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Jeremy Feasel - Why suddenly so hard?

Discuss pet battles, strategy and theorycrafting.
Valianya
 
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Jeremy Feasel - Why suddenly so hard?

Postby Valianya » August 9th, 2016, 3:32 am

I usually use a two pet strategy to carry a pet to level it up. However, this DMF I've found that the fight seems much harder now. Strategies that used to work consistently are now failing consistently.

Honky Tonk usually used to come in and use Lock On for the first round, giving the current pet a round of damage on him before his first attack. However; he now almost never uses Lock On right away, instead using Shock and Awe or Missile most of the time on his first round out. It seems very random what his first attack will be.

Infinite Whelp/MPD strat consistently fails with Infinite whelp dying several turns earlier than he used to, and MPD usually not making it halfway through Fezwick.

Emerald Proto Whelp/Lil' Bling strat also consistently fails now too.

As far as I can tell, the various pet battle changes did not affect the moves used in these strategies, so I'm not sure why they're failing consistently now.

Anyone know what's going on here? Stealth buff? Randomized turn set coding?

What are some 2 pet strategies for Jeremy that still work? This guy is a pain, especially since the Christoph strat I use still works fine.

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Quintessence
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Re: Jeremy Feasel - Why suddenly so hard?

Postby Quintessence » August 9th, 2016, 3:49 am

There was a short discussion on Jeremy Feasel's encounter (specifically Judgement) here: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=16062

Khorah noted a strat that seemed to work towards the end of the thread.
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Prettyheals
 
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Re: Jeremy Feasel - Why suddenly so hard?

Postby Prettyheals » August 9th, 2016, 9:32 am

I decided to make a trip to the Faire to see what all the commotion is about. I had always used the Mechanical Pandaren Dragonling, and the Darkmoon Tonk on this fight, with a carry pet to level. However, this strategy does not work like it used to. Jeremy's pets did not get a buff. I used this strategy twice, and it failed twice. The reason I believe is due to the Thunderbolt nerf. The first thing that Judgment does is apply the Darkmoon Curse (-25% attack damage, + 25% damage taken). This coupled with the nerf to Thunderbolt damage at -15% means that you really aren't doing as much damage to Honky Tonk and Fezwick. I ended both fights with Fezwick at 500 health, and both my main pets dead. I can't really say this strategy will work under conditions other than pure luck. The MPD is dying early, and the Darkmoon tonk gets destroyed by the Clobber, Smash combo from Fezwick. See fight log below. Maybe it is back to the drawing board here?

Round 1

MPD: Thunderbolt -162 Judgment, -244 Honky Tonk, -162 Fezwick
Judgment: Darkmoon Curse (-25% attack damage, +25% damage taken)

Round 2

MPD: Breath 391 damge
Judgment: Focused Beams -215

Round 3

MPD: Breath 290 damage
Judgment: Eyeblast -287

Round 4

MPD: Breath 547 damage
Judgment: Focused Beams -230

Round 5

Judgment: Focused Beams -287
MPD: Breath 397 damage (Judgment Dead)

Round 6

Honky Tonk: Locked On
MPD: Decoy

Round 7

Honky Tonk: Missle (blocked)
MPD: Thunderbolt -366 to Honky, -244 Fezwick

Round 8

MPD: Breath 351 damage
Honky Tonk: Shock and Awe (blocked)

Round 9

MPD: Breath 249
Honky Tonk: Locked on 706 damage (MPD Dies, Failsafe activates 280 health)

Round 10

MPD: Breath 260 damage
Honky Tonk: Locked On

Round 11

MPD: Breath 256
Honky Tonk: Locked on 706 damage (MPD Dead)

Round 12

Switch in Carry Pet, Switch to Darkmoon Tonk
Honky Tonk: Locked On

Round 13

Honky Tonk: Missle 369
DT: Missle 255 damage (Honky Dead, Failsafe 349 health)

Round 14

Honky Tonk: Locked On 706 damage
DT: Missle 360 damage (Honky Dead)

Round 15

Fezwick: Clobber (Stuns DT)

Round 16

Fezwick: Smash 423 damage

Round 17

Fezwick: Smash 260 damage (DT dead, Failsafe activates 325 health)

Round 18

Fezwick: Smash 369 (Darkmoon Tonk Dead)

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Re: Jeremy Feasel - Why suddenly so hard?

Postby Paladance » August 9th, 2016, 12:23 pm

Try to get rid of the first Thunderbolt and just get Judgment down ASAP instead. :)
There's also a certain chance to fit two Decoys if you start straight from it.

