5.2 :(

Postby Pacer » December 20th, 2012, 11:12 am

The only problem I have with wind up + supercharge is that if they miss the attack they can just use wind up again and because of that you cannot counter it with reflection.

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Re: Fluxfire Feline change in 5.2 :(

Postby Zaelo » December 20th, 2012, 12:09 pm

I think what they want to nerf is more the Fluxfire Feline himself than the supercharge+wind-up combo.

The cleansing rain+pump combo does deal pretty good damage too, that's true, but it's not an absolutely sure kill in 3 rounds like the supercharge+wind-up combo is.

Also, the Fluxfire Feline is more OP than any pet with cleansing rain+pump because he has 2 additionnal strengths: his very high speed (with the right Breed, 325 speed is a lot of speed), and he's mechanical, meaning you get an extra round to do your super hit that you wouldn't get on other pets.

I'm sadened by the idea of seeing this little guy nerfed, because I love mine to bits, but who can say they didn't see this nerf coming really?

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Re: Fluxfire Feline change in 5.2 :(

Postby Poofah » December 20th, 2012, 2:01 pm

Talmar wrote:How is this different from Cleansing Rain/Pump/Pump combo? I see this combo doing very similar damage.


Breed 5 Fluxfire Feline's wind-up/supercharge is 1.1*2.5*2.25*(20+293) = 1937 damage. The strongest pet with Pump+Cleansing Rain is Sea Pony: his Cleansing Rain/Pump hits for 1.1*1.25*2.25*(20+276) = 916 damage.

FFF's combo doesn't need to be taken away completely, it just needs the damage to be reduced. 1800+ damage for 3 turns is too much.

Erian wrote:Fluxfire can be countered - however: Right now there are not many pets that can do that and even those often get nearly killed. Even Elementals, that should beat the s*** out of a mechanical pet using a mechanical attack.


Yes, this is the problem. The things that are supposed to counter it don't do a good enough job, simply because it can do so much damage even when facing an elemental.

Suspiro wrote:I hate the term L2P, and I don't even use Fluxfire in PVP, but countering them isn't all that difficult especially if you backfield a Magical pet.


Magic deals reduced damage to Mechanical. So a) I don't believe you and b) if a magic pet really is the counter to a mechanical in the current metagame, then something has gone wrong with the game design.

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Re: Fluxfire Feline change in 5.2 :(

Postby Suspiro » December 20th, 2012, 2:16 pm

Poofah wrote:
Suspiro wrote:I hate the term L2P, and I don't even use Fluxfire in PVP, but countering them isn't all that difficult especially if you backfield a Magical pet.


Magic deals reduced damage to Mechanical. So a) I don't believe you and b) if a magic pet really is the counter to a mechanical in the current metagame, then something has gone wrong with the game design.


You use a Magical pet so that it can't be one shot, but that Magical pet need not use strictly Magic abilities to kill FF. Namely, I'd use a Jade Oozeling with the two dots (Yes, one of them is Magical. The other is Critter.) and spam Absorb. Believe me or not, I've countered a S/S and a P/S FF in PVP that way in two separate battles. Admittedly, they did not counter my Oozeling properly either.

EDIT: Because saying you don't believe me isn't being combative.
Last edited by Suspiro on December 20th, 2012, 2:35 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Fluxfire Feline change in 5.2 :(

Postby Zaelo » December 20th, 2012, 2:18 pm

Poofah wrote:Magic deals reduced damage to Mechanical. So a) I don't believe you and b) if a magic pet really is the counter to a mechanical in the current metagame, then something has gone wrong with the game design.


I don't see how it's gone wrong. Pet countering is not all black and white. For example, my favorite pet to take on the pandaren spirits is an elemental; pandaren water spirit.

Magic pets do have a HUGE advantage over any other pets when facing FFF, because they can't get one shotted.
I'm guessing the fastest way for FFF to kill a magic pet would be to skip supercharge, go Wind-up for 4 rounds and then finish with his slot 1 attack (claw or something?).. so minimum 5 rounds to take a magic pet down with FFF.

Yes, magic attacks do less damage to mechanical, but not all magic pets have just magic attacks. Now THAT would be game design gone wrong if it was the case. Just find a magic pet with attacks other than magic and it should be pretty decent against the FFF. I'm thinking maybe an oozeling/slimeling? Or if you go with a magic pet that has dodge or phase shift or abilities like that and time your stuff carefully, you can probably last longer than 5 rounds against FFF.

