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is S/S a must have for moon tears moon moon?

Discuss pet battles, strategy and theorycrafting.
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Ash_knacksum
 
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is S/S a must have for moon tears moon moon?

Postby Ash_knacksum » September 29th, 2016, 10:45 am

I only have a P/S moon moon, and would have liked to have it in the rotation for my moonlight team, but with having a sprite darter it's way faster and can apply moonlight quicker because of this.

I was thinking with the P/S, it might be good for also using howl and bite or moon bite as well. I have not really found much info, other than people saying you need the S/S if you want to use moon tears and P/P for moon bite, nothing at all about the P/S other than it used to say the S/S was a P/S at level 1. mine is level 25 though.

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Re: is S/S a must have for moon tears moon moon?

Postby Vakeetah » September 29th, 2016, 12:32 pm

I don't see any particular reason why you'd want to be S/S for Moon Tears. Moonlight doesn't provide any immediate negative effect that you may want to apply before the enemy attack (unlike nerfing the damage/accuracy of the attacker with Darkness or Sandstorm for example).

A different thing would be wanting to use Moon Dance for the speed boost (which would indeed be most favorable for non S/S) but overall, it's completely safe to run Moon Tears on a P/S or a P/P.
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Re: is S/S a must have for moon tears moon moon?

Postby Ash_knacksum » September 29th, 2016, 1:17 pm

Vakeetah wrote:I don't see any particular reason why you'd want to be S/S for Moon Tears. Moonlight doesn't provide any immediate negative effect that you may want to apply before the enemy attack (unlike nerfing the damage/accuracy of the attacker with Darkness or Sandstorm for example).

A different thing would be wanting to use Moon Dance for the speed boost (which would indeed be most favorable for non S/S) but overall, it's completely safe to run Moon Tears on a P/S or a P/P.


thanks man.. the info I was looking at was years old, mate! It's why I posted here before I traded mine for an S/S... just saved me beating myself up over trading away the P/S.

I have certainly learned to love cross breeds, you certainly don't need to have pure breeds all the time.

also, while you're here.

Do you think sprite darter hatchling - zomstrok and infected squirrel would make a good team? you have fungus and rot on the zomstrok so fungus would be buffed by moonlight and then stampede would be favourable with rot up as well, as well as being able to put up rabies as well.

I am very new and this is total theory craft as I'm still leveling these pets (don't even have the squirrel yet) it seems like it might be good, just missing heals as I tend to roll with evanescence so I can evade and get moonlight up then switch out.

Good thing about the moonlight team is I have a lot of pets that work with it, this current iteration just came to me as I was looking through the decriptions of the moves.... is this a team that has been used before?

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Re: is S/S a must have for moon tears moon moon?

Postby Vakeetah » September 29th, 2016, 2:44 pm

I can tell you, while the idea is good on paper, it's not going to work.

Here's a few problems off the top of my head:
1) Weather dependant: It is true that Creeping Fungus can deal some great damage under Moonlight, but if the opponent changes weather, it becomes a mediocre DoT at best. And if the new weather is Cleanding Rain or Sandstorm, say goodbye to your Fungus altogether.
2) Too many swaps: You need to switch pets out too often to pull this combo off, which results in many wasted turns and leaves you open to a lot of unnecessary damage.
3) Predictable setup: As you described, it can be powerful if you go Moonlight->Creeping Fungus and then Rot->Rabid->Stampede. And it's true, but that's the ONLY thing your team does, and it has to pretty much do it in that order. A stun, dodge, swap, miss, etc. at any time, and it's over.
4) Stampede...: Since it lasts 3 rounds, and is only really effective for the target of your Rot and DoTs... any clever enemy will just swap out, and will have 2 rounds to think and press forward (since your pet will keep stampeding).
5) To Rot or not to Rot?: Rot is a very special move in that it produces a type change, but that works both ways. For example, against Humanoids, you'll be making them subject to Critter damage, but at the same time, cancel their innate weakness to Creeping Fungus (which is the bulk of your damage).
6) Zomstrok unable to fight for himself: Given his abilities have a cooldown, it will be forced to spam Creeping Fungus if the other pets die - so on his own, it's pretty much useless. If you really really want to go for Creeping Fungus, consider another option that has a decent fighting chance outside of a single gimmick.

Yes, I know the idea is that you have Zomstrok as the cornerstone of the strategy, supporting both Moonlight/Fungus and Rot/Stampede combos - but don't you think you might be wanting to do too much? Right now the Zomstrok is THE KEY to the strategy and at the same time, very useless by himself; it's the link to both combos, but it's a weak link for the team as a whole. You'd probably be more succesful if you focused on one of the two strategies, and supported it accordingly.

It is definitely a complex and possibly combo, but honestly, try it, and see for yourself. Even for PvE tamers, the sheer amount of swapping will just get you killed before you can finish the enemy team; where you could have run simpler strategies with better results.
Last edited by Vakeetah on September 29th, 2016, 2:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: is S/S a must have for moon tears moon moon?

