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Breeds for Legion Pets

Discuss pet battles, strategy and theorycrafting.
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Gráinne
 
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Breeds for Legion Pets

Postby Gráinne » September 30th, 2016, 6:58 pm

It's that time.

I've picked up most of the Legion wild pets, and now I'm looking at them and thinking "what breeds do I want to keep?".

Yes, I know that in a lot of cases it doesn't matter much, but I feel compelled to make a deliberate decision on each.

Some of them pick themselves, mostly for speed:

Rose Taipan is a Death Adder Hatchling by another name. S/S.

Coralback Fiddler has a common moveset, but it's the only pet with that moveset @325, so S/S it is.

Dust Bunny is an S/S, of course, but then it's Just Another Rabbit. I doubt I will ever use Smoke Bomb, but maybe a P/S with it would not be crazy?

Blind Rat is an S/S, of course. For the similar Frostfur Rat I also keep a P/P but Lullaby is a clincher for speed for the Blind Rat.

Some are not so clear:

Eternal Strider is Just Another Strider. I already have the Aqua for speed, and the Eternal for a bit more power. Maybe H/B for a health option? Or H/S to preserve the 305 speed?

Slithering Brownscale is identical in moveset and stats to the Coral Adder. The 341 speed is impressive, but when a DAH brings more to the party with its moveset, neither of the regular snakes is going to matter much. The Brownscale does offer an S/B breed, which the Adder doesn't, so maybe I'll go get one of those just to have one with different numbers.

Hog-Nosed Bat is Just Another Bat for moveset
H/P = 1546/305/244
P/P = 1400/341/244
I always like health in a flyer, but I think I favour the Power breed here, and get the 1627/276/257 H/S Echo Batling with the same moveset for high health.

Enough for one post....

Does anyone else share my odd compulsion to choose specific breeds even on pets you will likely not use for battling?

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Re: Breeds for Legion Pets

Postby Uduwudu » September 30th, 2016, 7:58 pm

Hi,

Other than the Eldritch and the Erudite pets, I really have not found anything really strong, maybe that Fawn, fits nicely, and might be useful against Cymre, but in general, SO FAR, I'm actually disappointed with the pets in Legion, which are, for the most part, just carbon copies of a lot of other things we have ... that we do not use.

Most disappointing is my Shammie's pet off the GH (Snowfang) and the turkey thing had exactly the same spec's as any other pet at level 1 for his class and style. It was very disappointing, specially as to how fast and easy his fight was!

So far, and I have not gotten any of the World anything yet on my Shammie, the whole pet thing in Legion is very disappointing, and for some reason I do not expect it to get any better. Otherwise, everyone here would be raving about the new top 20 pet and what not. Not a single pet seems to even be worth the mention to a top 20!

Just my thoughts at this moment, and they could change as time go by depending on what's out there and comes out.

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Re: Breeds for Legion Pets

Postby Peanutty » September 30th, 2016, 10:01 pm

Love the analysis, I'm always waffling on breeds, even with pets that I admit I'll probably never use.

S/S Rose Taipan seemed an obvious choice. I went with a P/S Dust Bunny. Been trying to land a S/S Blind Rat but I've only managed a P/S so far.

I do admit one of my quirks is having breed combos that I don't have, when possible, even if they're far from optimal (i.e. a... S/B turtle)? So for Eternal Strider, I'm doing S/B simply because I don't have another S/B strider (same with a S/B Slithering Brownscale, I think I only have one other snake that's S/B).

Uduwudu wrote:So far, and I have not gotten any of the World anything yet on my Shammie, the whole pet thing in Legion is very disappointing, and for some reason I do not expect it to get any better. Otherwise, everyone here would be raving about the new top 20 pet and what not. Not a single pet seems to even be worth the mention to a top 20!


Not sure what to tell you, it's your right to voice your complaints but I can't help but notice your unhappy posts. But we all pet battle for different reasons. I'm fine with 100 moths and 50 snakes and whatnot. I just like collecting, regardless if a pet is good for battle or not or if it's unique nor not. Every time I see a new pet I get excited, even if it's so awful that I can barely stand to level it (ahem, Seaborne Spore). The breed thing just gives me a way to tweak my collection just so, even if I don't plan on using those pets.