If Darkmoon Tonk still doesn't manage, try with a Reflective Draenei Micro Defender or a Mechanical Axebeak (duh, even a Blazing Firehawk: Fiery Quills, Shriek, Predatory Strike if Honky is still up!)

In the guides, Darkmoon Tonk is often a wild card for "anything that hits hard" where Chrominius is too mainstream or well, when you fight a beast. :)
Last edited by Paladance on August 13th, 2016, 12:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Jeremy Feasel - Why suddenly so hard?

Postby Valianya » August 9th, 2016, 3:16 pm

Just FYI, the Infinite Whelp/MPD strat I used to use did not use Thunderbolt. Which is why I am not sure why its consistently failing now, since none of the moves used, as far as I know, were nerfed with the Legion pre-patch.

This is the strat that used to work and now does not.

- Infinite Whelpling [P/P] (1,1,1)
- Mechanical Pandaren Dragonling [S/S] (1,1,2)
- Carry Pet

vs. Judgement

Tail Sweep x2
Healing Flame
Tail Sweep until Judgement dies

vs. Honky-Tonk

Early Advantage
Tail Sweep until Infinite Whelpling dies
Bring in Carry Pet
Bring in Mechanical Pandaren Dragonling
Breath

vs. Fezwick

Decoy
Bombing Run
Breath until Fezwick dies


Infinite Whelp was down to less than 300 hp by the time Judgement goes down - his tail sweep consistently doing only about 505 damage each time, though crits were slightly higher. (Due to magic racial, I'm not sure it can hit for higher in one strike?)

Now, if Honky Tonk would actually consistently do Lock on in his opening round, Infinite Whelp would be able to get that Early Advantage off. However; in the dozen+ tries using this strat, Honky Tonk only used Lock on 2-3 times at random and instead seemed to prefer Shock and Awe or just missile as an opening move. Either one will kill Infinite Whelp before it has a chance to use Early Advantage. And then second round it goes down before being able to use any more tail sweeps. MPD then has to take down Honky Tonk and Fezwick on its own.

Even with the rare occasion where Early Advantage goes off, MPD is still dying well before Fezwick is dead. It is taking quite a few breaths, that only do around 280 damage each, before Honky Tonk dies, even if Infinite Whelp gets in a hit with Early Advantage. Without Early Advantage, MPD dies to Honky unless using decoy, which means its not up for Fezwick.

I'm really not sure what is causing the change in difficulty.

I only succeeded once with this strat since the pre-patch, and only because my carry pet was high enough level, and effective enough, to finish off Fezwick with less than 100 hp left to spare.

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Auryona
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Re: Jeremy Feasel - Why suddenly so hard?

Postby Auryona » August 9th, 2016, 4:12 pm

I've continued to use MPD + Tonk + carry for Jeremy and have yet to lose, and the difference may be when I switch in a carry.

If you switch in carry during Honky Tonk you might end up eating an extra Lock On/Shock and Awe that will kill you, whereas switching in during Fezwick's starting rounds is almost always going to be less damage. Assuming people who use these two pets are following Prettyheals' strategy above, I usually do the following:

Prettyheals wrote:
Round 12

Switch in Carry Pet, Switch to Darkmoon Tonk
Honky Tonk: Locked On

Round 13

Honky Tonk: Missle 369
DT: Shock and Awe (this usually kills Honky)

Round 14

Switch in carry pet to eat the stun
Fezwick: Clobber (Stuns carry pet)

Round 15

Switch back to DT
Fezwick: Smash 423 damage

Round 16

Fezwick: Smash 260 damage
DT: Missile

Round 17

Fezwick: Smash 369
DT: Ion Cannon


Sometimes Fezwick needs two missiles or Honky Tonk needs one, but I've never had DT not been able to kill Fezwick.

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Re: Jeremy Feasel - Why suddenly so hard?

Postby Prettyheals » August 9th, 2016, 8:50 pm

Hmmm, I will have to give this a try. I have felt that some of the master tamers have seemed a little "off" lately. Someone else had mentioned that they weren't getting the Resilient buff applied correctly on the Whispering Pandaren Spirit a few days ago. I had something similar happen. My usual strategies are still working, just not as well as they used to. As others have said, these fights use pets that have not been affected by the 7.0 battle pet tuning, so why are we seeing differences? I am still puzzled as to why the Infinite Whelpling/MPD strategy is not working. It should still work.

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Re: Jeremy Feasel - Why suddenly so hard?

Postby Valianya » August 10th, 2016, 3:43 pm

So I put together parts of two strategies and came up with something that is consistently working against Jeremy.

Don't know if breeds matter, so I'll list it anyway.