Postby Ash_knacksum » September 29th, 2016, 2:57 pm

Vakeetah wrote:I can tell you, while the idea is good on paper, it's not going to work.

Here's a few problems off the top of my head:
1) Weather dependant: It is true that Creeping Fungus can deal some great damage under Moonlight, but if the opponent changes weather, it becomes a mediocre DoT at best.
2) Too many swaps: You need to switch pets out too often to pull this combo off, which leaves you open to a lot of unnecessary damage.
3) Predictable setup: As you described, it can be powerful if you go Moonlight->Creeping Fungus and then Rot->Rabid->Stampede. And it's true, but that's the ONLY thing your team does, and it has to pretty much do it in that order. A stun, dodge, swap, miss, etc. at any time, and it's over.
4) Stampede...: Since it lasts 3 rounds, and is only really effective for the target of your Rot and DoTs... any clever enemy will just swap out, and will have 2 rounds to think and press forward (since your pet will keep stampeding).
5) Zomstrok unable to fight for himself: Given his abilities have a cooldown, it will be forced to spam Creeping Fungus if the other pets die - so on his own, it's pretty much useless. If you really really want to go for Creeping Fungus, consider another option that has a decent fighting chance outside of a single gimmick.

Yes, I know the idea is that you have Zomstrok as the cornerstone of the strategy, supporting both Moonlight/Fungus and Rot/Stampede combos - but don't you think you might be wanting to do too much? Right now the Zomstrok is THE KEY to the strategy and at the same time, very useless by himself; it's the link to both combos, but it's a weak link for the team as a whole. You'd probably be more succesful if you focused on one of the two, and supported it accordingly.

It is definitely a complex and possibly combo, but honestly, try it, and see for yourself. Even for PvE tamers, the sheer amount of swapping will just get you killed before you can finish the enemy team; where you could have run simpler strategies with better results.


yeah, it's probably too much then.. suggestions for a good moonlight team then? Again, all this info online is really out of date so it probably is no good as it's based on a meta from like 5 years ago or something! ha ha

A rough idea of a cool moonlight team and a rot team that could work these days would be cool though.. I like the idea of dreadful breath teams as well as I have a few of those pets. You know of where I can find info on these types of teams?

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Re: is S/S a must have for moon tears moon moon?

Postby Ash_knacksum » September 29th, 2016, 3:58 pm

what about like voodoo totem and 2 S/S hares? I'm sure that could be suitably annoying!? LoL. Or one hare and something else. I know willy has rot and a critter move, but is he that good?

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Re: is S/S a must have for moon tears moon moon?

Postby Vakeetah » September 30th, 2016, 9:42 am

I don't really look up teams online, but if I had to, I'd definitely check Discodoggy's http://pvppetbattles.com/ - even if only as inspiration. Some strategies can be surprising!

As for the Voodoo Dolls, they are definitely good for Rot/Stampede, while also providing Wild Magic to the mix. Back in the Celestial Tournament, I used a Sen'jin Fetish because of its stat distribution, but a Voodoo Figurine (or a Fetish Shaman if you have it) will be just as effective.

At the same time, Wild Magic has good synergy with Flame Breath which gives you a backup plan - just be mindful of Rot as you can make the enemy inadvertely resistant to it (Undead resists Dragonkin)

However, I'll also let you know that as far as stampeding strategies go, a Zandalari Anklerender or Ikky (with Black Claw) push an equally large amount of damage with less setup.

Lastly, as for Willy, he's definitely special, as he can support Rot on his own, and has Eyeblast to ensure speed advantage for Tongue Lash. Feels a bit weak, but well worth trying on your own.
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Re: is S/S a must have for moon tears moon moon?

Postby Gráinne » September 30th, 2016, 4:57 pm

Ash, SHTAHP! You're overthinking this. Overplanning. You're not trying to create a perfect strategy, and being evaluated on it. Individual PvP battles are no big deal. You will lose. At first. We all lose. Especially at first.

Also, any of the rest of you who are nervous about stepping foot into pet PvP. It really is nothing. Honestly.

Also, don't focus so much on building a perfect or especially imaginative team. Especially at first. If you watch some of Disco's videos, he goes "I feel like playing with X, now what would go with that, oh yeah, add this, and one of those" and he hops in the queue. Really good teams are formed after trial and error, and the experience that builds.

And imaginative teams aren't good for beginners. People tend to play with the meta teams. For you to understand how to play against them, you need to have played with them. When you're running an Imp/Teroclaw/Kid, what teams scare you? How did they beat you (if they did beat you)? That's how you learn.

Just hop in. Don't think you have to be all dressed up in your best synergies to attend the party. Nobody's going to be judging your pet gearscore.