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Re: Breeds for Legion Pets

Postby Paladance » October 1st, 2016, 2:07 am

I also like to collect specific breeds or differentiate breeds of the virtual duplicates, though I don't care enough to have entire roster predetermined. :P I want Rufa's website back. :<
(Petsear.ch bugs and a need to export is too much to me, sorry. Though showing base stats is nice. :)).

It's a Spring Strider ladies and gentlemen. :)

So let's go…

WarcraftPets actually allows to see "Identical Abilities". No convenient chart yet, and apparently no pets with same-but-rotated abilities, but it's better than nothing. :)

Spring Strider: B/B 1481/260/292, S/B 1465/257/305, H/B 1546/257/289, H/S 1546/244/305
Eternal Strider: S/B 1465/257/305, P/S 1400/273/305
Mirror Strider: B/B 1400/260/309, H/B 1465/257/305, H/S 1465/244/322
Dancing Water Skimmer: B/B 1481/260/292, S/B 1465/257/305, H/B 1546/257/289, H/S 1546/244/305 (this is identical).
Aqua is obviously different in that matter, so I skip it. :P
Results: The toughest -- H/X DWS, the most powerful -- P/S Eternal Strider, the fastest (besides AS) -- H/S Mirror Strider.

Slithering Brownscale actually multiplies maaaany snakes, though particular basic stats may be indeed different. Ash Viper or Rattlesnake can provide an identical P/S, for example.

I agree on not duplicating S/S rabbits anymore, especially since Smoke Bomb always goes first.
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Re: Breeds for Legion Pets

Postby Uduwudu » October 1st, 2016, 10:49 am

Peanutty wrote:... but notice your unhappy posts. But we all pet battle for different reasons. I'm fine with 100 moths and 50 snakes and whatnot. I just like collecting, regardless if a pet is good for battle or not or if it's unique nor not. Every time I see a new pet I get excited, even if it's so awful that I can barely stand to level it (ahem, Seaborne Spore). The breed thing just gives me a way to tweak my collection just so, even if I don't plan on using those pets.


I'm not sure what a complaint is, by definition, when one is mentioning something that IS a reality in the game. There is no happy or unhappy per se, although I would imagine that both you and I would love to have a couple more pets that were stronger, and did a few different things.

The lack of consistency on Blizzard's part is the only thing that disappoints me ... they say that the harder the better the benefits, and then they nerf the harder Pet Battles, and take away the benefits, specially in Draenor against the named pets, and I can NOT, as yet speak for the Legion pets, other than I LIKE the idea of updating 15 level Ash Vipers with Ash Vipers found in Suramar, which, when RARE, become 23 ... and that means my list of Uncommons will dwindle even faster while I level my pets in there ... that's actually cool, and this morning I got my first Blue Stone in Legion while leveling some pets. YESSSSS!

IF, there is another disappointment is that the fights in the Timelss Isle against the Masters, are also bad. The reward is a pet, of which, only one is listed in the "top 20" even in this website (the Tiger).

But all in all, the Pet Battles is the best part of the game for me, and I just wish to see some fair results and accomplishments for all of us, and a chance to improve as time goes by. But for that to happen, some newer and stronger pets, or totally different abilities would be required, however, I think what the game is trying to prevent, is high levels taking on low levels for fun, as one used to see in PvP servers, when the level 60's would go to Level 1-5 areas and wipe everyone every 5 minutes. We do that now on various Dungeons for achievements, and I think that in the future this will not be able to happen, from anything 100 and up. That would suggest that the Pet Battles will also have some limits, is my guess.

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Re: Breeds for Legion Pets

Postby Uduwudu » October 1st, 2016, 10:57 am

Paladance wrote:...
I also like to collect specific breeds or differentiate breeds of the virtual duplicates, though I don't care enough to have entire roster predetermined. ...


Same. Check out my lists, and you will find some "duplicates" but they are a different breed, and I like having the choice in either using a fast one, or a more damage'y one.

It's actually fun, but watch the difference when you use both Unborn Val'kyr's in the Tarr fight, and do not use the bomb. The biggest difference is the hit points, but the one with the lesser hit points? ... seems to do more damage! That's a bit weird, as one would figure that the pet with more hit points, would last longer, right?