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Re: Fluxfire Feline change in 5.2 :(

Postby Lowbrowdeluxe » December 20th, 2012, 2:40 pm

Enchanted Broom vs Fluxfire. It should take 4-5 rounds for the fluxfire to kill it, and in 4 the Broom can probably get a Windup kill and bypass Failsafe Mechanism.

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Re: Fluxfire Feline change in 5.2 :(

Postby Poofah » December 20th, 2012, 2:45 pm

Suspiro wrote:No need to be combative. You use a Magical pet so that it can't be one shot, but that Magical pet need not use strictly Magic abilities to kill FF. Namely, I'd use a Jade Oozeling with the two dots (Yes, one of them is Magical. The other is Critter.) and spam Absorb. Believe me or not, I've countered a S/S and a P/S FF in PVP that way in two separate battles.


Zaelo wrote:Just find a magic pet with attacks other than magic and it should be pretty decent against the FFF. I'm thinking maybe an oozeling/slimeling?



I think oozeling is a pretty good choice too, but this is a lot more specific than just a magic pet. What I didn't believe/didn't agree with is the idea that the magic innate ability is a sufficient counter. The FFF can just pounce a magic pet for 375 til it dies, while the magic pet deals reduced damage back, *except* in these more limited cases where a magic pet is dealing non-magic damage.

I absolutely agree that countering is not black and white. And I don't believe FFF is uncounterable either. You can use one of the Lanterns (magic with an elemental attack), you can use 3x Fel Flame. It's absolutely possible. But it's too difficult. When only a small handful of very specific pets are good enough to counter a single pet (that itself beats 90% of pets), then that's when I think game design has gone wrong.

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Re: Fluxfire Feline change in 5.2 :(

Postby L1nkjd » December 20th, 2012, 2:50 pm

I'm surprised no one has mentioned Lil' Deathwing Elementium Bolt>Tail Sweep> Roll. There is many combos that will be unbalanced, they cant fix them all.

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Re: Fluxfire Feline change in 5.2 :(

Postby Suspiro » December 20th, 2012, 2:55 pm

Poofah wrote:
Suspiro wrote:No need to be combative. You use a Magical pet so that it can't be one shot, but that Magical pet need not use strictly Magic abilities to kill FF. Namely, I'd use a Jade Oozeling with the two dots (Yes, one of them is Magical. The other is Critter.) and spam Absorb. Believe me or not, I've countered a S/S and a P/S FF in PVP that way in two separate battles.


Zaelo wrote:Just find a magic pet with attacks other than magic and it should be pretty decent against the FFF. I'm thinking maybe an oozeling/slimeling?



I think oozeling is a pretty good choice too, but this is a lot more specific than just a magic pet. What I didn't believe/didn't agree with is the idea that the magic innate ability is a sufficient counter. The FFF can just pounce a magic pet for 375 til it dies, while the magic pet deals reduced damage back, *except* in these more limited cases where a magic pet is dealing non-magic damage.

I absolutely agree that countering is not black and white. And I don't believe FFF is uncounterable either. You can use one of the Lanterns (magic with an elemental attack), you can use 3x Fel Flame. It's absolutely possible. But it's too difficult. When only a small handful of very specific pets are good enough to counter a single pet (that itself beats 90% of pets), then that's when I think game design has gone wrong.


Looking at it that way, I can see your point and can agree that FF needs to be adjusted.

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Re: Fluxfire Feline change in 5.2 :(

Postby Zaelo » December 20th, 2012, 3:26 pm

Poofah wrote:When only a small handful of very specific pets are good enough to counter a single pet (that itself beats 90% of pets), then that's when I think game design has gone wrong.


Ooh I'm certainly not going to argue against that hehe. The FFF is for sure quite OP at the moment.
Was quite surprised that this pet was created as is when I first saw him. How could game designers not see that one coming?
:mrgreen:

I'd add Magical Crawdad on that list too. I believe only a handful of pets can actually take him down if he's using his Shell Shield and Wish to their full potential. I'm not familiar with Lil'Deathwing much, but L1nkjd could have pointed out another. I hope he's right when he says they can't fix them all! hehehehe

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Re: Fluxfire Feline change in 5.2 :(

Postby Erian » December 20th, 2012, 3:49 pm

If found the Crawdad to be countered a lot easier than the Fluxfire Feline - but this might be because I usually have one or more high damage pets in my lineup - e.g. a FFF. ;) What's really strong about the Crawdad (from my point of view) is that it can save another pet about to die - e.g. the FFF again. ^^ But thats a synergie you can deal with. The FFF is just so incredibly strong on his own.

But I still think a bugfix for Wind Up could be the solution, because in that case a lot of undead and also some mechanical pets would be nice counters. ^^

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