If you like, think of it as market research instead. Focus on something else rather than whether you have the perfect team. Do 100 battles, and record who you come up against. I recorded my opposition for 400 battles during the Graves meta here http://eu.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/17289170474 - do the same for 100 battles now. You'll find a big difference in the cast of characters.

Do 100 battles now, and it will give you a much better feel for what works.

If you want something further, here's 10 teams from my list you could play 10 battles each with, just to record the results:

Disco's Rich Girls. One of the strongest teams I know. Use the Blind on the Sproutling against your opponent's opener or big hitter. Otherwise, just get those Nocturnal Strikes in during Darkness or Rain Dance.
S/S Nightshade Sproutling S/S - Lash, Call Darkness, Blinding Poison
Bone Serpent (pref H/H but it doesn't matter that much) - Bone Barrage, Call Darkness, Nocturnal Strike
P/P Junglebeak P/P - Peck, Rain Dance, Nocturnal Strike

A Meta Team. Haunt. Swap out the Haunted pet to suffer on the backline. Get your Imp's Immolation up and take a bit of damage, then retire your Imp to heal on the back line while the Teroclaw stalls with dodges and heals. Put Healing Ward back up and retire the Teroclaw to heal on the back line and start the cycle again.
Ghastly Kid - Infected Bite, Ethereal, Haunt
S/S Fiendish Imp - Burn, Immolation, Nether Gate
Teroclaw Hatchling - Alpha Strike, Dodge, Nature's Ward

Vergilioar's Equilibrium. viewtopic.php?f=3&t=14409
Ghastly Kid - Infected Bite, Ethereal, Haunt
S/S Fiendish Imp - Burn, Immolation, Nether Gate
S/S Nightshade Sproutling S/S - Lash, Nature's Ward, Blinding Poison

My Hulk Smash, which I made for a beginner. This one is win or lose on the basis that each individual pet does a metric ton of damage but has no avoidance or waiting potential. Just avoid having your squishy Whelpling walk into a meat grinder.
Bone Serpent (pref H/H but it doesn't matter that much) - Bone Barrage, Call Darkness, Nocturnal Strike
Iron Starlette (pref H/H but it doesn't matter that much) - Wind-Up, Powerball, Supercharge
Nexus Whelpling (pref P/P but it doesn't matter that much) - Tail Sweep, Mana Surge, Arcane Storm

Crabdance - a Clonedance (cyCLONE/rain DANCE) team. Drop the Cyclone first, immediately switch to Dancer, put up Rain Dance and use Steam Vent for strong Damage. The Crab is your tank, to come out at the end, or sacrifice him to get the Blighthawk an extra Consume Corpse in a long battle.
H/P or H/H Blighthawk - Infected Claw, Consume Corpse, Cyclone
Jademist Dancer - Steam Vent, Rain Dance, Acid Rain
Emperor Crab (pref P/P, but H/H works) Surge, Healing Wave, Shell Shield

Axedance - another Clonedance team, but instead of the Crab you have a glass cannon in the Axebeak Hatchling
H/P or H/H Blighthawk - Infected Claw, Consume Corpse, Cyclone
Jademist Dancer - Steam Vent, Rain Dance, Acid Rain
Axebeak Hatchling - Peck, Rain Dance, Nocturnal Strike

Eve's Team. Put up CoD and Haunt. Gnome puts up Turret, immediately Repairs, more Turret and Railgun. Idol is your tank and mitigation. Avoid Sandstorm when you have Turrets up :)
H/H Unborn Val'kyr - Shadow Shock, Curse of Doom, Haunt
Clockwork Gnome - Railgun, Repair, Turret
Anubisath Idol - Crush, Sandstorm, Deflection

Bunny Bucket
S/S Ore Eater - Acid Touch, Shell Armor, Body Slam
Teroclaw Hatchling - Alpha Strike, Dodge, Nature's Ward
Any Rabbit 357 speed - Flurry, Dodge, Burrow

All-Natural - I just liked playing this team during the Graves meta. There was satisfaction in taking down Graves/MPD combos with wild-caught pets. Not the strongest team, but nobody expects a moth to heal. :) You can use Whirlpool in the Crab's third slot for fun as a variant. Usually start with the Moth, if the opponent looks like starting with a fast pet.
P/S Flamering Moth - Alpha Strike, Healing Flame, Moth Dust
S/S Alpine Foxling - Flurry, Crouch, Dazzling Dance
P/P Emperor Crab - Surge, Healing Wave, Shell Shield

Rushing Wound. An all-out Bleed-'n-Stampede team. Can be tricky, but very satisfying when you get the big combos!
Ikky - Savage Talon, Black Claw, Flock
H/P Blighted Squirrel - Woodchipper, Crouch, Stampede
Snarly - Rip, Surge, Blood in the Water

Or pick any teams from Disco's site.

But do pick a team and hop in, and Just Do It!


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