Given more time, and finishing Rare'ing my pets, after that I want to see about creating a log on various differences on some breeds. And even though some of the H/?'s are not always as powerful as the P/?'s, or the B/?'s, the speed side of the game, seems to be the biggest winner ... S/?'s ... as they often go first, and if they have a bomb? ... fight over!

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Re: Breeds for Legion Pets

Postby Vakeetah » October 1st, 2016, 3:11 pm

Because procrastinating is fun, here's a handful :P

Blind Rat: S/S. it's a given, everything in its skillset favors speed!

Dust Bunny: Possibly P/S. Its "special" feature, Smoke Bomb always goes first, and we have plenty of S/S bunnies around (whereas P/* ones are severely lacking)

Albatross Chick: No idea! It's a gull, but has a very low Speed stat growth. Maybe capitalizing on that, with a P/B? A "fast" Albatross would be like a slow gull, tbh, so not really worth pursuing.

Black-Footed Fox Kit: B/B imo. Yes, it's nuts to even consider a Balanced breed, but given its strange stat spread it ends up with 292 speed which is a "new" value. Its cousin, Mist Fox Kit, has normal fox stats and breeds so doesn't provide anything interesting (bar looks!)

Golden Eaglet, Fledgling Oliveback, Fledgling Kingfeather: Their signature move is Preen, other than that they are regular birds of prey (e,g Dragonbone Hatchling)
Fastest: S/S Fledgling Oliveback (1369/260/341)
Strongest: P/P Fledgling Kingfeather (1400/341/244) Good luck farming it...
Sturdiest: P/B Skyhorn Nestling (1506/297/257) Not wild, fixed breed, must be upgraded

Long-Eared Owl: Since the other owls with the same skillset are single-breed (P/S and P/P respectively) probably better to go with something else. S/S and */B breeds are the fastest and toughest owls available, with P/P being a sidegrade to Fledgling Warden Owl. So S/S, and probably P/B (the extra health of the B/B nerfs it too much to be worth it)

Rose Taipan: Agreed on the S/S (as it's a free DAH!) but also possibly interesting to grab P/S for when 341 speed would be overkill. P/P gets too slow for my taste.

Slithering Brownscale: A totally meh and expendable snake, with the same skillset and stat spread as all others, and no "exclusive" breeds. Just whatever pops as Rare first.

Gleamhoof Fawn: Regular fawn skillset but nice variety! P/P is definitely worth looking at, S/S also decent (although standard S/S Fawn remains fastest).

Tiny Apparition: No point getting picky, it's the same as Lost of Lordaeron in every sense, which is easy to grab. So whatever you can grab.

Stormstruck Beaver: Whatever you can get your hands on imo. If you really want to go there and try to "farm" it... P/P.

Coastal Sandpiper: I'd say P/S or even P/B. It's a flier and its special features are having Quick Attack and Quicksand, which makes S/S very overkill. It also has Sandstorm (which would benefit from having more Power) but its counter-sinergetic with the rest of the kit anyway, so dunno.

Coralback Fiddler: S/S, clearly, because of uniqueness. The other S/* breeds also offer a reasonable speed for a pet of this type.

Juvenile Scuttleback: Unlike the former, this is a standard crab, just with breeds other than P/P and H/H. With Coralback Fiddler for the "faster" alternative, and regular crabs providing the power and health versions, it's really hard to justify seeking a certain breed, as its P/S and H/S are sort of slow anyway.

Might have a look at others later.
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Re: Breeds for Legion Pets

Postby Peanutty » October 1st, 2016, 3:54 pm

Oh. Spring Strider, yes. :oops: So many striders, so little time. :)

Uduwudu wrote: although I would imagine that both you and I would love to have a couple more pets that were stronger, and did a few different things.


Somewhat disagree. More moves make the game interesting, but they need to be balanced. I'd like to see more balance overall and definitely fewer "really powerful pets" because that just means everyone's stuck using the same tired strategies over and over. I don't want to see another Graves. I don't want another howl bomb combo (very creative on the part of whoever came up with it, but boring once you're relying on it for half the fights in the game). The Family Familiar achievement is helping me break out of that rut by forcing me to use pets I'd never considered before, that aren't superstars with fantastic synergy but also are surprisingly effective when used in certain ways.

