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Pet Battle Dungeons : Discussion and idea sharing

Discuss pet battles, strategy and theorycrafting.
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Hobbitpolitics
 
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Pet Battle Dungeons : Discussion and idea sharing

Postby Hobbitpolitics » November 6th, 2016, 12:11 pm

Is it a thing of the time that never was like the epic quality pets or could it become a reality? Since it was hinted at Blizzcon it seems likely, this is definetly something that would be AMAZING for us pet nerds. What are your opinions and ideas?

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Re: Pet Battle Dungeons : Discussion and idea sharing

Postby Quintessence » November 6th, 2016, 4:49 pm

One thing we have to remember is that just because it's announced or previewed at BlizzCon, that doesn't guarantee it will go live in the future.

Pet Breeding, epic battle pets, and now Pet Battle Dungeons -- they're fun and interesting ideas, but developers have their reasons for scrapping an idea or holding back on it until they get it just right.

I'm definitely eager to learn more about Pet Battle Dungeons though! Even if it ultimately doesn't go live, I'd love to hear their ideas on what a feature like that would be.
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Re: Pet Battle Dungeons : Discussion and idea sharing

Postby NeverFinal » November 6th, 2016, 6:11 pm

I cant imagine them ever adding epic pet quality with over 850 pets in the game already. It would unbalance all the current fights and its just unneeded. Not to mention it would take ages to convert all pets in the game. I can maybe see exclusive pets coming out that are epic or legendary but you can only have one on your team. Maybe for legendary it be the only pet on your team. As far as upgrading them I dont think thats a good idea.

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Re: Pet Battle Dungeons : Discussion and idea sharing

Postby FuxieDK » November 7th, 2016, 4:09 am

I guess, that if PBD ever makes it to the game, it will be very very similar to Celestial Tour..

And if that's the case, it will probably be possible to cheat the same way it was in CT...

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Re: Pet Battle Dungeons : Discussion and idea sharing

Postby Paladance » November 7th, 2016, 4:34 am

NeverFinal wrote:I cant imagine them ever adding epic pet quality with over 850 pets in the game already. It would unbalance all the current fights and its just unneeded. Not to mention it would take ages to convert all pets in the game. I can maybe see exclusive pets coming out that are epic or legendary but you can only have one on your team. Maybe for legendary it be the only pet on your team. As far as upgrading them I dont think thats a good idea.


You perhaps want to know that this discussion has been performed several months ago, with a conclusion like this. It's over, probably forever!

---

About the so-called dungeons… sounds like a wildcard of some sort to me.
In the least interesting, yet the most probable case -- something more like a scenario, yet another Celestial Tournament.

Other options? Maybe this time only two of them, otherwise you'd be overwhelmed. You'll be anyway!
I will describe them like they were a solo content, but they can be a multiplayer one aswell, I just don't want to make even more mess here. :lol:

A. Maybe something like simul chess:
  1. Recall the CT trio, like Kiryn, Mari and Blingtron.
  2. You create three pet battle teams. Whether you need to use 9 pets or you are allowed to temporarily duplicate your pet, it's up to the system.
  3. Your team 1 has a turn against Kiryn.
  4. Then, you move to team 2 that has a turn against Mari.
  5. After that, you move to team 3 having a turn against Blingtron.
  6. Repeat steps 3, 4, 5 as many times as it's neccesary.
  7. You need to win at least twice! Unless there's a very nice achievement, of course. :)
Variants:
  • There could be 5v5 and you'd need to win at least thrice.
  • You can also fight against one team all the time, just replicated, what makes it more similar to the original chess. Differentiating the opponent's teams was just easier to explain. :P
B. Something based on the simplified old Disciples engine. Not sure if copyrighted or not, surely iconic and a bit controversial to copy:
  1. It uses single teams, but all of pets perform their abilities during each turn.
  2. The speed of pets decides globally on when they perform an ability, no matter the team they are in, though it still means that moves such as Dazzling Dance are far more valuable than during a regular encounter. Originally, there was some RNG aswell, but let's not talk about this.
  3. Mainline / backline position decides on whether the pets can perform and be targeted by melee attacks from the beginning. That's the most problematic stuff, because that'd require giving a new flag to the abilities, aswell as designing pets with a certain role in mind.

I'm also not sure about the whole multiplayer thing, to be honest. If it involves PUGs, even the kindest group can fall into despair when their roster just doesn't happen to be synergetic. :v Maybe I just need a more specific description on that? :)
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Re: Pet Battle Dungeons : Discussion and idea sharing

Postby Flohsakk » November 7th, 2016, 5:40 am

First of all... Ion said three words "Pet Battle Dungeon" (no "s") so I think we should leave it as ONE thing that maybe happens.

