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EU MVP's post: "Doombird" for TToT and BoF

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EU MVP's post: "Doombird" for TToT and BoF

Postby Paladance » July 31st, 2016, 2:06 am

An EU green poster, @Nyari, claims that they can defeat Tiny Terrors of Tanaan and Beasts of Fable using two teams:
The famous "Howl-Bomb" strategy is gone, but I developed a new one, I call "Doombird", which can be used to defeat all "Tiny Terrors" and "Beats of Fable" with one team. You need "Unborn Val'kyr", "Ikky" and an "Emerald Proto-Whelp" for the "Tiny Terrors" and the "Unborn Val'kyr", "Ikky" and a "Moth" for the "Beasts of Fable".

Use the hyperlink for details.

While I used to have several doubts myself (like Dark Gazer and Gorespine and for some BoF Val'kyr is actually redundant), it needs to be shared, discussed and so on. :) Takin' a look on German forums, where it originated, would be also nice.
Last edited by Paladance on October 31st, 2016, 5:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: EU MVP's post: "Doombird" for TToT and BoF

Postby Prettyheals » July 31st, 2016, 8:03 am

Hmmm, I have my doubts as well. If you kill the terror quickly, and avoid taking tons of backline damage, you can kill their whole team with only two pets. I am unsure if the Unborn Val'kyr really adds anything to the equation. I can try it during my circuit today and report back. I have a massive stack of pet bandages lol! I have switched to using the Zandalari Anklerender, with Anubisath Idol and Emerald Proto Whelp for most fights in Tanaan. The Anklerender does get owned a fair amount, and I do have to restart some battles frequently (especially on Direflame and Netherfist). Ikky does work well on several of the Terrors (Tainted Maulclaw, Mirecroak, Defiled Earth), I haven't tried him on ALL of the terrors. Here's to hoping this strategy works!

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Re: EU MVP's post: "Doombird" for TToT and BoF

Postby Gráinne » July 31st, 2016, 8:56 am

I haven't tried it myself, but I don't see why Gorespine would be a problem? Dark Gazer is annoying, yes, but the stun is planned for in the strat.

Bleed & Stampede strats work on everything (except for Stitches Jr., who flat-out cheats!). Several variants are tried and tested, on big single targets, like
Call Lightning -> Make it Rain -> Inflation
(Rot) -> Woodchipper -> Stampede

The advantage of the Valk is that it can't get held up by roots, for example, with Ka'wi. The weakness I would suspect in Tanaan is that you're using two of your three on the big guy, leaving the EPW to face two empowered secondaries. Way back at the start of Tanaan, when I was trying two-pet strats on the Terror, I often found my third, which was usually an EPW or an Idol, unable to face two Fen Crabs, which always seemed to be Blue. Hence the single-Anklerender approach.

It is really clever to have devised such an efficient set of strategies for so many battles around just two pets (+Moth + EPW), though, and I admire the craftsmanship of it. :)

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Re: EU MVP's post: "Doombird" for TToT and BoF

Postby Paladance » July 31st, 2016, 9:21 am

Gráinne wrote:I haven't tried it myself, but I don't see why Gorespine would be a problem?

Spiked Skin (attacker is damaged)

And Dark Gazer deals magic damage that isn't nice for Ikky.

I'm not gonna say the whole idea is bad (was using Ikky against Gorespine aswell!). I just mean that taking it as 100% "nuff said" is an exaggeration, with examples provided by both of you.
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Re: EU MVP's post: "Doombird" for TToT and BoF

Postby GrosBonda » July 31st, 2016, 9:48 am

Hello,

I test them all the 15 "Tiny terrors" for the purpose of try with the Ikky team , and while it work pretty well , some of them i do prefer the team i use generally
Zandalari Anklerender + Celestial Dragon + Anubisath Idol
or
Zandalari Anklerender + Celestial Dragon + Emerald Proto-Whelp

BTW : 15 Fel-Touched Pet Supplies and 18 Pet Charm..... pretty drastic drop ofdrop rate :roll:

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Re: EU MVP's post: "Doombird" for TToT and BoF