Uduwudu wrote:IF, there is another disappointment is that the fights in the Timelss Isle against the Masters, are also bad. The reward is a pet, of which, only one is listed in the "top 20" even in this website (the Tiger).


The top 20 lists mean nothing to me, I've never really used Xu-Fu at all. Not because it's a bad pet but I don't particularly care for the look of it. But I enjoyed the difficulty of the tournament (via the no healing constraint) and getting the unique looking pets that were rewarded - Zao and Chi-Chi were both gorgeous IMO and I was excited to get them. But that's the beauty of this mini game, each person can find their own value in what they like and customize their collection to suit their needs.

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Re: Breeds for Legion Pets

Postby Peanutty » October 1st, 2016, 4:04 pm

Vakeetah wrote:Because procrastinating is fun, here's a handful :P

(snipped for length)

Might have a look at others later.


Love your analysis. I was having a hard time trying to figure out what to do with some of the more standardized pets like the Juvenile Scuttleback which as you noted is just another crab. But I like breed variety, so... geez I have 3 of them right now. Obviously I couldn't decide on a breed!

Interesting with the Black-Footed Fox Kit. I was going to go with S/B on that and B/B on Mist Fox Kit since the speed payoff is higher on the S/B Black-Footed Fox Kit vs S/B of the other, but I didn't realize how different the stats on it were from a "standard" fox.

My Fledgling Kingfeather is P/P. Oddly finding a Fledgling Oliveback has been much harder for me but I might consider farming up a S/S just because, even though I rarely aim for speed in flyers.

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Re: Breeds for Legion Pets

Postby Gráinne » October 3rd, 2016, 2:11 am

Thanks for the inspiration, Vakeetah!

You might be understating the case for the P/P Gleamhoof Fawn. That was one of my "choose themselves" set, but I overlooked it because it wasn't in the Speed list. Those heals and Headbutt scream for power, and I'd suggest that P/P is the ideal breed for that moveset. There may be a case somewhere where changing to Elemental first is critical, but for everything else, P/P is the breed we've been waiting for.

Thanks to all of you for encouraging me to get a P/S Dust Bunny. I'll probably never use it, but it fills a theoretical niche.

I'm still thinking S/B for Black-Footed Fox Kit. Yes, 292 is an odd, though not unheard-of, speed, but no other Fox has 305 either, unless I've missed something?

I went P/P with Golden Eaglet for the Preen. I may never see a P/P Fledgling Kingfeather, so that will have to do.

Yes, Coastal Sandpiper has an awkward moveset. I'm just not seeing Quick Attack ever being used, so I went with P/S to keep the 289 speed.

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Re: Breeds for Legion Pets

Postby Uduwudu » October 3rd, 2016, 4:01 pm

Vakeetah wrote:Because procrastinating is fun, here's a handful :P
...


Outstanding!!!!

Actually helps some in making decisions on the various pet fights ... while also preparing to use a Rare Pet Stone on one, or two, that you have fought 100 times, and still do not have a Rare on it. Ex: On my account, I got the Gleamhoof Fawn in the first week, and got a Rare ... since then, I have not seen another Rare, in over 50 pet fights. (Been trying to help my neighbor get one of these and learn how to use the Fawn's ... he's so tuned to the fire and fire and fire and shoot some more that he does not understand the defensive side one iota ... he's just hitting keys, but with his Parkinson medications ... it's just nice to see him doing this and be able to level and work the game at all. We will find a RARE for him, yet!)

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Re: Breeds for Legion Pets

Postby Uduwudu » October 3rd, 2016, 4:10 pm

Peanutty wrote:Oh. Spring Strider, yes. :oops: So many striders, so little time. :)
...


Hahahaha ... loved it!

Peanutty wrote:...
Somewhat disagree. More moves make the game interesting, but they need to be balanced. I'd like to see more balance overall and definitely fewer "really powerful pets" because that just means everyone's stuck using the same tired strategies over and over. I don't want to see another Graves. I don't want another howl bomb combo (very creative on the part of whoever came up with it, but boring once you're relying on it for half the fights in the game).
...


I agree here. No concerns there. Just maybe a few more uses for Critters and Beasts, since all they do is take damage and not get used as much on bigger fights?