I expect a Solo Player thing combining most of the things pet battlers have seen in the past. So here are my thoughts:

  • No scenario like the Celestial Tournament where you have to start over if you failed at some point but a real instanced dungeon with an ID you can come back to... weekly base.
  • No restrictions for pet healing/rezzes inside the dungeon
  • Something more like a raid dungeon with different wings (maybe pet family related) or at least optionial stuff or something gated behind a first part
  • Small rewards for doing stuff in the dungeon itself but a new currency for completing it (or parts) to keep the players interested over a long time (like the coins to buy celestial tournament pets)
  • "Trash" with one rare pet set and 2 random allies or maybe usual wild fights you can not avoid
  • Named boss-mobs with boss passive and random allies plus mini-bosses (like Beasts of Fable in MoP) changing every week or maybe having different buffs like Fel Corruption in Tanaan to make fights harder for the diversity
  • NPC tamers as the real bosses, changing every week
  • Achivements to do the dungeon with restrictions (healing, rezzes, pet familys etc.)
  • Time run?

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Re: Pet Battle Dungeons : Discussion and idea sharing

Postby Gráinne » November 7th, 2016, 6:31 am

My thoughts on what to expect are closest to Flohsakk's here.

Also, I do expect something. Watcher was careful throughout the Q&A to qualify things that might happen. He didn't qualify this. That doesn't make it a sure thing, but I think they are definitely planning and working on it. I won't beat them up about it if it doesn't happen, but I think it will.

Maybe enter with 5 pets as your team? Pet roles? I'm less sure about the res. Maybe run out for the heal, but can re-enter with whatever progress already cleared?

Surely trash, and tamers for bosses.

I do hope they don't extend the horrors of timed runs to pet battles. I don't see a point.

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Re: Pet Battle Dungeons : Discussion and idea sharing

Postby Merana » November 7th, 2016, 11:53 am

Maybe something like picking one pet to play in the dungeon, like a vehicle or something, has to be a pet you have, maybe limit which can be picked. And then you (and two of your pals) just run around as battle pets and maim other enemy battle pets or something :lol:. Maybe that'd be too weird though.

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Re: Pet Battle Dungeons : Discussion and idea sharing

Postby Paladance » November 8th, 2016, 2:45 am

Merana wrote:Maybe something like picking one pet to play in the dungeon, like a vehicle or something, has to be a pet you have, maybe limit which can be picked. And then you (and two of your pals) just run around as battle pets and maim other enemy battle pets or something :lol:. Maybe that'd be too weird though.


At this stage of development, the weirder ideas, the better! :mrgreen:

But would it be 1v1 or classic 3v3?

"I'VE TOLD YOU, DON'T STAND IN THE FLAMETHROWER, GET OUT TO THE BACKLINE ASAP" :lol:
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Re: Pet Battle Dungeons : Discussion and idea sharing

Postby Kalium » November 8th, 2016, 10:39 am

I'm thinking of Magic: The Gathering play variants. Say 5 people each makes a team of their three pets. They are put into a dungeon together. Each member of the team can take a turn against uber boss NPC. So team buffs and shields will be more helpful than heavy hitters. Coordinated weather effects and synergy over a wide array of pets could provide a substantial boost to your dungeon team.

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Re: Pet Battle Dungeons : Discussion and idea sharing

Postby Saasan » November 8th, 2016, 2:11 pm

(Bringing in some of my thoughts from a previous post, so sorry to anyone who already read this)

I would loooove to see pet battle group play! I have no idea what that would like...would we have "roles", like a queueing as a heals team, a tank team, a dps team?? They could add in a feature (usable in dungeon only) for taunt, I suppose. Or we could each fight a separate pet... so a heals time to fight Pet A, tank for Pet B, etc. My mind is running wild with the possibilities!

I'd also like to see something like a 2v2 or 3v3 battle where you'd have two or three active pets each round. THE COMBOS. I loved in Pokémon XD and where all battles were two active v two active 'mons. It would make for some less useful pets, in a way, because of the strategies where pets swap (unless there are still backline pets, of course).

As to the worries about people turning salty...that's always going to be a problem with any kind of group, but there is definitely a unique challenge with pets as it's not just a matter of "gear" but variety and level and base quality. I assume there would need to be something like in Heroes of the Storm where you can't queue for ranked play until you have X number of heroes leveled--probably a meta achieve requirement for X unique pets and X pets leveled? Salt will still happen, I'm sure. It's the internet! But at least in my experience pet folks tend to have more easy-going personalities and usually are eager to help.

FuxieDK wrote:...it will be very very similar to Celestial Tour..

And if that's the case, it will probably be possible to cheat the same way it was in CT...


I'm confused--how did people cheat for the CT? The only thing I can think of is that sometimes people borrowed rare pets from each other and I wouldn't really call that cheating.

Merana wrote:Maybe something like picking one pet to play in the dungeon, like a vehicle or something, has to be a pet you have, maybe limit which can be picked. And then you (and two of your pals) just run around as battle pets and maim other enemy battle pets or something :lol:. Maybe that'd be too weird though.