Postby Prettyheals » July 31st, 2016, 10:58 am

I tried all 15 Tanaan Terrors using the "Doombird" Strategy. My old strats were solid. However, I did not have one team that beat every terror. I kind of mixed it up to beat them easily in one try. I admire this guy for trying to work towards a replacement for Howl Bomb in Tanaan. For me, his Doombird method worked about 75% of the time. Which isn't really an improvement over what I was doing before. When it failed, it failed abysmally. It worked really well on Netherfist. He has always been a PITA for me. I used Stitched Pup on him in the past, and then just restarted if he landed Haymaker. Here using the H/H Val'kyr, she was able to absorb his Haymaker, and still complete Curse of Doom and Haunt no problem. I will probably use this strat on Netherfist from now on! :D I posted my Success/Fail rate below. I added my notes for the failures.

Defiled Earth: Success
Direflame: Success
Skrillix: Success
Netherfist: Success
Vileblood of Draenor: Fail, but ultimate win (see notes if interested)
Dreadwalker: Fail, but ultimate win
Corrupted Thundertail: Success
Felfly: Success
Tainted Maulclaw: Fail, so much Fail! Strat didn't work, and after 3 times went back to old strat.
Mirecroak: Doesn't use Val'kyr here, so essentially the same as my old strat...
Chaos Pup: Success
Bleakclaw: Fail, I tried 2x and gave up. Bleackclaw kills Ikky and Val'kyr and had 1437 health with only Emerald Proto Whelp left...
Felsworn Sentry: Success
Cursed Spirit: Success

Notes:

Vileblood of Draenor

Unborn Val'kyr: -> Curse of Doom -> Haunt -> "Dead"
Ikky: (@832 health) -> Black Claw (315 health) -> DEAD
Emerald Proto Whelp: -> Emerald Presence -> Emerald Bite -> Emerald Dream -> Emerald Bite -> Emerald Bite, Vileblood Dead.
I finished off the backline pets with the Emerald Proto Whelp. My previous strategy was to use an H/H Scourged Whelpling here who can solo Vileblood just by tail whipping. I then have 2 other pets to deal with Vileblood's backline pets.

Dreadwalker

Ikky: Black Claw -> Flock x 3, Dreadwalker NOT dead...Ikky took him to about 200 health before dying
Unborn Val'kyr: Shadow Shock, Dreadwalker dies 1st time, -> Shadow Shock -> Shadow Shock Dreadwalker dead

I ultimately won.

Tainted Maulclaw

Unborn Val'kyr: Curse of Doom -> Haunt (Undead damage weak against Aquatic)
Ikky (1044 health): Black Claw -> Flock 2 rounds, CoD kills crab
Emerald Proto Whelp: Emerald Presence -> Emerald Dream -> Dead (H/H rare crab kills me with Dive mid Dream)
Unborn Val'kyr: Curse of Doom -> Shadow Shock -> Shadow Shock -> Shadow Shock -> Unborn Val'kyr dead

I tried this strat 3 more times, all failed. The backline H/H rare crab just decimated by team. I switched back to my old strategy which is Ikky (Black Claw, Flock), Anubisath Idol (1,1,1), Emerald Proto Whelp (2,2,2) and beat him with just Ikky and the Idol. This just doesn't work for me here. I could see it working if none of the backline pets were aquatic.

Bleakclaw

Unborn Val'kyr: Curse of Doom -> Pass -> Haunt
Ikky (1044 health): Black Claw (184 health) -> Ikky dead before flock cast

Curse of Doom went off and took Bleakclaw to 1437 health. I just gave up here. There was no way I was killing all three pets with my Emerald Whelp at half health. I switched to my old strat (Nexus Whelpling, Chrominius, Emerald Proto Whelp).
Last edited by Prettyheals on July 31st, 2016, 5:05 pm, edited 6 times in total.

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Re: EU MVP's post: "Doombird" for TToT and BoF

Postby GrosBonda » July 31st, 2016, 11:15 am

Prettyheals wrote:Dreadwalker

Unborn Val'kyr: Curse of Doom -> Haunt
Ikky: Black Claw -> Flock x 3, Dreadwalker NOT dead...Ikky took him to about 200 health before dying
Unborn Val'kyr: Shadow Shock, Dreadwalker dies 1st time, -> Shadow Shock -> Shadow Shock Dreadwalker dead

I ultimately won here by quick thinking, but his posted strat does not work as intended. Not even close.