Peanutty wrote:...
The Family Familiar achievement is helping me break out of that rut by forcing me to use pets I'd never considered before, that aren't superstars with fantastic synergy but also are surprisingly effective when used in certain ways.
...


I actually like that idea, and I had already tried that several times before even realizing it ... like on this or that use 3 Aquatic Pets, which is likely to be one of the most useful and successful possibilities.

Now if I can figure out how to get to the Family Familiar and get it done ... time for some googling!

Peanutty wrote:...
The top 20 lists mean nothing to me, I've never really used Xu-Fu at all.
...


About 9 months ago, when I got on to the Pet Battles full throttle, when I first found this site, I marked up the Top 20, for a list of pets I could get, and then a listing of the most used pets in the Celestial Tournament suggestions, knowing that those would likely be the better pets to use.

By the time I got almost completely done with both lists, I realized that ... it didn't matter anymore, and I lost interest and will not go play one other game to get a new pet, and I doubt I will purchase a pet or two from Blizzard. They should be "rewards" for play, not sale!

The list is good, and meant well for me, in helping get the main Pets needed for almost all the dailies and Battle Masters out there. Now, it's a matter of cleaning out the bottom stuff and finish leveling off everything, after they are PCharmed (if needed).

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Re: Breeds for Legion Pets

Postby Peanutty » October 3rd, 2016, 9:09 pm

Uduwudu wrote:I agree here. No concerns there. Just maybe a few more uses for Critters and Beasts, since all they do is take damage and not get used as much on bigger fights?


With critters, fast rabbits have definitely been my superstar and they've worked their way into many fights for me since their specialty is NOT taking damage. The family racial is also quite good.

I haven't started with beasts for Family Familiars but just off the top of my head the Zandalari raptors were something I relied on heavily for the Tanaan Jungle battles.

Uduwudu wrote:
Peanutty wrote:...
The Family Familiar achievement is helping me break out of that rut by forcing me to use pets I'd never considered before, that aren't superstars with fantastic synergy but also are surprisingly effective when used in certain ways.
...


I actually like that idea, and I had already tried that several times before even realizing it ... like on this or that use 3 Aquatic Pets, which is likely to be one of the most useful and successful possibilities.

Now if I can figure out how to get to the Family Familiar and get it done ... time for some googling!


I'd never really considered doing "only 1 family" battles but it is definitely a break from my usual "counter this family with that family" (i.e. see a flyer, pull out Nexus Whelpling).

Aquatic is turning out to be a bigger headache than I thought though! They have great synergy with one another, but that also becomes a weakness in that almost all their attacks are aquatic, they don't have a lot from other family types so it becomes difficult to counter anything outside of elemental family creatures.

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Re: Breeds for Legion Pets

Postby Gráinne » October 3rd, 2016, 11:44 pm

I've done 9 of the 12 Family battles for Aquatic, and I don't remember any of the battles, so I must not have had any problems. Check out Aranesh's site if you need a hand. The work that he and others has put into those strats is outstanding.

I remember pulling out Tiny Blue Carp for something; its line of Magic abilities seemed appropriate.

Mostly I get by on my Basic Aquatics team: Emperor Crab, Fen Crab, Puddle Terror, though I could imagine using Hydraling.

Critters ... yeah. Rabbits, of course, and Snails. It seems like Red Cricket ought to have been a standard-bearer, but isn't. Among the new pets, Zoom seems like a worthwhile Critter. Some beefy Undead can have a bad day when a Stitched Pup dies with a Howl, and enter Zoom to use Slow and Steady. :) Or maybe Murk's RI? Though two times zero is still zero, for speed.

Beasts are OK. I regard Beasts as pretty balanced. They have Cats, and Anklerenders, and Spiders - never underestimate a Spider! - Direhorns, DAH and its new mimi-me, Foxes (though I mourn the loss of Howl). Shame about the Ashmaw Cub's breed, though - it wouldn't have killed the devs to make it a suitable, though not overpowered, battler. Even a 289 speed with Rip in the first slot would have added a nice 2nd tier pet. Grumpy, with Howl->Superbark, is my new Taming buddy, and I'm sure he could find a place on many teams.