I totally LOVE this! :lol: That sounds so cute!

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Re: Pet Battle Dungeons : Discussion and idea sharing

Postby Flohsakk » November 8th, 2016, 11:18 pm

Don't remember something to really cheat during Celestial Tournament, but it was possible to heal pets by starting a fight, activate Wish (maybe other Heals worked too on specific tamers), swap the injured pet, receive the healing, forfeit, repeat :roll:

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Re: Pet Battle Dungeons : Discussion and idea sharing

Postby FuxieDK » November 9th, 2016, 6:10 am

Sassan wrote:
FuxieDK wrote:...it will be very very similar to Celestial Tour..

And if that's the case, it will probably be possible to cheat the same way it was in CT...


I'm confused--how did people cheat for the CT? The only thing I can think of is that sometimes people borrowed rare pets from each other and I wouldn't really call that cheating.

1: Bring multiples of the same pet.. Not so much cheating, but more cheese it. Encounters were designed with no multiples in mind..
2: AoE heal on turn 1, forfeit on turn 2... Since 10% health loss bugged in CT and not a single fight attacked in turn 1, people exploited this bug, to heal between fights, in a tournament where all healing between fights should have been impossible.

Personally, I didn't use any of those methods (including borrowing pets).

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Re: Pet Battle Dungeons : Discussion and idea sharing

Postby Flohsakk » November 9th, 2016, 9:52 am

FuxieDK wrote:Encounters were designed with no multiples in mind..

Which Blizzard official said/wrote that?

FuxieDK wrote:Since 10% health loss bugged in CT


Again? Who from Blizzard mentioned this to be a bug?
For me this looks intended so people won't have to struggle with forfeit penalty (in a "no healing" environment) when they accidently started a fight with the wrong pets and wanted to stop immediately.

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Re: Pet Battle Dungeons : Discussion and idea sharing

Postby Paladance » November 9th, 2016, 10:29 am

The 10% HP penalty has always been applied to wild pets only. Check any tamer in the world, there is no additional health taken.

Also, to be absolutely sure you can't "cheese" CT, you'd have to prohibit any 6.0+ pets. :V

On the pet ”RP" again, I can recall that one day I was wondering about the old Karazhan chess game (technical aspect, not necessarily aesthetics), comparing these NPCs and pets. No specific ideas, tho.
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Re: Pet Battle Dungeons : Discussion and idea sharing

Postby Saasan » November 9th, 2016, 2:21 pm

FuxieDK wrote:
2: AoE heal on turn 1, forfeit on turn 2... Since 10% health loss bugged in CT and not a single fight attacked in turn 1, people exploited this bug, to heal between fights, in a tournament where all healing between fights should have been impossible.



Okay, I honestly feel a bit stupid for having never thought of that.

Anyway! Back on topic! I think one thing we can rule out for pet dungeons is cageables, unless there are limitless spawns at the end of the dungeon. That might be a fun reward, though. Catching pets at the end instead of drops. Oof. Rolling on a drop at the end would be depressing.

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Re: Pet Battle Dungeons : Discussion and idea sharing

Postby Flohsakk » November 12th, 2016, 12:49 pm

If you are on Twitter, feel free to throw your ideas at Jeremy Feasel in his tweet ;-)

https://twitter.com/Muffinus/status/797288207914147840

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Re: Pet Battle Dungeons : Discussion and idea sharing

Postby Flohsakk » November 12th, 2016, 1:03 pm

And reading the ideas there something came to mind...

  • What if we have to beat let's say Team 1 before we can continue to fight Team 2
  • Team 1 has a pet with a unique ability that can counter something that makes Team 2 a quite hard fight.
  • You have the option to capture (outheal or whatever) this specific pet or kill it (killing it will make the fight against Team 1 easier)
  • The captured/rewarded pet from Team 1 has predefined stats (max-level/rarity), goes into your journal but is only usable in the Pet Battle Dungeon (maybe removed when ID resets)

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Re: Pet Battle Dungeons : Discussion and idea sharing

Postby Gráinne » November 13th, 2016, 10:10 am

Wow, that Twitter thread is weird to read. People who didn't like the CT?

Anyway, I expect the problem will be not so much how to set battles up, since there are plenty of ways to do that, as how to make them continue to be appropriately rewarding through the expansion. I got my 4 pets and 6 extra Celestial Coins I can't usefully spend before I stopped the CT, but there are only so many Celestial Coins you're never going to spend that you will return for.

Pet Charms are useful filler currency, but not something I'm excited to get.

Pets are desirable, but there's a limit to how many you can make. After that, it's over.

Pet toys - does anyone ever use them more than once?

What exclusive rewards would work?

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Re: Pet Battle Dungeons : Discussion and idea sharing

Postby FuxieDK » November 14th, 2016, 4:06 pm

There is no limits to pets...

Just look at Moths; we have around 350 different moths...

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