You should start with Ikky here and not Val.... as posted in his start :D
1. Ikky (1,1,1)
2. Unborn Val'kyr (2,2,1)
3. Emerald Proto-Whelp (2,2,2)
vs. Dreadwalker
-Black Claw > Flock until Ikky dies
-Unborn Val'kyr wechselt ein (switch to Val)
-Shadow Slash
vs. Tanaan Pets
-Curse of Doom > Shadow Slash until Unborn Val'kyr dies
-switch to Proto-Whelp
-keep Emerald Presence active, heal up with Emerald Dream and use Emerald Bite otherwise


work pretty well for me tho

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Re: EU MVP's post: "Doombird" for TToT and BoF

Postby Prettyheals » July 31st, 2016, 11:42 am

You should start with Ikky here and not Val.... as posted in his start :D


I actually did use Ikky first. I misread my notes when I posted the first time. My notes said that Ikky took Dreadwalker to about 200. I assumed when I re-read it that I had used Unborn Val'kyr first as he had posted to do on the previous Terrors. I used Ikky with Black Claw and Flock and then Unborn Val'kyr comes in and finishes him off. If you see my notes, it does work for me the first try. I just don't think it works that well, and the Val'kyr barely finished off the Dreadwalker with 18 health left. I could easily see this going sideways with bad RNG. I think the real issue here is the same issue that makes killing the Terrors difficult in the first place. If you are unlucky and get a rare quality, strong backline team with one of the Terrors (i.e. rare blue H/H or P/P Crab), then his "Doombird" strategy may fail, because you only have one pet left in the fight. A team that uses one pet to kill the terror, and that has two strong defensive pets (such as Anubisath Idol and Emerald Proto Whelp) to fight the Terror's backline pets is just better and less likely to fail (in my opinion).
Last edited by Prettyheals on July 31st, 2016, 11:58 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: EU MVP's post: "Doombird" for TToT and BoF

Postby Paladance » July 31st, 2016, 11:58 am

Prettyheals wrote:I actually did use Ikky first. I misread my notes when I posted the first time. My notes said that Ikky took Dreadwalker to about 200. I assumed when I re-read it that I had used Unborn Val'kyr first as he had posted to do on the previous Terrors. I used Ikky with Black Claw and Flock and then Unborn Val'kyr comes in and finishes him off. If you see my notes it does work for me the first try. I just don't think it works that well, and the Val'kyr barely finished off the Dreadwalker with 18 health left. I could easily see this going sideways with bad RNG.


For the comparison: I actually use Val'kyr for five Terrors with speed less than 325, but in a bit different manner. ^^
(throw a DoT [Woodchipper] before Stampede if you aren't sure)

By the way, the base of DoomX actually originated back in MoP to defeat Nitun, perhaps within a forgotten Wowhead comment. =)
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Re: EU MVP's post: "Doombird" for TToT and BoF

Postby Prettyheals » July 31st, 2016, 3:06 pm

Just to be thorough, I tried out the "Doombird" on the Beasts of Fable. That would be a team of Unborn Val'kyr, Ikky, and a Moth. The original poster Nyari did not specify a moth, I chose a P/P Yellow Moth. This team works really well here. I had indvidual strats for every one of these Beasts of Fable, and frankly it just took a long time to do and was kind of a pain. I had stopped doing the Fable quests because I am swimming in Lesser Pet treats, and all my pets are rare at the moment. This is an easy way to get these done if you are still doing the Beasts of Fable for pet drops or pet loot. With a strong moth on the team, it is easy to re-focus and finish if the strategy gets thrown off due to an early death. Thanks to the original poster for sharing this strategy with us. See notes below...