Iron Starlette (P/P) (121)
Lil' Bling (121)
Carry, any level.

Start with Iron Star
1 - Wind Up
2 - Toxic Smoke until Judgement dies

Honky Tonk

3 - Wind Up
4 - Toxic Smoke (Star probably dies next turn)

Bring in Lil' Bling
5 - Extra Plating
6 - Smack That until Honky Tonk dies

Fezwick
7 - Bring in Carry pet to eat the stun
8 - Swap back to Lil 'Bling
9 - Extra Plating
10 - Make it Rain
11 - Smack that until Fezwick dies

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Re: Jeremy Feasel - Why suddenly so hard?

Postby Uduwudu » August 12th, 2016, 10:32 pm

Hi,

I have always had issues with this fight ... and I'm not sure I even want to try it again.

I did try (stubborn mule I am!), and it worked with Vali's suggestions.
Last edited by Uduwudu on August 13th, 2016, 1:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Jeremy Feasel - Why suddenly so hard?

Postby Ranok » August 13th, 2016, 12:27 am

I've been stubbornly using same MPD/DM Tonk/carry pet team even though isn't guaranteed like it used to be. Still having about 80% success.

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Prettyheals
 
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Re: Jeremy Feasel - Why suddenly so hard?

Postby Prettyheals » August 13th, 2016, 9:43 am

If you are determined to use the MPD/Darkmoon Tonk 2-pet combo, Auryona's change to the pet swap did allow the Darkmoon Tonk to finish the fight. This fight is more difficult now, but can still be beaten. Thanks for the advice!

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Re: Jeremy Feasel - Why suddenly so hard?

Postby Uduwudu » August 13th, 2016, 5:15 pm

Prettyheals wrote:If you are determined to use the MPD/Darkmoon Tonk 2-pet combo, Auryona's change to the pet swap did allow the Darkmoon Tonk to finish the fight. This fight is more difficult now, but can still be beaten. Thanks for the advice!


Like some other fights, in some ways I did not see some of these as a nerf, as much as a way to get people to pay attention to the fights and what the opponent did ... and I figured this out with the Pet Tracker add-on as it showed the spells that the opponent had, which made it easier to tell, that you had to save Dive/Burrow one more round, or two.

Some of the fights, specially the ones where we power level toons, have become no-brain'ers, and actually very boring ... I really thought that the Pandaren Water Spirit with two big guns was silly ... when the other three Pandaren Spirits are nearly worthless ... something escaped the design and someone got away with it, for a while.

However, I do think that as you study and think about what to use and WHEN (most important!!!), that the fights are actually OK, and still do'able. Just not as easy as before.

It's not hard to see this, and I have been, for example, leveling my 23-24 pets, and sure enough there were way too many critters and beasts, and they had tough times with flyers. And after 20 fights, you can not always beat them, but you know how to mitigate a lot of the damage much sooner ... things that we ignored. One example ... I now use the nuts a lot, with the squirrels and they are fast becoming a bunch of favorites.

So, in the end, it is more about our learning, than it is about our comfort zone. I'm OK with that ... was getting tired of all those strategies wasting the Unborn Val'kyr with Doom and Ascension, and over an out for the other pets! Now, you have to use the Unborn Val'kyr wisely, so you don't waste it, and in a couple of fights her Doom gets wiped ... so if you can't adjust, she won't help you.

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Re: Jeremy Feasel - Why suddenly so hard?

Postby Uduwudu » August 16th, 2016, 9:18 am

Prettyheals wrote:If you are determined to use the MPD/Darkmoon Tonk 2-pet combo, Auryona's change to the pet swap did allow the Darkmoon Tonk to finish the fight. This fight is more difficult now, but can still be beaten. Thanks for the advice!


On a similar situation, it took me something like 6 tries to get Skrillix down ... and the real issue was not him, but the P/P Bloodbeak after it, which really hurts things, as the two pets left you have have taken AoE damage, and their hit points are reduced. AND, in this fight, the important part is the part that the Zandalari Anklerender plays, when he does a 2nd leap, which in essence clears the "BLOCK", and allows the Hunting Party to be effective. Without that 2nd clearing of the blocks, the fight is not going to happen, and you might as well close it out and start again. The ZA will have not a whole lot of Hit Points at that time, but it has enough to do a great job on Skillix.

These are the kinds of small details that often we miss and pass up, figuring that our big gun will do the job anyway.

In many ways, this is the secret to Feasel's fight as well, in that you have to pay attention to the small details, and see what is coming, so you know what to do at that moment. Without that knowledge, you are relying on an uncertain ability of your pet, that could easily be countered by the opponent, that instead of taking 750 points damage, takes only 250 ... and now you have a hard time finishing him down.