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Re: Breeds for Legion Pets

Postby Peanutty » October 4th, 2016, 5:22 pm

Gráinne wrote:I've done 9 of the 12 Family battles for Aquatic, and I don't remember any of the battles, so I must not have had any problems. Check out Aranesh's site if you need a hand. The work that he and others has put into those strats is outstanding.

I remember pulling out Tiny Blue Carp for something; its line of Magic abilities seemed appropriate.


I avoid reading strats unless I'm completely stumped (I enjoy figuring out my own strats) and so far, nothing's been so awful that I couldn't eventually come up with something that worked.

I'll give my Tiny Blue Carp a closer look. I know the carps are all different but I never could remember which one did what.

I usually turn to striders as my first choice in aquatic pet but the baby crocolisks and crabs have also been useful so far.

Gráinne wrote:Beasts are OK. I regard Beasts as pretty balanced. They have Cats, and Anklerenders, and Spiders - never underestimate a Spider!


Spiders are my staple in my leveling/capture teams. They're such livelords with the Brittle Webbing/Leech Life combo. Leech Life also works great as a soft hit when you're trying to whittle something down to catch it, just remember not to Brittle Web it!

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Re: Breeds for Legion Pets

Postby Gráinne » October 4th, 2016, 5:39 pm

I'm avoiding strat spoilers too. I do go to Xu-Fu when I have just done one that took more than two tries, to see if there was an easier option I missed, but most of the Family Familiar battles go down without any special planning or calculation, so I find a guide unnecessary, and there is fun to be had in solving the puzzle if I don't one-shot it. If I was grinding them for levelling every day, it would be worth working on an optimised strat, but for the one-off Family Familiars, a win is a win.

Bredda Flying, Bredda Magic are the only two notably hard ones I've seen.

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Re: Breeds for Legion Pets

Postby Peanutty » October 5th, 2016, 1:00 am

I did Bredda w/ all magic but I don't remember what I used, it might've been Syd the Squid, S/S Nordrassil Wisp (one of my favorite pets overall, I feel very comfortable using it) and Harmonious Porcupette? Don't think I've ever used the porcupette before for anything in particular but I do remember it saving my bacon in some WQ battle that I was struggling with, so that was a nice "find."

Been using Enchanted Broom and Willy as well, Willy's B/B breed makes him less than perfect but his abilities self synchronize very well.

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Re: Breeds for Legion Pets

Postby Vakeetah » October 5th, 2016, 7:48 am

I believe an interesting sub-set of pets are the Suramar Broodlings, due to fairly unique skillset, and same stat spread between all species (making breed availability more relevant than the pet itself)

The "most important" specimen here is the Crystalline, as it comes in 5 different breeds - some of which overlap with the other species. The table below displays breed availability and uniqueness.

(white background if available, grey if unavailable, tick/cross icon for breed recommendation based on uniqueness)
Image
Leyline Broodling and Vicious Broodling are single-breed so nothing you can do with those; and if you wanted you could have 1 Thornclaw Broodling of each breed. So for full breed coverage, the three Crystalline Broodlings should be H/H, P/S, and S/B.

It's not like you'd use all of them, anyway. For general purposes, I'd say H/H, H/P and P/S should have you covered.
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Re: Breeds for Legion Pets

Postby Avarre » October 6th, 2016, 5:54 am

Any other experts care to comment on what are the best breeds for the legion pets? I am trying to get the optimal breeds now since i gotten all of the wild pets.

Is P/P best for Dream Whelpling?

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Re: Breeds for Legion Pets

Postby Vakeetah » October 6th, 2016, 7:43 am

Avarre wrote:Any other experts care to comment on what are the best breeds for the legion pets? I am trying to get the optimal breeds now since i gotten all of the wild pets.

Is P/P best for Dream Whelpling?

I'd say so, yes. P/S isn't really fast (273) and the P/B only has marginally higher HP at a hefty Power cost. So P/P all the way!

In terms of skillset, the preferred P/P setup is about the same as the P/P Emerald Proto-Whelp, resulting in a very similar role (anti-flyer), but at least you can choose Toxic Skin or Healing Flame if that works under certain circumstances.

Sleeping Gas is impossible to use on this pet, as it's absolutely ruined (due to the cooldown) and leads the pet into a lockdown. Also, like most CC moves, it'd favor a fast pet, which the Dream Whelpling isn't even as P/S.
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