Ka'wi: Success
Nitun: Success
Lucky Yi: Success
No-No: Success (No-No threw up a dam during my third flock and Ikky died with No-No at 427 health. Moth finished No-No with Moth Dust)
Dos-Ryga: Success Eventually... (posted strat failed as outlined, Whirlpool killed Ikky after the 1st round of flock, with Dos-Ryga at 1069 health, Moth killed Dos-Ryga with Moth Dust and Alpha Strike).
Kafi: Success
Ti'un: Success Eventually... (The posted strat did not work as outlined. Ikky died from Pump before casting Flock. Moth killed Ti'un with Moth Dust, then a couple Alpha Strikes)
Gorespine: Success
Greyhoof: Success
Skitterer Xi'a: Success

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Re: EU MVP's post: "Doombird" for TToT and BoF

Postby Prettyheals » July 31st, 2016, 4:53 pm

Thanks for all the help Nyari. I just wanted to say that I really appreciate the amount of work that went into theorizing and testing these strategies. I have limited aptitude for coming up with strategies on my own, and I am thankful for people that post! I hope I didn't sound too critical in my first post. I just wanted to give fair feedback for anyone who wanted to try out this new team. I ran back through Tanaan and did the Terrors a second time on an alt. I had a much better time of it (see comments below). I would say my first run could be a worst case scenario for failure, and my second run would be more typical. I did have a one failure, but on a different Terror than last time. I chalked it up to bad luck. Again, this strategy for Netherfist is pure genius! I will stick with it. It seems to work more often than it fails. This will save me a ton of time and Battle Pet Bandages.

Defiled Earth: Success
Direflame: Success
Dark Gazer: Success
Skrillix: Success
Netherfist: Success
Vile Blood of Draenor: Success
Dreadwalker: Success
Corrupted Thundertail: Success
Felfly: Success
Tainted Maulclaw: Success (no rare crab this time :D )
Mirecroak: Success
Chaos Pup: Fail (strat worked for Pup, Ikky killed pup and then died. Backline Cerulean Moth killed my Emerald Proto Whelp with Counterspell, then Call Lightning. I restarted and it worked fine the second time.)
Bleakclaw: Success
Felsworn Sentry: Success
Cursed Spirit: Success

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Re: EU MVP's post: "Doombird" for TToT and BoF

Postby Gráinne » July 31st, 2016, 5:03 pm

Unlike Howlbomb, this is clearly not a near-100% universal strat; just a really economically optimised one. It reminds me, fondly, of my starting days, when I had a small roster and was learning about buffs and debuffs, and trying out all kind of Heath-Robinson contrivances. :)

[Er, devs, if you're listening, that means you don't have to nerf it, k? :P]

I'm just picking out a couple that people have mentioned, to see for myself.

Gorespine killed me first time. He Scratched twice, one crit, so my Valk went bye-bye to zero health and wasn't able to Haunt. Second time, no crits and he used Rip on Round 2, so I got the Haunt off, and with the Black Claw on, Spiked Skin wasn't enough to save him. I haven't done the numbers, but ballpark I'm thinking you need to avoid crits on three rounds, which would make it about an 80%-85% strat.

Back in a few with more attempt reports....

Tainted Maulclaw. I'm on 10 kills now without losing one. His Fel Corruption does 313, reducing Ikky to 1006. In all fights so far, he has done Shell Shield followed by Infected Claw. Without crits, Ikky does 423 on the first Flock, followed by 741 on each of the other two rounds, and that's more than the Maulclaw's 1808.. Infected Claw does 241-447. If it crits, or hits high, above 346, Ikky loses his racial and so is exposed to two attacks in a row. This has happened twice in my 10 kills. However, his last round needs to also hit high, or perhaps even crit, to kill Ikky before the last Flock. So I would guess at 85%+ for this strat.

Wait. Nyari's posted strat is
Tainted Maulclaw
1. Ikky (1,1,1)
2. Unborn Val'kyr (2,2,1)
3. Emerald Proto-Whelp (2,2,2)

vs. Tainted Maulclaw
-Black Claw > Flock
vs. Tanaan Pets
-Savage Talon until Ikky dies
-switch to Proto-Whelp
-keep Emerald Presence active, heal up with Emerald Dream and use Emerald Bite otherwise


Whereas Prettyheals posted attempts with a DIFFERENT strat. I think Prettyheals was just looking at the wrong strat? Easy to make that mistake in a long list.