In this sense, the Pet Battles of the game, is far more intelligent than the game itself, and its details are much better used, although it would be very hard to discuss details within a raid fight, since there would be so many of them, but as an individual fight, this is the one thing that most of us Pet Battlers learn well along the way. A tool like Pet Tracker that shows the spells the opponent uses, helps this a lot. Any other tool that shows that also would help.

I highly recommend that so you can see that big bump coming, and how to be ready for it. In Skrillix fight, you also need to be able to use the Shield, on Anubisath, when Bloodbeak flies up ... without it, the fight is over! AND, remember that Bloodbeak was (in this case) a BLUE and P/P ... meaning, the most damage! And you thought that Skrillix was the problem ... and he isn't.

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Re: Jeremy Feasel - Why suddenly so hard?

Postby Nikkip » August 16th, 2016, 3:30 pm

I don't 2 pet either one of them. I did ONE time for the achiev but never again. I used hazelnuttygames strat and it works well.
Nicole

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Re: Jeremy Feasel - Why suddenly so hard?

Postby Cluey » August 22nd, 2016, 12:33 pm

I noticed this was a little trickier but didn't think it warranted this many posts about it!
It's different because of the four round CD on [Eyeblast] from the patch changes.

I'm using Infinite Whelpling and Pet Bombling.
Start with the [Early Advantage], it does more damage than [Tail Sweep] because it's in two hits so the magic racial doesn't cap it. Then you use [Tail Sweep], heal while you've got the dragon racial, [Tail Sweep] again to kill it. You should have the dragon racial again and enough HP to survive whatever the Tonk uses first. If you get stunned you've probably lost, but it's always been a bit like that!
If you weren't stunned [Early Advantage] hits with the dragon racial, then [Tail Sweep] until you die.
Swap to the Pet Bombling, Attack with [Zap] until the monkey is under 722 (I think) HP and then [Explode] to finish him off. Yeah you'll eat the stun but it won't matter.

I only just saw this post so I can't go and try it to get you a round count, apart from getting stunned by [Shock and Awe] this is very repeatable.

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Re: Jeremy Feasel - Why suddenly so hard?

Postby Horpy » August 23rd, 2016, 12:45 pm

I think it's a bit harder because Judgment seems to consistently attack with Focused Beam instead of ineffectively debuffing over and over.

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Re: Jeremy Feasel - Why suddenly so hard?

Postby Paladance » October 2nd, 2016, 1:01 am

As it's up again :)
Could you check how does a Mechanical Pandaren Dragonling perform when 1) it starts straight from a Decoy, 2) doesn't cast Thunderbolt until Honky-Tonk comes in?

My results are, that most of the time the essential Eyeblast remains blocked. The other case isn't very nice, but that does account for all approaches, yup?

Thinking about a good team partner, I wonder about a fast pet with blinds. Maybe a Nightshade Sproutling for "oh crap" Tonk moments? Or something with Brittle Webbing against Fezwick. At least this is what I can recall from my first attempts :lol:
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Re: Jeremy Feasel - Why suddenly so hard?

Postby Klaital » October 2nd, 2016, 3:53 am

I always just used Personal World Destroyer and Magical Crawdad on Jeremy Feasel, that should still work, basically start with the destroyer, earthquake, repair, earthquake, switch to crawdad, wish, back to destroyer, earthquake, repair, earthquake. At this point both Judgment and Fezwick should be dead, then just spam metal fist against the tonk until world destroyer dies, and finish the tonk with crawdads surge.

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Re: Jeremy Feasel - Why suddenly so hard?

Postby Biscuit » October 4th, 2016, 2:59 am

Lil XT (1/1/2)
S/S Nightshade Sproutling (1/1/2)
lvl 1 carry pet

- Tantrum
- Repair
- Zap
- Tantrum
- Zap
(Judgement usually dies here)
- 1 or 2 Zaps
(Lil XT dies, bring in NSS)
- Fist of the Forest
- Nature's Ward
- 1 or 2 Lashes
(Tonk dies, swap in carry pet, eat the stun and swap NSS back in)
- Fist of the Forest
- Lash
(Fezwick dies)

20-22 rounds and somewhat RNG dependent.

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Re: Jeremy Feasel - Why suddenly so hard?

Postby Blizarmy » October 5th, 2016, 4:22 pm

I have a post on a similar subject but its mostly about how it affects the achive An Awfully Big Adventure.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=16263&p=129486#p129486

and my post on the forums I would love some help with!

http://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topi ... e=1#post-6


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