Prettyheals wrote:Tainted Maulclaw

Unborn Val'kyr: Curse of Doom -> Haunt (Undead damage weak against Aquatic)
Ikky (1044 health): Black Claw -> Flock 2 rounds, CoD kills crab
Emerald Proto Whelp: Emerald Presence -> Emerald Dream -> Dead (H/H rare crab kills me with Dive mid Dream)
Unborn Val'kyr: Curse of Doom -> Shadow Shock -> Shadow Shock -> Shadow Shock -> Unborn Val'kyr dead

I tried this strat 3 more times, all failed. The backline H/H rare crab just decimated by team. I switched back to my old strategy which is Ikky (Black Claw, Flock), Anubisath Idol (1,1,1), Emerald Proto Whelp (2,2,2) and beat him with just Ikky and the Idol. This just doesn't work for me here. I could see it working if none of the backline pets were aquatic.


Bleakclaw. It's not possible, arithmetically, for Bleakclaw to kill even a B/B Valk before it Haunts, even with a double crit and high-hitting Liftoff, (2*275 + 2*393 < 2562) so that bit is 100% guaranteed. Now Ikky enters with 1044 hp, so needs to be hit for 385 to lose his racial. Savage Talon is 211-393. Chance of losing racial maybe 8%? Mostly doesn't, and does 282 damage in the first Flock, without crits. The CoD with Shattered Defenses does 1141 and the Haunt does 439, and that's all she wrote for Bleakclaw. I'd rate that strat 90%+

Of course, with all of these, you can run into two tough empowered backup pets. I realise I derped badly this morning when I wrote
Gráinne wrote:The weakness I would suspect in Tanaan is that you're using two of your three on the big guy, leaving the EPW to face two empowered secondaries.

forgetting that the Valk is back to life to help sweep up. That's a huge plus for this team!

Dreadwalker hit me with a Fel Corruption crit the first time. Ouch, that hurt! However, the strat worked correctly the next three times. The arithmetic of the Valk finishing off Dreadwalker seems close, but solid. After that, it's down to the EPW surviving long enough for its Dream to restore its health, after taking two hits on the back line. I felt I had a bit less slack in this one after taking out the lead, but I'd still rate it a comfortable 75%.
Last edited by Gráinne on July 31st, 2016, 6:53 pm, edited 8 times in total.

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Re: EU MVP's post: "Doombird" for TToT and BoF

Postby Azaelia » July 31st, 2016, 5:39 pm

I just read this (Been at work all day as usual :P) and thought I would go and test it out, but it seems I've been beaten by a few of you, good job hehe.

Well it might not be foolproof, but it is a pretty nice start of a short list of pets that new collectors can start working on levelling to max if they want to get involved in this which is always a nice thing.

If anyone else comes up with any other strategies please feel free to share them on the site and give people a hand :)
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Re: EU MVP's post: "Doombird" for TToT and BoF

Postby GrosBonda » July 31st, 2016, 6:05 pm

Nya wrote:
just a really economically optimised one


Exactly ;)

Of course there are faster and safer strategies for most of the legendary pets (like I said, I prefer other strategies for myself), but as a beginner with a small roster of pets, it's nice to have such strategies.. and.. they aren't so "bad", aren't they? :?


actually it was fun testing something else.
We all probably have our own little strat i am sure.... but , this change from the routine and i love test new stuff

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Re: EU MVP's post: "Doombird" for TToT and BoF

Postby Gráinne » July 31st, 2016, 6:56 pm

I've updated my post with the other cases I tested.

Thanks to Nyari for the strats, and to Prettyheals for pointing up the ones most worth looking at. ;)

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Re: EU MVP's post: "Doombird" for TToT and BoF

Postby Paladance » August 1st, 2016, 2:34 am

Oh hi. :) Sorry if I sounded bitter. Sometimes I prefer to moan myself than let anyone else do that first.
And now I can't even add anything nice that the others haven't already said! :lol:

I still have some blasphemous thoughts. Like what if you use a Creepy Crate/Ghastly Kid dependably on the original ability weight. =P

OT (EDIT: That's specifically to Gráinne's post, just couldn't fit the quote): Doesn't Bleakclaw have the same weakness as Felfly? Because the second one can be left to Chrominius.

Too bad that Xu-Fu is busy fighting spambots. :P
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